Twa 800

[lurker]

manpad
MANPAD
MANPAD?

c'mon, stop typing that. It makes me think of.........
nevermind

I believe the term you really mean is 'manpon' as made famous by the man show
http://www.termsdefined.net/ma/manpon.html

 

[LJDRVR]

Simmer down there, EMBRAER driver.... ...... Not sure I recall implying that the "seasoned" NTSB folks are liars.... Play nice.

You called the final report a novel, in other words; fiction. If you self-admitedly dont know what you're talking about, then quit throwing about hyperbole concerning the missile scenario.

Here's a little suggested reading, if you're interested in actually finding out who the NTSB is and what's involved with an investigation; Blind Trust, by John Nance. It's a good starting off point for the layman to begin to understand what happens when an airplane crashes. If you find yourself in Houston, you can borrow my copy anytime, just drop me a line.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I have no idea what those other folks saw, but the evidence investigated by the men and women of the NTSB suggest the CWT exploded, and that there was no evidence of a bomb or missle. HMMM....Who to believe???? The head NTSB structures guy, a trained engineer and seasoned accident investigator who is sworn to find the truth and actually conducted an investigation, or some guy who thinks he saw some missile?

You seem to have the impression that all of the trained professionals who have investigated and researched this crash believe that the CWT exploded. Please visit this site: http://www.twa800.com/index.htm

This isn't merely a case of a bunch of ignorant bystanders allowing their emotions to draw conclusions. There are other groups of trained professionals who have done extensive research regarding this accident that disagree with the NTSB's position.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Oh, and here is a link to Commander Donaldson's report.
http://twa800.com/report/report.pdf

As for myself, I don't really have an opinion either way. There is plenty of supporting evidence on both sides. I don't have enough first hand information to come to a conclusion.

 

[FN FAL]

I don't have enough first hand information to come to a conclusion.

Ronald Reagan's, "We will never forget..." speech should be information enough.

 

[LAZYB]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]"A man who is always ready to believe what is told him will never do well."
-- Gaius Petronius


[/FONT]

 

[staledog]

You called the final report a novel, in other words; fiction. If you self-admitedly dont know what you're talking about, then quit throwing about hyperbole concerning the missile scenario.

Here's a little suggested reading, if you're interested in actually finding out who the NTSB is and what's involved with an investigation; Blind Trust, by John Nance. It's a good starting off point for the layman to begin to understand what happens when an airplane crashes. If you find yourself in Houston, you can borrow my copy anytime, just drop me a line.

ok dude, we get it. you don't think it got shot down. everyone that disagrees with you is a moron. how many hours (seriously) have you spent typing on this thread? actually i thought you said "i give up, i can't argue with morons" or something like that on about page 3 or 4. obviously not. i can't tell you to shut up, it's your keyboard...but geez....

by the way i think it was shot down.

 

[Thedude]

I may be new o the 747 but you would think if the center fuel tank was a problem there would have been an emergency AD and that would have grounded every 747 of the same model. To my knowledge the onlyl thing that has been issed by the feds is circular on suggested use of the scavenge fuel pump in the center tank. As soon as that circluar was being distrubited at my company, you should have heard some of the comments from the old salty 747 guys. In a word, they dont believe it either.

Remebr the military Lr-jet that packed in in back in 95. It was supposedly due to fuel imbalance. With a couple of days there was an emergency AD out for flapper valves and that wasnt even the problem (in this case)with the crash of that aircraft.

There are too many inconsistancy with TWA 800 and too many agency were involved in the investigation. What other crash can show the investgation teams were comprised of the NTSB, FBI, CIA and others. Who has the real expertise in crash investigation. I would think the NTSB, but yet it was taken over by the CIA. Kinda strange.
Too many complex things were explained away to easily. My favorite on was the explosive residue found on several of the seats. It was explained away as...the aircraft was used for DoD charters and K-9 training. Well for that much residue to be on the seats, the soliders would have to have coated themselves in C-4 prior to boarding that a/c. If any of you have ever done DoD charters, you would know explosives or ammo are not allowed in the pax cabin at any time.

 

[Crossky]

In a book by Craig Roberts "the medusa files" I actually did read an account of a sailor who confessed to his father while on leave in Norman, OK that his ship accidentally shot down TWA800 and he was asked by the Navy to keep it quiet. Somehow his accusations got in the local newpaper and the author was recounting it in his chapter on TWA800.

Many many eyewitnesses, including Blackhawk and C-130 pilots reported what they thought was a missile. What about a radar guided missile? If so it would've hit right where the 'fuel pump caused the explosion'.

