TSA SAT Flying given to G-Jets

[temcgrew]

UEJ500-

Hate to take a stab at ya big guy, but block or better is for meatheads. In my 7 years I've had 4 mo's that I flown over block, and all four of those months where in LGA. I'd take 3-4 bucks more an hour any day, rather that over block protection. Just my 2-cents..

Cheers..

That would be all well and good except that the g0jet payscale is only 1.50 more per hour than the TSA 145 rate. Delays in and out of ORD can add up alot more than that crappy rate for 20 more seats.

Again, TSH found a way to get pilots to work for free. They have also convinced the pilot group that we at TSA deserve getting furloughed and cuts in pay. The company makes it sound like they begged us 5 times to do the flying and we said no. This is not the case. We voted one time and thought we could negotiate after that.

 

[Turbosnake03]

We voted one time and thought we could negotiate after that.

Not trying to be a prick but, why not vote yes and try to negotiate after you had the flying and have more control over the situation??? i guess it is a mute point, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[temcgrew]

Not trying to be a prick but, why not vote yes and try to negotiate after you had the flying and have more control over the situation??? i guess it is a mute point, hindsight is 20/20.

The TSA MEC was not only "fighting" with the company but also started attacking ALPA NATIONAL. National wanted the contract voted in because of the "holding company" language. They knew it wasn't the best contract and they also had a hunch that the company would slam the door on us if it was voted down.
If I could pull up all of the past post's on the subject you would see a pattern of manipulation by the MEC and how they bashed anyone with an opposing position.

The voice of reason was drowned out by the bitter anger and name calling by our MEC. The reaction of these guys was like a 4 year old, who can't vocalize a rational thought and resort to name calling.

I voted YES and I encouraged many others to do the same, but the influence of the MEC was the reason so many fence sitters decided to vote NO at the last minute.

Now, wait until SHREK reads this and watch his reaction.

Read some of the past post by him, any blame on the MEC and they all go into defensive mode and bash anyone that has anything to say.

I would love to see our MEC chairman go away, and I believe after all thats happened he should step aside and let someone else lead the cause.
His attitude and personal feelings get in the way of effective communication and many pilots have been hurt because he had no VISION during this whole process nor would he listen to anyone who saw the writing on the wall.

The sad part is that because of the name calling and attacking of anyone that does not blindly support them, nobody will do anything about it. The more he damages TSA's future, the more people support him.

I am abiding my time here and aggressively trying to find other employment. I think it is just a matter of time before the company is cut in half.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

TSA booted AWAC out of ORD by bidding lower and TSA pilots happily flew those routes too. Where were your principles when it came to United 737 and A319 pilots or AWAC BAe-146 guys? Do you see how giving domestic flying to regionals has kept United pilots on furlough?

Now you come on here and speak with such self indignation about denying Go Jet pilots jumpseats and how much better you are than Go Jet. Look in the mirror, what routes are you flying today that were flown by United or AWAC? Has a United or AWAC pilot ever denied a TSA guy a jumpseat? Probably not. Its time you mature and cut the vendetta stuff and realize the nature of the industry you are in.

Get a clue you useless tool bag. TSA management bid it and Whisky lost the flying, just as Whisky gained US Air stuff while TSA lost it. TSA pilots did not hire on to skirt the system nor was it being created to ruin Whisky guy's and their upgrades. Tyr comparing apples to oranges instead of two entirely different scenarios. Or you do not want to because you'll be seen for scumbag you are?

Indignation? Hardly. The routes being flown by regionals today were given up by some mainline guys who didn't want to be troubled by the 50-70 seat stuff. Not all the pilots, but that was the what scope allowed when the money was still good and there were no worries.

I realize very well the nature of the business I am in. I also know that it's the types like yourself that allow these companies to continue to pay the crap they do and whipsaw back and forth. I may not be a CA but if a GJ guy attempts to commute on a plane I am crewing I will plead my case to the guy in the left seat. If he over rules it, it's dropped but if he kicks their sorry, enabling butts off; I'll have a warm fuzzy from it.

I defer to the company first, they sign my paycheck. So I am by no means a union die hard but if I ever find myself in the position to not allow a GJ in my place of work, you had better believe I will make every effort to keep you out.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Not trying to be a prick but, why not vote yes and try to negotiate after you had the flying and have more control over the situation??? i guess it is a mute point, hindsight is 20/20.

Asnswer this honestly and you'll get your answer.

Hulas started another company and began hiring street captains, who knew good and well where hurting your chance at upgrade to get the hell out of the region business, who had furlough protection over you even though you'd been there for several more years.

What would you think?

