ual-awac......

[FlyComAirJets]

I still do not understand what you guys did to deserve this. If history is any indication, Air Wisconsin will be back. United dealt them a body blow in the early 90's (stripped the company of their ORD slots, fragged the company and then threw a few crumbs, er, interviews, their way). Any survivors of that experience?

Best of luck to the finest feeder, I mean commuter, no I mean regional, ever. Mark my words, you guys will be back. If you have any money still in the bank, I hope you buy Independance Air.

 

[jrod]

I'm not going to get into a contest about whose fault it is that our UAL contract was terminated. I don't think you can blame any one person or entity. The sad fact is that one of the premier regional airline jobs/contracts is probably about to disappear. That’s a loss for not just the men and women holding those jobs, but for the entire industry.

For those of you that never did your homework, pilots were able to support and justify the comfortable salaries that they enjoyed for 50 years by working together to make sure that they did not undercut each other. Sure, allow management to compete with their rival airlines, but not by using labor costs as “human fertilizer” to subsidize their competitive edge. Somewhere along the way we got away from that teamwork, which lead us to where we are now.

Personally, I chose not to work for a carrier that uses their labor costs to undercut their competitors. I did it on principle. I’m not here to sit on my high horse and condemn anyone that did. We all make our own choices, but don’t tell me that we as pilots are not part of the problem.

Every time we take a job for that quick upgrade so we can gain valuable “121 PIC”, we are part of the problem. Every time we accept a contract to fly bigger airplanes for the same pay as a smaller one, we are part of the problem.

If anything, we are the problem.

 

[snine3departure]

Well, just woke up and read the news. I feel like I have just been punched in the gut or maybe kicked in the balls. I want to bitch at all of the bottom feeders but that won't do any good, they just don't understand. AWAC was one of the best, we were working to keep the bar high and this is our thanks. So many things going through me head right now I just don't know what to say. What am I going to do for work, how will I pay for my house or put food on the table for my family? This sucks!!!

By the way thanks flycomairjets for the encouragement, you guys rock!!

 

[Lou3]

Here is the post for those that were asking for it....


Press ReleaseSource: United Airlines


United, Air Wisconsin Reach Tentative Agreement to Transition United Express Flying and Ground Handling Services
Thursday April 7, 11:00 am ET - No interruptions to United Express service

CHICAGO, April 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- United Airlines announced today that it has reached a tentative agreement with Air Wisconsin Airlines (AWAC) on flying and ground-handling transition plans. The agreement is subject to approval by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court and is expected to be heard during the regularly scheduled Omnibus hearing on April 22.

After evaluating bids received as part of the request for proposal (RFP) issued in November 2004, United will have a new group of regional air carriers take over all United Express flying currently operated by AWAC out of Washington Dulles, Chicago O'Hare International and Denver International Airports. AWAC will continue to perform ground handling for United Express at a number of stations.

"This tentative agreement represents an important step toward reducing costs for a significant portion of our United Express flying and ground handling, while ensuring a safe, customer-friendly transition," said Sean Donohue, vice president-United Express and Ted. "We're very pleased to have reached market-competitive rates with AWAC for ground handling at a number of locations they currently serve, keeping a valued, long-standing partner on board with us."

As the company previously announced, the carriers that will take over United Express flying include SkyWest and GoJet (a subsidiary of Trans States). United currently is in discussions with other carriers and may continue to award additional flying and ground-handling through the RFP process.

"The United Express product and reliability continue to improve, and our new agreements ensure we will continue to provide superior service and competitive fares to our customers," Donohue said.

About United

United Airlines (OTC Bulletin Board: UALAQ - News) is the world's second largest airline, operating more than 3,400 flights a day on United, United Express and Ted to more than 200 U.S. domestic and international destinations from its hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C. With key global air rights in the Asia-Pacific region, Europe and Latin America, United is the largest international carrier based in the United States.* United is also a founding member of Star Alliance, which provides connections for our customers to nearly 800 destinations in 139 countries worldwide. United's 60,000 employees reside in every U.S. state and in many countries around the world. News releases and other information about United can be found at the company's Web site at united.com.

*Measured by revenue passenger miles as reported to the U.S. Department of Transportation for 12 months ending September 2004, the most recent comparison data available.

Media Relations Contacts:

United Media Relations Office: 847.700.5538

United Evenings/Weekends: 847.700.4088




Source: United Airlines

 

[Morning Wood]

jrod

I think 99% of the blame can go to United. You can only
squeeze so much blood out of a turnip. United dropped Mesa like
a steaming dog turd back in '98 because of service failures, but
then are willing to get back in bed with them when they need
the lift and are willing to take the lowest bidder. Then to top it
all off, they turn each of the Express carriers loose to underbid
each other. So you either bid to keep the flying you have or
lose it and then figure out what to do with a bunch of airplanes
and employees. Let's not forget too that this doesn't only
affect pilots with jobs that are being lost.

 

[jrod]

wood,

I can agree that UAL is partly to blame for all this. However, my point is that because certain regional carriers allow their management to underbid other carriers by utilizing labor costs as a competitive edge, UAL has the opportunity to play the UAX carriers against each other. So while UAL is part of the problem, they are simply taking advantage of an opportunity that we as pilots provided to them.

 

[flyinglow]

Yo-Nited needs to go they have hurt too many people. End it now, one quick knockout is better then endless small blows.

