UAL Merger Comte Msg

[catIIIc]

Exactly we are a merger of equals that is all, this talk about who is better financially is just futile and takes away from the big picture of the joint contract.

 

[flyguppy]

Or to paraphrase, "pilots currently furloughed from a dying company will not be able to steal the careers from pilots currently employed at a healthy one." At least that's how I interpret that, here's hoping the arbitrator does too.

United was/is not "dying".

You can keep telling yourself that, but it is not true.

Tilton was "rightsizing" (his words) the company over the last 8 years to make this merger happen. This is his end game. He was cutting, shrinking, getting United all prettied up for the prom.

But, I'm sure there are many out there that think CAL "saved" United airlines, and that should somehow be considered during an integration.

Total B.S.

 

[flyguppy]

I got go with you on this one. I think you are exactly right except we may see a positive advancement on senority for the CAL pilots of 2-5%. I see all A320's being parked in the forseeable future and more orders for the 737-800/900er. All BA fleet with fences around the 747 ofr 5-10 years and 787 for the same.

You may see a 2-5% jump for those near the bottom of the list, but I don't think you will see that at the top.

We're essentially talking about a widebody airline merging with a narrowbody airline. The fleet numbers don't lie. So, who do you think the arbiter will look at as "bringing more to the table"?

And again, save the whole "but United was dying" B.S. The only reason United has been shrinking and cutting was because Tilton has wanted this merger since he got here. All of his actions (cuts, furloughs, shrink) over the past 8 years was to make this day happen.

 

[Ex737Driver]

You may see a 2-5% jump for those near the bottom of the list, but I don't think you will see that at the top.

We're essentially talking about a widebody airline merging with a narrowbody airline. The fleet numbers don't lie. So, who do you think the arbiter will look at as "bringing more to the table"?

And again, save the whole "but United was dying" B.S. The only reason United has been shrinking and cutting was because Tilton has wanted this merger since he got here. All of his actions (cuts, furloughs, shrink) over the past 8 years was to make this day happen.

Never claimed UAL was dying. Another poster. I don't think either that once you get into the top 25% that their won't be mostly relative and DOH combined but "bringing more to the table" is irrelevant. UAL does have a stronger DOH in their list than CAL but carear expectations at CAL IMHO will outweigh that to some degree, allowing for the 2-5% bump.

 

[flyguppy]

Never claimed UAL was dying. Another poster. I don't think either that once you get into the top 25% that their won't be mostly relative and DOH combined but "bringing more to the table" is irrelevant. UAL does have a stronger DOH in their list than CAL but carear expectations at CAL IMHO will outweigh that to some degree, allowing for the 2-5% bump.

IMO, what is brought to the table (widebody Captain seats) has a DIRECT correlation to career expectations.

 

[SWA/FO]

Really every airline is dying, at some point.

 

[Flyforyou]

Republic CEO Bryan Bedford is sitting there hoping that we don't and management will use United scope so he can come in an steal more mainline jobs. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100505-712727.html?mod=WSJ_Deals_LEFTLatestHeadlines we need to stand together as a unified pilot group and tighten scope or at the very least maintain Continental scope. We need a JCBA.

As stated, unless we stand up as a group of ALPA pilots and show some brass to get a good JCBA with proper scope; all of the +- 2%, fences, etc..., none of it will matter.

 

[sleeves]

Tilton has wanted this merger since he got here. All of his actions (cuts, furloughs, shrink) over the past 8 years was to make this day happen.

UAL wants this merger so bad then there is no reason for me to give up my (CAL) scope. He is the one that wants it let him give up his BS outsourcing!! Burn it down otherwise.

 

[bluechunks]

UAL wants this merger so bad then there is no reason for me to give up my (CAL) scope. He is the one that wants it let him give up his BS outsourcing!! Burn it down otherwise.

Can't disagree with that. Scope is the #1 issue going forward....both domestic and international.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

The two MEC statements are vastly different between the UAL MEC and the CAL MEC.