I was very much for a yes vote and was disappointed to see a no vote. I am of the thought to capture the flying first, fight for QOL and pay later. I mostly wanted it to have the chance to fly with you tools to say, "SOP callouts only."

 

[AirCobra]

"Indignation? Hardly. The routes being flown by regionals today were given up by some mainline guys who didn't want to be troubled by the 50-70 seat stuff. Not all the pilots, but that was the what scope allowed when the money was still good and there were no worries."

Turkey Shoot
You know this is not true. Mainline United took two 737's off ORD to IAD and replaced the with three RJ flights (nearly equal number of seats, lower paid pilots). United also did something similar in COS. You are also trying to tell me the AWAC flying for USAir is anywhere near the amount it did for United at ORD for the last 19 years. TSA, Mesa, and Skywset came in and underbid AWAC just like Go Jet is underbidding TSA. You were willing to fly United Mainline routes for less than half the pay a United FO makes. Well no wonder you fly ORD to IAD or ORD to DFW instead of places like Evansville and Champaign like in the old days. It is also why 43% of the United domestic flights out of ORD are UAX. Your company underbid mainline pilots, then you fly around in United colors, using United's reservation system to fill your planes, using United ground crews, and try to say that somehow you are better than Go Jet. You did something even dumber, if your goal is to work for a high paying major airline, well you just reduced your chances of ever doing that because United can get you to fly the same routes for $20.00 an hour.

I understand that that is the law of the jungle and I accept it, and I have never blamed a regional airline pilot for taking jobs away from anyone. Nor would I ever deny a jumpseat to TSA, Mesa, or Skywest. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the guys on here claiming they are better than Go Jet and making excuses like United pilots didn't want to fly 50 seat aircraft and that everything was just wonderful when you booted AWAC out of ORD. Give me a break!!!

 

[AirCobra]

I guess most of you Go Jet bashers are too young or have never been furloughed so let me explain some stuff to you. I have personally met two Go Jet pilots, one was a former Air Force veteran senior aviatior who had flown in the Gulf War and the other was a pilot furlouged from a major airline. Well if you or your 25 year old Captain feel good about denying a jumpseat to an Air Force combat veteran under some dubios labor dispute you cooked up, show some respect. Let's talk about the furloughed guy. When ALPA represented pilots are furloughed they go to non ALPA or non union airlines so they don't have to give up their seniority. Well that Go Jet guy you just booted may work for American, Delta, or United or he may be working for Go Jet until he can get on with Jet Blue or Fed Ex. You think he won't remember your harsh words or gestures. Maybe three years down the road you may be at that Captains board interview for Jet Blue and low and behold who is sitting across the table but the guy you booted. I know when your young its easy to act rashly and be impulsive but age will show you at times when you thought you were totally right you were totally wrong.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Indignation? Hardly. The routes being flown by regionals today were given up by some mainline guys who didn't want to be troubled by the 50-70 seat stuff. Not all the pilots, but that was the what scope allowed when the money was still good and there were no worries.

A common theme among regional pilots, twisted slightly.

True that mainline "gave up" the jets, but only because they were forced to in BK procedings. Up until 2001-02 mainline managed to keep the rj from replacing the mainline airplanes through contract language, hull number caps, and route restrictions. During BK the airlines gutted all that and the pilots had zero recourse or way to stop the wholesale furlough and gutting of their routes. At my airline the only restriction left was the number of seats in the rj..nothing left to control the # of RJ's.(That is the real killer part to our careers, all thanks to the BK rules)

Like it or not, the majority of rj pilots hired after 2001 got their job simply because of the 8000+ mainline pilots furloughed and the hundreds of mainline dc-9's, 737's, and such that were parked in favor of "cheap" labor (1000 hour kids in an rj) There has been no growth, the 2001 thru current rj jobs are not new, just transfers from the mainline.......a lot like the current G-jet mess.

 

[Shrek]

We would not sacrifice our already outdated contract and have yet another extention (with concessions) just to get 70 seat planes. We would of had THE WORST contract in the business.

We tried to reverse the trend but unfortunately there were eager pilots willing to bypass our seniority list and be part of the whipsaw. They seem giddy at the fact that TSA pilots are on the street.......and will probably have a "holdings appreciation Day BBQ" when the last TSA flight is flown.......

It breaks my heart to see it when a fellow pilot is the one puttin the knife in your back.

 

[Skippy]

ue500,

1. The mec presented the g0jet LOA roadshows with a neutral endorsement. I was there, along with some mgmt sent pilots. There is noone that can say the MEC didnt provide answers to questions and provide a neutral endorsement. The facts were presented. Many "what if" scenarios were explained. What was interesting is, it's hard to sell something that when pilots ask questions, they dont like the answers.