ual-awac......

[jrod]

wood,

I can agree that UAL is partly to blame for all this. However, my point is that because certain regional carriers allow their management to underbid other carriers by utilizing labor costs as a competitive edge, UAL has the opportunity to play the UAX carriers against each other. So while UAL is part of the problem, they are simply taking advantage of an opportunity that we as pilots provided to them.

 

[flyinglow]

Yo-Nited needs to go they have hurt too many people. End it now, one quick knockout is better then endless small blows.

 

[runfast]

i agree with another earlier posts....

it really isn't fair to come down too hard on any one group of pilots on this matter. it is our own mgts. idea not expand/ grow/ diversify, which in the end could be the downfall of a fine regional airline. i agree, this industry has big problems with undercutting and a complete lack of unity, but the big problems can be traced back to horrible management and the decisions made over the years (ual and awac).

good luck to the guys who will be flying our previous routes.

 

[Kenny]

I wasn't going to add my 10 cents but I think it's important for those of us who're actually at AWAC to say our piece. As jrod put it nicely, we weren’t screwed by management on this; we lost our ability to be able to bid on flying 70 seaters competitively when other companies agreed to fly them for 50 seat rates that were lower than ours.



I'm not some 20 something, wide-eyed and in awe of being an airline pilot, I had a successful career before this in a completely different field but I have to say that I have never come across an industry where there is so much envy, back-stabbing and jealousy. We're all so eager to get that upgrade and start logging "121 PIC", that we've priced ourselves out of a future. A lot of people on this board seem to think that the sooner they upgrade the nearer they'll be to getting on with a major but how the hell is that going to happen when we see more and more 170's and crj700's flying on what used to be 73 and 320 routes. Mainline isn't going to be hiring like they used to if they don't have as many aircraft.



I'm not going to say that we should all stand together or even form a "Regional ALPA" because it would fall on deaf ears but I think if pilots at other companies had even half an idea about how it can actually be at a regional like AWAC they might not be so quick to put up with continually lowered wages and always wondering which company is going to undercut you next and put you on the street.



We'll put those 70 CRJ's in the USAIR system and then some other poor unfortunate b*stard will be out on the street. What a great industry this is!



On a side note I did have to laugh at the following line in the Yonited press release

"This tentative agreement represents an important step toward reducing costs for a significant portion of our United Express flying and ground handling, while ensuring a safe, customer-friendly transition," said Sean Donohue, vice president-United Express and Ted. "We're very pleased to have reached market-competitive rates with AWAC for ground handling at a number of locations they currently serve, keeping a valued, long-standing partner on board with us."

So long standing and valued that they decided to bend us over a second time!





Good Luck to us all

 

[crashpad]

I want to bitch at all of the bottom feeders but that won't do any good, they just don't understand. AWAC was one of the best, we were working to keep the bar high and this is our thanks. What am I going to do for work, how will I pay for my house or put food on the table for my family? This sucks!!!

April 22nd. is going to roll around quick, so if you can't beat em, then join em.
You'll want to get your app. in asap, because it will only take one dork to ruin it for you guys (ie:interviewee shoots his mouth off about how AWAC pilots are really pi$$sed at Skywest).
What were you doing to keep the bar raised? ALPA and mgnt. played you big time. The 'boot in the butt strategy' will be used as an example against Mesa and Skywest to set a new standard shortly. We really have'nt seen a new low yet.
Ironically, the fact that Skywest pilots don't have a union probably was the reason they gained so much from this whole scam.

What are you doing with a house? Did you ever think your career with a commuter could reliably support a house and kids. That's just irresponsible. Rent an apartment and use birth control, or get a job with real stability. Yeah, you'll actually have to work, but that's what happens when you don't plan ahead.

Thank goodness this won't effect the senior guys. I hope you all can hang on long enough to get on with a big airline soon and put this experience behind you.

 

[146guy]

welcome to the airlines.......this is ridiculous! I'm disgusted. Not much more to say.

 

[nimtz]

Hey guys you have to credit the 80% of Skywest pilots who had the foresight to realize that just by cheapening the profession they would get to fly a whole lot of 70 seaters. After all they got the quick upgrades in one of the most advanced regional jets out there, so it's obvious who are the smart ones. With GoJet coming up perhaps we should allow learn from the Skywest lesson. I know I'll have my app ready for Uncle Hulas...





sarcasm

 

[Machdog1]

Why did skywest's pilots have to take a paycut then to get United flying? They did because they were told to, so they could be competative for getting a renewed flying contract with United and more A/C. The same thing was told to ACA and other companies like Whiskey. Not MESA because there pay is so low it didn't really matter. According to ACA's ALPA there was no way we could have competed with them. Skywest was the big problem because we were all shocked that they caved to Uniteds demands so early. The problem is if the original 3 express carriers stuck to there guns with United this all would not have happened. ACA was the only one to say no and because we were by ourselves and had no support the rest of the bottom feeders came in and replaced us. Now the same thing has happened to Whisky and will continue to happen. When are pilots going to learn that a gain for your self may not be a gain for the industry. I guess a furlough will wake u up. From a furloughed ACA/ Independence Air pilot, "We told you so"

 

[propsarebest]

GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU WHISKY GUYS.

