UAL Merger Comte Msg

[seanoldd]

IMO, what is brought to the table (widebody Captain seats) has a DIRECT correlation to career expectations.

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

 

[Fly2AK]

UAL wants this merger so bad then there is no reason for me to give up my (CAL) scope. He is the one that wants it let him give up his BS outsourcing!! Burn it down otherwise.

I'm with ya, scope is #1 priority!! If everyone can focus on these core issues the rest will work themselves out.

 

[Fly2AK]

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

Isn't it time to stop bickering amongst ourselves and work together so what 159 vs 169 those numbers will be irrelevent. I make 146 an hour on a 737-800 as an FO and that is first year pay, you want to compare rates and strive for a goal then lets work towards a common goal a JCBA. Right now airline management has walked all over the pilot groups because of this kind of petty crap, like I said who cares who's dad can beat up who, stop acting like children and for once in your career work as a unified voice. I am currently working for a new airline over seas and making a lot more than the US carriers are paying. I want to make it back to United new or old one day but it would be nice if we didn't follow in the shoes of US Airways/AWA and actually lead by example! Everyone need to get off their high horse and recapture our careers and this is the opportunity and time to do it! Let me just add to your statistic,

B777 Capt UAL 190
B777 Capt CAL 193
B777 Capt DAL 209

Now would you rather stick with CAL pay or have completely new rates using DAL as a foundation in which to build on? Seems pretty simple to me!

 

[eaglesview]

From APC

UAL 12 year 767 CA = $159
CAL 12 year 737-800 CA = $169

I don't see the correlation

UAL B fund 16% If your going to through numbers out put out the whole picture.

Like it or not we are about to be one company. Our management would like nothing more than to see this bickering going on. I hope we are smarter than that.

 

[seanoldd]

Isn't it time to stop bickering amongst ourselves and work together so what 159 vs 169 those numbers will be irrelevent. I make 146 an hour on a 737-800 as an FO and that is first year pay, you want to compare rates and strive for a goal then lets work towards a common goal a JCBA. Right now airline management has walked all over the pilot groups because of this kind of petty crap, like I said who cares who's dad can beat up who, stop acting like children and for once in your career work as a unified voice. I am currently working for a new airline over seas and making a lot more than the US carriers are paying. I want to make it back to United new or old one day but it would be nice if we didn't follow in the shoes of US Airways/AWA and actually lead by example! Everyone need to get off their high horse and recapture our careers and this is the opportunity and time to do it! Let me just add to your statistic,

B777 Capt UAL 190
B777 Capt CAL 193
B777 Capt DAL 209

Now would you rather stick with CAL pay or have completely new rates using DAL as a foundation in which to build on? Seems pretty simple to me!

I agree. I take it back

 

[tomgoodman]

A Mooooot point

Really every airline is dying, at some point.

Unfortunately, it does appear that most of the herd has stampeded over a cliff, with each cow vigorously flapping its hooves and tail in an effort to hit the ground last.

 

[eaglesview]

Unfortunately, it does appear that most of the herd has stampeded over a cliff, with each cow vigorously flapping its hooves and tail in an effort to hit the ground last.

Interesting mental picture.

 

[Fly2AK]

All I hope is that we can all work together and try to improve ALL our lives. We have been beat up for the last decade and it is time for us to push the lines back not just hold the line we need to recapture lost ground and we can only do this together! I know I sound like a broken record but I hope we can all stop the bickering and work together as a unified pilot group! See you when I return from the desert!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

STOP THE ARGUING NOW!!! Let's take back....TOGETHER! Only United will we win a great contract stay divided we will lose out on perhaps the biggest opportunity in recent decades.

 

[DB Cooper]

Don't worry guys. I'm sure the respective MEC's and Merger committee's don't read these boards and are staying level headed.

DB

 

[dcfu69]

What are the opinions about scope? Do you guys think CAL scope will remain or will UAL? I hope CAL scope stays with the merger

 

[Deerkiller]

What are the opinions about scope? Do you guys think CAL scope will remain or will UAL? I hope CAL scope stays with the merger

My opinion is they had better figure out a way to operate w/o 70 seaters w/ "Express" on the side. I've got no problem w/ them if they only say "United."

 

[densoo]

What are the opinions about scope? Do you guys think CAL scope will remain or will UAL? I hope CAL scope stays with the merger

If the past is any indicator, it'll go down in the first round. 274 RJs early in the decade kept 2,000 pilots off the mainline list then, infinite 70-seat Q400s are doing that now, so it seems to be a bit of moot point anyway.

Scope affects the bottom of the list in the short term (note 1500 furloughed at UAL) and they have never taken care of the bottom of the list. No medical, five year pay scales, reserve rules, are about the worst in the industry. Open time pickup and vacation waive keep 147 guys off the property each and every day.