UAL MEC communications primary topics are concerned with defending its seniority list. CAL MEC communications topic sentences are more concerned with a viable company. CAL MEC #1 concern is a viable company with its pilots the #3 priority. CAL will sell SCOPE for a CAL retirement only benefit.

The CAL MEC is a management tool verse a pilot group instrument. The CAL MEC will sell out both companies for some type of specific personal gain of an individual or small demographic group.

 

[seanoldd]

IMO, what is brought to the table (widebody Captain seats) has a DIRECT correlation to career expectations.

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

 

[Fly2AK]

UAL wants this merger so bad then there is no reason for me to give up my (CAL) scope. He is the one that wants it let him give up his BS outsourcing!! Burn it down otherwise.

I'm with ya, scope is #1 priority!! If everyone can focus on these core issues the rest will work themselves out.

 

[Fly2AK]

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

Isn't it time to stop bickering amongst ourselves and work together so what 159 vs 169 those numbers will be irrelevent. I make 146 an hour on a 737-800 as an FO and that is first year pay, you want to compare rates and strive for a goal then lets work towards a common goal a JCBA. Right now airline management has walked all over the pilot groups because of this kind of petty crap, like I said who cares who's dad can beat up who, stop acting like children and for once in your career work as a unified voice. I am currently working for a new airline over seas and making a lot more than the US carriers are paying. I want to make it back to United new or old one day but it would be nice if we didn't follow in the shoes of US Airways/AWA and actually lead by example! Everyone need to get off their high horse and recapture our careers and this is the opportunity and time to do it! Let me just add to your statistic,

B777 Capt UAL 190
B777 Capt CAL 193
B777 Capt DAL 209

Now would you rather stick with CAL pay or have completely new rates using DAL as a foundation in which to build on? Seems pretty simple to me!

 

[eaglesview]

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

UAL B fund 16% If your going to through numbers out put out the whole picture.

Like it or not we are about to be one company. Our management would like nothing more than to see this bickering going on. I hope we are smarter than that.

 

[seanoldd]

Isn't it time to stop bickering amongst ourselves and work together so what 159 vs 169 those numbers will be irrelevent. I make 146 an hour on a 737-800 as an FO and that is first year pay, you want to compare rates and strive for a goal then lets work towards a common goal a JCBA. Right now airline management has walked all over the pilot groups because of this kind of petty crap, like I said who cares who's dad can beat up who, stop acting like children and for once in your career work as a unified voice. I am currently working for a new airline over seas and making a lot more than the US carriers are paying. I want to make it back to United new or old one day but it would be nice if we didn't follow in the shoes of US Airways/AWA and actually lead by example! Everyone need to get off their high horse and recapture our careers and this is the opportunity and time to do it! Let me just add to your statistic,

B777 Capt UAL 190
B777 Capt CAL 193
B777 Capt DAL 209

Now would you rather stick with CAL pay or have completely new rates using DAL as a foundation in which to build on? Seems pretty simple to me!

I agree. I take it back

 

[tomgoodman]

A Mooooot point

Really every airline is dying, at some point.

Unfortunately, it does appear that most of the herd has stampeded over a cliff, with each cow vigorously flapping its hooves and tail in an effort to hit the ground last.

 

[eaglesview]

Unfortunately, it does appear that most of the herd has stampeded over a cliff, with each cow vigorously flapping its hooves and tail in an effort to hit the ground last.

Interesting mental picture.

 

[Fly2AK]

All I hope is that we can all work together and try to improve ALL our lives. We have been beat up for the last decade and it is time for us to push the lines back not just hold the line we need to recapture lost ground and we can only do this together! I know I sound like a broken record but I hope we can all stop the bickering and work together as a unified pilot group! See you when I return from the desert!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

STOP THE ARGUING NOW!!! Let's take back....TOGETHER! Only United will we win a great contract stay divided we will lose out on perhaps the biggest opportunity in recent decades.

 

[DB Cooper]

Don't worry guys. I'm sure the respective MEC's and Merger committee's don't read these boards and are staying level headed.

DB