WHAT A TERRIBLE ENDING TO AN OUTSTANDING AIRLINE!

BEST WISHES

 

[Socalplt]

Do you really think that a pay difference of say $20-30 an hour for the crew is what results in a bid being succesful or not. The operating cost for the aircraft contain alot more than just crew pay. SkyWest's entire operational cost deterimine the rate which we could do the flying for. SkyWest has numerous advantages when it comes to bidding on flying. Probably the most obvious is our ability to get the best rates in the industry when it comes to financing new aircraft.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that AirWis 84 aircraft are only being replaced with 30. United wanted to get rid of a bunch of 50 seaters and they have found a way to replace them with more efficient 70s.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ya know, this is incredible.....

as recent as 5 or 6 years ago, if that long, folks are high fiving each other with chants like 'Untied plus one', and a laundry list of other stuff, along with fat contracts, blah, blah, blah...

then *hit hits the fan...and everyone has got it out for everyone else....

These last few years can be summed up in three freaking words....

SUPPLY AND DEMAND


Simply as that boys and girls. When it benefits the pilot groups, they take full advantage and reap the benefits....

...and when it benefits the company, they do the same.....

It'll come around. In the mean time, suck it up. Blame will only make you angry.

 

[CaptBiff]

why don't you all include the low cost carriers into your grouping of bottom feeders? USA 3000, southwest, jetblue, spirit, airtran, and indy all basicaly do the samething as the legacy carriers but they make a hell of a lot less. They are the ones partly responsible for this sh!t. You all talk so much smack about bottom feeders, but you all would sell your own first born to work at southwest hell even pay for your own training. Or am I wrong?

 

[PropsR4Boats]

We should have all gone to Med. school instead.

 

[bvt1151]

Do you really think that a pay difference of say $20-30 an hour for the crew is what results in a bid being succesful or not. The operating cost for the aircraft contain alot more than just crew pay.

Here you are incorrect. Labor is the single highest cost to an airline. Remember that for every aircraft that flies you're not only paying those two crewmembers. You're also paying all the reserve pilots, plus guarantee for others, plus pilots in training, plus administrative pilots. You can conservatively double what the crew is being paid in dollars to get in the ballpark of what it is costing the company.

 

[8HourPilot]

So what confuses me.
All there has been talk about is 70 seat flying this, and 70 seat flying that. For now the only announcement has been the GoJet and Skywest are going to take 30 total CRJ-700's. Where is all the 50 seat flying going? Nobody out there right now can take over that kind of flying.
All that BAC Jet flying too, guess Mesaba is going to beat the he!! out of ASE now.
Maybe I missed something, it just seems like this is open ended.

 

[generaltso]

Where is all the 50 seat flying going? Nobody out there right now can take over that kind of flying.

Wrong!! Which ever company gets booted out of the airways family (i.e. TSA or Mesa) will have 50 seat planes sitting around ready to be flown for practically nothing.

 

[TWA Dude]

My sincere condolences to the Air Whiskey guys. You're a great bunch and I hope the USAir thing works out as best as possible.

I can't tell you what to think but I've seen so much pilot-bashing I can guarantee that if you don't hate the pilots of X Airlines today I'm sure you'll find some reason tomorrow. It's absurd. This tragedy lays squarely at the feet of United (and I mean the company, not the pilots!) I know it's tough to find a proper outlet for anger but trust me if you blame pilots of other airlines it will do nothing but eat away your insides like a cancer.

Good luck, y'all.

 

[Morning Wood]

If this is the fault of Skywest's pilots, can someone tell me why
Mesa wasn't given any additonal 70-seat flying? I think you
guys have every right to be mad, but blame United for forcing
this situation on your mgt.

 

[NEDude]

Best of luck guys. I know a bunch of guys who went there about a year ago. Sad to hear this happening to one of the best regionals out there.

 

[Kenny]

Remember there hasn't been an announcement about the other 40 ac's worth of flying yet. Mesa may still do "alright" out of that. Mind you I just saw that their stock has fallen 15%



This one decision is going to have a far reaching impact for a lot of us, not just the AWAC pilot group. I wonder if Yonited has any idea of the fall out they're going to cause with this?