If they get a hint of a whiff of a scent that they're going to lose retirement benefits as was the case in C'02 (or lose the lump sum option), or if they're offered an immediate payout of the A-Plan in exchange for scope, it'll go down like a tased baseball fan.

 

[rumrunner300]

Or to paraphrase, "pilots currently furloughed from a dying company will not be able to steal the careers from pilots currently employed at a healthy one." At least that's how I interpret that, here's hoping the arbitrator does too.

I agreed with you right up until GT flat out admitted that UAL was "rightsized" for a merger with the permissible inference being that the parking of the 737's at United was done for no other reason than to facilitate that merger.

I get it, bottom of one, bottom of the new one; I still agree with that premise. However, if it comes down to a tiebreaker, or giving a guy a boost, I want the fact that the United guys bore the brunt of it to be recognized.

If you are unable or unwilling to at least acknowledge the legitimacy of the argument, at least keep your mouth shut. However, you are of course permitted to forward a non-circular argument in favor of your position in the interest of intelligent discourse.

rr

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

... giving a guy a boost, I want the fact that the United guys bore the brunt of it to be recognized...

rr

By "brunt of it" - do you mean the brunt of Tilton?
and by "boost" - do you mean give a United guy a boost to make up for Tilton's incompetence.

And isn't "boosting" United, stepping on Continental's "Career Expectations"?

 

[eaglesview]

Reality check... If you took the bottom of the UAL list including the fourloughies, and the bottom of the CO list again including the fouloughie's, and swapped them. (CO guys are now UAL and visa versa) My guess is 90% of the individual opinions would reverse as well. What does this say?? To much empotion involved, just human nature.

 

[saabservant]

I'm ten from the bottom on the furlough list at ual, and no, I would not expect to gain at the expense of any CO pilot.
The only people who stole my career were that SOB Tilton, and the Flt. OPS Mgmt.
personnel who knew they were going to retire aircraft a year before they hired us to get them through the summer schedule. I worked at Mesaba before ual, so my experience tells me it is not beyond these people...
What a chump I was, believing the hiring process and the interview....

I hope to resume flying for ual someday, it was great and the Captains were first class.... but it won't be for at least five years. Better would be the ability to say "no" to these greedy pigs.

I'd put my cards on Capt. Morse and the negotiators to get a fair integration for everyone. But greed is not exclusive to the boardroom, is it? Some pilot group will try to take advantage....

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm really surprised a USAir Eastie hasn't chimed in and suggested demanding DOH only, since that tactic worked out so well for them....

If anything, you gotta give the Easties credit for showing what NOT to do...

 

[pilotgolfer]

If anything, you gotta give the Easties credit for showing what NOT to do...

Or like my sim instructor always says..."you're not completely worthless. You are always good for a bad example."

 

[Fly2AK]

I'm ten from the bottom on the furlough list at ual, and no, I would not expect to gain at the expense of any CO pilot.
The only people who stole my career were that SOB Tilton, and the Flt. OPS Mgmt.
personnel who knew they were going to retire aircraft a year before they hired us to get them through the summer schedule. I worked at Mesaba before ual, so my experience tells me it is not beyond these people...
What a chump I was, believing the hiring process and the interview....

I hope to resume flying for ual someday, it was great and the Captains were first class.... but it won't be for at least five years. Better would be the ability to say "no" to these greedy pigs.

I'd put my cards on Capt. Morse and the negotiators to get a fair integration for everyone. But greed is not exclusive to the boardroom, is it? Some pilot group will try to take advantage....

I think with the lack of enthusiasm combined with the high cost of flight training, airlines will be hard pressed to find pilots especially qualified ones in about 5 years. Just my opinion. Either way I will ride out the chaos here in the desert and will try to put away money for a rainy day when I get back home.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

The two MEC statements are vastly different between the UAL MEC and the CAL MEC.

UAL MEC communications primary topics are concerned with defending its seniority list. CAL MEC communications topic sentences are more concerned with a viable company. CAL MEC #1 concern is a viable company with its pilots the #3 priority. CAL will sell SCOPE for a CAL retirement only benefit.

The CAL MEC is a management tool verse a pilot group instrument. The CAL MEC will sell out both companies for some type of specific personal gain of an individual or small demographic group.

As a member of the CAL MEC, I take offense to your statement. I can tell you that your statement we are a tool for management is completely false. We will not sell anyone out!

Our MEC is unified and working together better then anytime in our recent history. How about we allow our respective merger committees do their difficult jobs, while we the pilots of United and Continental work together to negotiate an industry redefining contract that we all can be proud of?


Last time I checked, Mr. Tilton or Mr. Smisek didn’t ask any of us our opinions on this deal, they just cut the deal. Tilton will walk away in two years and Smisek in five or so (hopefully much less) with disgusting multi-million dollar exit packages and more wealthy then any of us could possibly image. However we the employees will be stuck to make sure this merger works, because it's all of our respective careers on the line.