 

[runfast]

i agree with another earlier posts....

it really isn't fair to come down too hard on any one group of pilots on this matter. it is our own mgts. idea not expand/ grow/ diversify, which in the end could be the downfall of a fine regional airline. i agree, this industry has big problems with undercutting and a complete lack of unity, but the big problems can be traced back to horrible management and the decisions made over the years (ual and awac).

good luck to the guys who will be flying our previous routes.

 

[Kenny]

I wasn't going to add my 10 cents but I think it's important for those of us who're actually at AWAC to say our piece. As jrod put it nicely, we weren’t screwed by management on this; we lost our ability to be able to bid on flying 70 seaters competitively when other companies agreed to fly them for 50 seat rates that were lower than ours.



I'm not some 20 something, wide-eyed and in awe of being an airline pilot, I had a successful career before this in a completely different field but I have to say that I have never come across an industry where there is so much envy, back-stabbing and jealousy. We're all so eager to get that upgrade and start logging "121 PIC", that we've priced ourselves out of a future. A lot of people on this board seem to think that the sooner they upgrade the nearer they'll be to getting on with a major but how the hell is that going to happen when we see more and more 170's and crj700's flying on what used to be 73 and 320 routes. Mainline isn't going to be hiring like they used to if they don't have as many aircraft.



I'm not going to say that we should all stand together or even form a "Regional ALPA" because it would fall on deaf ears but I think if pilots at other companies had even half an idea about how it can actually be at a regional like AWAC they might not be so quick to put up with continually lowered wages and always wondering which company is going to undercut you next and put you on the street.



We'll put those 70 CRJ's in the USAIR system and then some other poor unfortunate b*stard will be out on the street. What a great industry this is!



On a side note I did have to laugh at the following line in the Yonited press release

"This tentative agreement represents an important step toward reducing costs for a significant portion of our United Express flying and ground handling, while ensuring a safe, customer-friendly transition," said Sean Donohue, vice president-United Express and Ted. "We're very pleased to have reached market-competitive rates with AWAC for ground handling at a number of locations they currently serve, keeping a valued, long-standing partner on board with us."

So long standing and valued that they decided to bend us over a second time!





Good Luck to us all

 

[crashpad]

I want to bitch at all of the bottom feeders but that won't do any good, they just don't understand. AWAC was one of the best, we were working to keep the bar high and this is our thanks. What am I going to do for work, how will I pay for my house or put food on the table for my family? This sucks!!!

April 22nd. is going to roll around quick, so if you can't beat em, then join em.
You'll want to get your app. in asap, because it will only take one dork to ruin it for you guys (ie:interviewee shoots his mouth off about how AWAC pilots are really pi$$sed at Skywest).
What were you doing to keep the bar raised? ALPA and mgnt. played you big time. The 'boot in the butt strategy' will be used as an example against Mesa and Skywest to set a new standard shortly. We really have'nt seen a new low yet.
Ironically, the fact that Skywest pilots don't have a union probably was the reason they gained so much from this whole scam.

What are you doing with a house? Did you ever think your career with a commuter could reliably support a house and kids. That's just irresponsible. Rent an apartment and use birth control, or get a job with real stability. Yeah, you'll actually have to work, but that's what happens when you don't plan ahead.

Thank goodness this won't effect the senior guys. I hope you all can hang on long enough to get on with a big airline soon and put this experience behind you.

 

[146guy]

welcome to the airlines.......this is ridiculous! I'm disgusted. Not much more to say.

 

[nimtz]

Hey guys you have to credit the 80% of Skywest pilots who had the foresight to realize that just by cheapening the profession they would get to fly a whole lot of 70 seaters. After all they got the quick upgrades in one of the most advanced regional jets out there, so it's obvious who are the smart ones. With GoJet coming up perhaps we should allow learn from the Skywest lesson. I know I'll have my app ready for Uncle Hulas...





sarcasm

 

[Machdog1]

Why did skywest's pilots have to take a paycut then to get United flying? They did because they were told to, so they could be competative for getting a renewed flying contract with United and more A/C. The same thing was told to ACA and other companies like Whiskey. Not MESA because there pay is so low it didn't really matter. According to ACA's ALPA there was no way we could have competed with them. Skywest was the big problem because we were all shocked that they caved to Uniteds demands so early. The problem is if the original 3 express carriers stuck to there guns with United this all would not have happened. ACA was the only one to say no and because we were by ourselves and had no support the rest of the bottom feeders came in and replaced us. Now the same thing has happened to Whisky and will continue to happen. When are pilots going to learn that a gain for your self may not be a gain for the industry. I guess a furlough will wake u up. From a furloughed ACA/ Independence Air pilot, "We told you so"

 

[propsarebest]

GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU WHISKY GUYS.

WHAT A TERRIBLE ENDING TO AN OUTSTANDING AIRLINE!

BEST WISHES

 

[Socalplt]

Do you really think that a pay difference of say $20-30 an hour for the crew is what results in a bid being succesful or not. The operating cost for the aircraft contain alot more than just crew pay. SkyWest's entire operational cost deterimine the rate which we could do the flying for. SkyWest has numerous advantages when it comes to bidding on flying. Probably the most obvious is our ability to get the best rates in the industry when it comes to financing new aircraft.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that AirWis 84 aircraft are only being replaced with 30. United wanted to get rid of a bunch of 50 seaters and they have found a way to replace them with more efficient 70s.