TWA v. ALPA Suit Going To Trial

[Raoul Duke]

The gory details can be found here: http://www.twapilot.org/TWA vs. ALPA Documents/Lee Seham Report.pdf

I got to the first page, saw who authored it and am now convinced that the TWA pilots are screwed.

 

[Draginass]

Took a quick scan of about half of it. Two observations: Quoting Bob Kudwa as an expert on anything is laughable. Secondly, the author falsely states that the APA though that the TWA deal would result in greatly increased growth. I was there at the time and the almost universal opinion among AA pilots was that it was a BAD deal and that TWA would be dismantled and we'd be left with TWA metal and routes GONE, and TWA pilots diluting the AA seniority list.

 

[TWA Dude]

I'm not surprised you weren't afraid of an arbitration. Considering that ALPA had ZERO leverage (for good reason BTW), it's obvious that anything an arbitrator would decide would be better than what was the logical and justified outcome, given AA's history of acquiring other airlines.

I don't understand your logic. Could you please clarify exactly why you think an arbitrator would've ruled "better than what was the logical and justified outcome"?

Yes, we were afraid of something. Afraid that the usual AA practice of buying an airline, then shutting it down and diluting our seniority system was going to come true . . . yet again.

That's not logical and I'll explain. We all know AA management displays questionable juddgment but do you really think they bought previous airlines with the intent of shrinking to pre-purchase size in short order? Of course not. The circumstances that existed when AA made its decision obviously changed.

You're free to argue the TWA purchase was ill-advised but at the time there were logical reasons why AA did it. 9/11 changed that and I'm guessing you didn't predict 9/11. Therefore, you could not have anticipated that the AA would shrink drastically so shortly after the TWA purchase. It's very disingenuous for you to suggest you knew as much.

BTW, my sympathies for getting caught in two botched acquisitions/mergers. That's more than anyone one man should have to endure.

I want your sympathy like I want my hemorrhoid to flair up. You and the USAir Easties are two peas in a pod: self-serving, self-entitled, and self-righteous.

 

[Neubyfly]

Eh, you don't have to. You'll learn the hard way that frivolous lawsuits are not the way to solve your problems, just like the RJDC wankers did.

No but buying a job at Gulfstream is.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

No but buying a job at Gulfstream is.

But he said he was sorry....

 

[C-150ETOPS]

"That's not logical and I'll explain. We all know AA management displays questionable juddgment but do you really think they bought previous airlines with the intent of shrinking to pre-purchase size in short order? Of course not. The circumstances that existed when AA made its decision obviously changed."

You'll "explain" from what view, someone who hadn't dealt with AMR? You dealt with Icahn, same scum, different beasts.

The TWA system was going to get whacked. the economy was already in the sheeter with crappy loads and yields the summer of 2001.

The TWA system had a significcant amount of flying that AA detested. Riyadh, are you kidding? STL to Europe, with DFW and ORD Europe flights an hour away, that flying was going away. Same goes for STL- Hawaii, gone to because of ORD/DFW. The Caribbean SJU "Hub". That was just some lunch money pilfered from the AA's Caribbean "lake". That flying was gone except for PUJ. The STL short haul flying I covered in my previous post was also gone. Mainline jets from the STL Hub to SGF/DSM/MLI/FAR/MKE/OMA? We AA pilots lost that flying top Eagle 8 years before. It sucks, but did you guys really think the AA pilots should give you a relative seniority merge based on 2001 baseline to places like those?

The APA deal protected the STL TWA guys based on an educated guess as to what AMR would do with TWA. If they had kept the flying APa guessed they would, upgrades due to the senior TWA guys retiring would have let protected TWA FO's upgrade earlier than the AA guys based on DOH. It's too bad that AA cut STL and the TWA system even more than APA thought they would.

 

[stlflyguy]

Eh, you don't have to. You'll learn the hard way that frivolous lawsuits are not the way to solve your problems, just like the RJDC wankers did.

Hey, what's this rumor that AirTran pilots negotiated with ALPA prior to joining that they not be assessed for anything that might come out of this suit?

Is there any truth in that?

 

[PCL_128]

Hey, what's this rumor that AirTran pilots negotiated with ALPA prior to joining that they not be assessed for anything that might come out of this suit?

Is there any truth in that?

It's not specific to the Bensel litigation, but yes, our merger agreement protects us from having to pay any assessments for litigation filed prior to our merger.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I guarantee you if there is ever a big judgment rendered against ALPA that will be the day it ceases to exist. For instance if ALPA were to lose this TWA suit (which I don't think will happen) does anyone really think that Delta or United pilots will pay a dime in assessments? Not a chance in hell. They will just decertify ALPA and it will evaporate overnight.

 

[Draginass]

You and the USAir Easties are two peas in a pod: self-serving, self-entitled, and self-righteous.

That applies a lot more to TWA pilots than AA. TWA pilots would be happy to throw AA pilots away and take their flying, since almost NOTHING of TWA flying still exists. . . .LIKE EASILY PREDICTED BY THE APA. Further, TWA pilots agreed to the seniority list, only now THEY want a "Do-Over", just like US Air pilots. YOU'RE the one that would like to take AA pilots' jobs that you feel somehow "entitled" to even though you took a job with TWA, a long-sick and failed airline. I never even considered TWA when airline job shopping because it was a chronically sick company.

And as far as self-righteous goes, well . . . read your own posts.