The FBI did withold evidence from the NTSB. How often does that happen?

If it was terrorists, Clinton didn't want to respond by going to war against them at that time. If it was a Naval accident, it was deemed a matter of National Security to keep it quiet.

 

[FN FAL]

In a book by Craig Roberts "the medusa files" I actually did read an account of a sailor who confessed to his father while on leave in Norman, OK that his ship accidentally shot down TWA800 and he was asked by the Navy to keep it quiet. Somehow his accusations got in the local newpaper and the author was recounting it in his chapter on TWA800.

Many many eyewitnesses, including Blackhawk and C-130 pilots reported what they thought was a missile. What about a radar guided missile? If so it would've hit right where the 'fuel pump caused the explosion'.

The FBI did withold evidence from the NTSB. How often does that happen?

If it was terrorists, Clinton didn't want to respond by going to war against them at that time. If it was a Naval accident, it was deemed a matter of National Security to keep it quiet.

And during Katrina, there was a reefer full of dead babies with their throats slit and hundreds of women were getting raped every hour in the super dome. Even the police chief said it was true, but then he had to quit his job...because the NSA told him to keep quiet about it, because it was Bush's fault.

 

[Dangerkitty]

And during Katrina, there was a reefer full of dead babies with their throats slit and hundreds of women were getting raped every hour in the super dome. Even the police chief said it was true, but then he had to quit his job...because the NSA told him to keep quiet about it, because it was Bush's fault.

Hey FN FAL,

Do the chicks in your avatar eat a boxed lunch?

 

[AV1ATRX]

Ok, I will admit I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread, but I wanted to offer my two cents worth. You can believe this or not, it goes against what most of you think...

When that accident happened, I was in Private Pilot ground school. We had class the day after the accident, and a man in our class told us that his son called him the night before, very upset, saying the ship he was on (he was in the Navy) had accidentally shot down an airplane. This guy was not crazy, just a normal guy, and I knew him for several years after that and he never, ever said anything that would be considered crazy. Just a normal guy. But after that first night, he didn't talk about it any more.

Obviously with an experience like that, I'll go to my grave believing it was a missle. And I'm not into conspiracy theories.

 

[LAZYB]

Since 1985, the Safety Board has investigated or assisted in the investigation of two other fuel tank explosions involving commercial transport-category airplanes The most recent accident 'nvolved a Philippine Airlines B-737-300 at Ninoy Aquino International Airport, Manila, 'hilippines, on May 11, 1990. In that accident, the CWT ullage' fuel-air vapors exploded as the airplane was being pushed back from a terminal gate, resulting in 8 fatalities and 30 injuries. The ambient temperature at the time of the accident was about 95T, and the airplane had been parked in the sun. Although damage to wiring and a defective fuel quantity sensor were identified as possible sources of ignition, a definitive ignition source was never confirmed.

The Safety Board also assisted in the investigation of the crash of Avianca flight 203, a B-727, on November 27, 1989 The airplane had departed Bogota, Colombia, about 5 minutes before the crash. Examination of the wreckage revealed that a small bomb placed under a passenger seat, above the CWT, had exploded The bomb explosion did not compromise the structural integrity of the airplane; however, the explosion punctured the CWT and ignited the
fuel-air vapors in the ullage, resulting in destruction of the airplane

Earlier, the Safety Board conducted a special investigation of the May 9, 1976, explosion and in-flight separation of the left wing of an Iranian Air Force B-747-131, as it approached Madrid, Spain, following a flight from Iran Witnesses reported seeing a lightning strike to the left wing, followed by fire, explosion, and separation of the wing...

In a fuel tank, the ullage is the vapor-laden space above the level of the fuel in the tank.

http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/1996/a96_174_177.pdf

Thank you Singlecoil. You didn't mention the fact that Boeing has had center fuel tank explosion issues for years. Phillipine Airlines had one on a 737-500, and the Air Force had several on the KC-135, including a couple in flight.

No doubt somebody will bring up the voliatility of JP4 vs. Jet A. Sorry, but you'll have to make a different arguement.

Again, time to ask which is more likely:

Dozens if not hundreds of professional military, law enforcement, and trained accident investigators, board members, all sworn to finding out the truth and or following the rule of law have remained silent. Each and every one of them. The Government, which brought you Watergate, Vince Foster, Monica Lewinsky, Randy Cunningham, and so, so, much more, got it right. Every single detail in place. Nobody speaking out.

OR

Yet another Boeing Jet is destroyed by a center fuel tank explosion.