I understand the seniority integration process is extremely emotional and stressful. Anything any of us say on this board or for that matter any of us on either MEC say will have absolutely no effect on the merged seniority list. In the end the single seniority list will be determined by both merger committees, a mediator and very possibly ultimately decided by three arbitrators.

I am confident both merger committees will do their very best for their respective pilots. In the end we all will have to work together as one pilot group that treats each other with dignity and respect or we will never be able to allow our merged company to be succesfull and more importantly create the unity required as a single pilot group to negotiate the very best industry leading contracts moving forward and adequetly protect our careers from the inevitable career threats that lie ahead.

 

[Crucianpilot]

As a member of the CAL MEC, I take offense to your statement. I can tell you that your statement we are a tool for management is completely false. We will not sell anyone out!

Our MEC is unified and working together better then anytime in our recent history. How about we allow our respective merger committees do their difficult jobs, while we the pilots of United and Continental work together to negotiate an industry redefining contract that we all can be proud of?


Last time I checked, Mr. Tilton or Mr. Smisek didn’t ask any of us our opinions on this deal, they just cut the deal. Tilton will walk away in two years and Smisek in five or so (hopefully much less) with disgusting multi-million dollar exit packages and more wealthy then any of us could possibly image. However we the employees will be stuck to make sure this merger works, because it's all of our respective careers on the line.

I understand the seniority integration process is extremely emotional and stressful. Anything any of us say on this board or for that matter any of us on either MEC say will have absolutely no effect on the merged seniority list. In the end the single seniority list will be determined by both merger committees, a mediator and very possibly ultimately decided by three arbitrators.

I am confident both merger committees will do their very best for their respective pilots. In the end we all will have to work together as one pilot group that treats each other with dignity and respect or we will never be able to allow our merged company to be succesfull and more importantly create the unity required as a single pilot group to negotiate the very best industry leading contracts moving forward and adequetly protect our careers from the inevitable career threats that lie ahead.

Thank you for coming on here and defending the position of our MEC. I for one am tired of hearing all of these yahoos coming on here and spewing rumors and conjecture. I support our Union and I am confident that they will protect our rights in this process. We are in for a long fight.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I'm really surprised a USAir Eastie hasn't chimed in and suggested demanding DOH only, since that tactic worked out so well for them....

If anything, you gotta give the Easties credit for showing what NOT to do...

Yeah, I'll have to admit that my original rather inflammatory post was probably aimed at St. Nic and MCDU as much as it was the UAL pilot group. I did take a lot of poetic license, UAL is not dying, but they are stagnant and will be greatly benefiting from future growth at our expense. There are furloughed pilots out there who think that because they were hired at one airline 8 years before I was hired at mine, they should be able to take my job and kick me into their place in the unemployment line. Precedence is that no furloughed pilot has ever been merged senior to a working one, and I hope it stays that way. I think the message from the merger committee was hinting at this.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

As long as CAL has had a union back on property the CAL union has been doing managements bidding. If UAL and CAL want to merge it will without the pilots consent. Ask the NWA pilots how the resistance worked out?

CAL is a union of fly now grieve later. CAL ALPA has never shown any brass balls. And the official statements CAL ALPA is making doesn't have the pilot's issues as the #1 priority again.

When a man is divorced five times should the sixth wife really believe he is capable of a successful marriage? CAL ALPA is a repeat loser.

Whatever statements the UAL MEC makes the CAL MEC needs to highlight, cut, and paste.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

No medical, five year pay scales, reserve rules, are about the worst in the industry. Open time pickup and vacation waive keep 147 guys off the property each and every day.

If they get a hint of a whiff of a scent that they're going to lose retirement benefits as was the case in C'02 (or lose the lump sum option), or if they're offered an immediate payout of the A-Plan in exchange for scope, it'll go down like a tased baseball fan.

CAL ALPA working for its pilots!

 

[Jetjockey]

Hey luckytohaveajob,

What have you done to better the career for anyone else but yourself? Ever serve your fellow pilots on a committee? Or do you prefer to throw barbs from your anonymous perch? Enlighten us.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

The truth hurts. Why did CAL ALPA put as its #1 priority something other than the pilots?

UAL ALPA did not take a management position in its statement. Red herring arguments about service do not discredit my point concerning CAL ALPA.

And a union rep. being offended by an obvious error in judgement by his MEC is nothing compared to a wounded pilot group due to incompetent leadership.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Nice bickering guys...it'll do you no good. Stop bitching, work together to make it better for all (some guys will have it better than others thats life), grow the place so damn big so WE ALL can be captains soon.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

By the way I was told that UAL will be ordering a bunch of 100 seaters this year for mainline! Reliable ALPA source

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I got you YuppyGuppy. Peace Out.