WHICH IS MORE LIKELY?!

Any of you link posters care to answer my question honestly?


LJDRVR

 

[LAZYB]

I disagree. NTSB investigators and law enforcement officials have, at the very core of their professional existence, a desire to find the truth. I simply find it beyond belief that not a single one of these people have come forward with their suspicions. Particularly the NTSB people.

So here's my question again: Which is more likely?

Dozens if not hundreds of professional military, law enforcement, and trained accident investigators, board members, all sworn to finding out the truth and or following the rule of law have remained silent. Each and every one of them. The Government, which brought you Watergate, Vince Foster, Monica Lewinsky, Randy Cunningham, and so, so, much more, got it right. Everysingle detail in place. Nobody speaking out...

Executive Order 13039 "Naval Special Warfare Exclusion"

Exclusion of the Naval Special Warfare Development Group
From the Federal Labor-Management Relations Program

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TWA800/images/bill.jpg​

Executive Order 13039 can be viewed at the White House site at: http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urndi://oma.eop.gov.us/1997/3/12/1.text.1 or at http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/white-house-publications/1997/03/1997-03-11-exec-order-on-naval-special-warfare-development-group.text

Here's the text of Executive Order 13039​

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary​

_______________________________________________________________​

For Immediate Release March 12, 1997​

EXECUTIVE ORDER​

EXCLUSION OF THE NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE DEVELOPMENT GROUP FROM THE FEDERAL LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS PROGRAM​

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7103(b)(1) of title 5 of the United States Code, and having determined that the Naval Special Warfare Development Group has as a primary function intelligence, counter-intelligence, investigative, or national security work and that the provisions of Chapter 71 of title 5 of the United States Code cannot be applied to this organization in a manner consistent with national security requirements and considerations, Executive Order 12171 of November 19, 1979, as amended, is further amended by adding the following at the end of section 1-205:
"(i) Naval Special Warfare Development Group."
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
THE WHITE HOUSE,
March 11, 1997."


​

From Clinton Muzzles The Naval Weapons People by Mike Rivero.

"Just as the radar images were being published in Paris Match, Clinton signed the following Executive Order. The Federal Labor-Management Relations Program provides a mechanism for workers to complain of inappropriate treatment, or to report wrongdoing without fear of reprisal. Interesting timing, isn't it? "​

 

[Jafar]

If any of you have ever done DoD charters, you would know explosives or ammo are not allowed in the pax cabin at any time.

I beg to differ. As an enlisted Marine I flew on DoD charters with live ammo in the cabin. B-737 to be exact. And this was for transport within CONUS. The crew was aware of it. Our unit SOP at the time was that weapons would never be transported without armed Marines accompanying them. This has little to do with the topic at hand, but I thought I'd bring it up.

 

[Thedude]

I beg to differ. As an enlisted Marine I flew on DoD charters with live ammo in the cabin. B-737 to be exact. And this was for transport within CONUS. The crew was aware of it. Our unit SOP at the time was that weapons would never be transported without armed Marines accompanying them. This has little to do with the topic at hand, but I thought I'd bring it up.

Let me adjust my statement slightly. All of the DoDO charters that I did, which were many in number. We were advised that no ammo would be present in the pax cabin and the bolts were removed from the soldiers weapons. The only one armed was usually the most senior officer on the aircraft and that was typicall only a sidearm. I have transported many Army, Marine and Air Force personnel and found this to be the case.

 

[Annie]

What are the similarities, if any, between TWA 800, the Egyptian flight, and the Swissair flight that also crashed after take off from New York? Swissair (Sept 2, 1998) and Egypt Air (Oct 31, 1999) I am particularly curious about the distances apart from each other. I am not suggesting that all 3 were shot down by a missile, but I am curious about the length of time after take off, and the proximity to each other (distances).

I do support the missile theory for the TWA 800 crash for many reasons. However, I do not believe it was done by our military.

 

[9GClub]

When that accident happened, I was in Private Pilot ground school. We had class the day after the accident, and a man in our class told us that his son called him the night before, very upset, saying the ship he was on (he was in the Navy) had accidentally shot down an airplane.

How do you 'accidentally' shoot down a 747?

 

[whaleroast]

You see what happened is that the F/E was new, it was his first revenue flight, and when he went to chime the FA's, he accidentally pushed the "self-destruct" button instead.

 

[AV1ATRX]

How do you 'accidentally' shoot down a 747?

They were supposed to hit something else, such as the drone previously mentioned, but something went wrong and an airplane was hit instead.