TSA SAT Flying given to G-Jets

[MaxPilot]

What I don't understand is why ALPA is not suing TSA and TSH for violating the TSA\ALPA pilot contract... as it clearly states that all flying for the company shall be by pilots on the current seniority list? The contract clearly states that no other company shall be created to circumvent the contract… as in TSH and GoJet.

Also, why hasn’t ALPA filed an appeal on our behalf regarding the single carrier petition as anyone with an open eye can see that GoJet and TSA are really operated by one company which the contract language prohibits?

 

[temcgrew]

UEJ500,

I am going to try and respond to your post. You have been vocal on this board opposing the g0jet pilots and on that, we are on the same page.

However, please don't insinuate that I don't care about my fellow TSA pilots.
Additionally, if you can't understand that taking a SIX YEAR CONTRACT extension is a bad thing, and had we done so, we would have successfully been whipsawed, than you are the one making dumb statements.

What good are those 150 pilot jobs flying larger and larger jets for a substandard contract from years and years ago? When does this end? In the year 2020? 2030? We were faced with a choice. Here is an idea.

VOTE.

We did. You don't like the results. I respect that. Please don't bash the 75% of your pilot group that sees things differently than you. We are independent thinkers and not pawns of ANYONE. Not the company, not the union. We live our life out on the line, and we make our decisions.

You think you saw the "light". You voted yes. I think you were wrong then and you are still wrong. I believe that some things are worth fighting for.

I'm right, your attitude is wrong. You still think you stood up for something when you really lost. I don't care anymore, don't plan on working for this company anymore or with an MEC that creates this atmosphere.

75% might have voted but I would say that the majority of those who voted no were fence sitters and now wish they could take it back.

The COL increase argument was a big issue. What COL increase are we getting now? NOTHING. What are we getting? More furloughs and pay cuts.

Our MEC sucks and you cannot defend them. The worse it get here and the more you try to paint a picture of us "winning" by voting no, the less credibility you have.

Here's another prediction:
The current MEC is done.

 

[Smarta$$]

Hey, Air Wisconsin just said no to a bad deal. GO jets will probably try to take there flying too.

 

[Smarta$$]

Alright kids:

Voting No or Yes has nothing to do with current situation. United needed 70 seat flying to be done. TSA started a company to provide that service. I don't like it either and I live with my decsion. We took a stand for what was right. Over done with. My life has continued fine with GJ around. But lets get this clear and straight. The flying given to GJ was "NEW" flying.

My problem is my brothers getting the "Can" while GJ is taking "OLD" flying done by TSA. This being done for a cheaper cost. So voting yes or no has no bearing on the current issue: TSA PILOTS BEING FURLOUGHED and FLYING BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM TSA PILOTS because it can be done cheaper by people that will sell themselves out for money and career.

I think my parents did a good job in raising me and teaching what is "right" and "wrong." This is clear cut "WRONG" So I don't continue to complain about GJ. They did what they had to do. I don't know them and I don't care. My problem is TSA management. BAckstabbing someone to get ahead is wrong. SO GIVE IT UP WITH THE SHOULD HAVE VOTED YES.

I care about my fellow pilots at TSA and every other airline pilot. We ALL have vision of what this job should be. And our choices to vote NO was in the best interest to preserve that vision, not sell it out.

So whoever you are, GJ or not, if you're selling yourself short in this field think about all the people that affected by your greed

I need a drink

Um, ok. How did Chautauqua and Mesa solve the same problem with one seniority list. That is the problem. And you are correct about them taking flying that was TSA and our guys with families to support are getting f-ed. All because we wanted to fight management for something other than a pile of sh!t.

 

[redbook]

I'm right, your attitude is wrong. You still think you stood up for something when you really lost. I don't care anymore, don't plan on working for this company anymore or with an MEC that creates this atmosphere.

75% might have voted but I would say that the majority of those who voted no were fence sitters and now wish they could take it back.

The COL increase argument was a big issue. What COL increase are we getting now? NOTHING. What are we getting? More furloughs and pay cuts.

Our MEC sucks and you cannot defend them. The worse it get here and the more you try to paint a picture of us "winning" by voting no, the less credibility you have.

Here's another prediction:
The current MEC is done.

I am not "painting a picture". I am reminding you of your fellow pilot's stand. They voted 75% no. Keep attacking everyone's credibility and ignore these basic facts, and its your credibility that is suffering.

You never responded to how far you would go. Would you take a one hundred year extension? Do you just want to fly a 70 seat jet regardless of pay?

What do you want?

For someone who bemoans all the personal attacks, you are pretty good at dispensing them.

And blaming the MEC for our "atmosphere". That is just classic David H. Our "atmosphere" would be great if we signed that 100 year extension right?

 

[Shrek]

More flying at ANY cost is not the way to go.......

That is what I believe and will never change that viewpoint. You can agree or disagree to that point of view.......

Our MEC did nothing but put an LOA to a vote with a neutral endorsement. BUT anybody could see it was a bad deal as was mentioned earlier.

Remember almost 8 out of 10 pilots agree that voted......that says a lot.

To think that the TSA MEC has that much influence over the pilot group is unrealistic.......and to those that did NOT vote well you gave up the right to complain in my book........

Get INVOLVED in your union or you can just post here......your choice.

 

[rsspilot]

I am not "painting a picture". I am reminding you of your fellow pilot's stand. They voted 75% no. Keep attacking everyone's credibility and ignore these basic facts, and its your credibility that is suffering.

You never responded to how far you would go. Would you take a one hundred year extension? Do you just want to fly a 70 seat jet regardless of pay?

What do you want?

For someone who bemoans all the personal attacks, you are pretty good at dispensing them.

And blaming the MEC for our "atmosphere". That is just classic David H. Our "atmosphere" wold be great if we signed that 100 year extension right?

Flying is flying....gj pilots didnt take any flying from anybody...they applied for a job....interviewed...offered and accepted. America is built on people working hard, gaining experience and moving on to greener pastures.....We all have to start somewhere. It is not possible to get the dream job right out of the gate. U are being very unreasonable to expect anyone to see your side when you are gainfully employed and advancing your careers and the rest of us were trying to start ours.
We didnt take anyones flying.....we are working at industry average wages for an industry standard contract and most will move on within two to three years.....U voted that u didnt want to fly the larger jet for the same pay and that is great for you. U shouldnt be on here bashing us for taking a job when we were unemployed and trying to build a career.

A lot of us might have elected no, like you did, if we were already flying in the industry but I for one could care less if others took the job...I would be happy with what i have and not be concerned for what others are trying to achieve. It is selfish of you to have your but not want others to have a chance at theirs.

You voted NO now get over it and move on......Fly your jets, build your experience and go home on your off days and be with your family...quit spreading all your hatred it really makes you look bitter and sad.

 

[redbook]

You voted NO now get over it and move on......Fly your jets, build your experience and go home on your off days and be with your family...quit spreading all your hatred it really makes you look bitter and sad.

We voted no. We are not over it and we won't forget. That is your intent, but we don't plan on following the advice of alter ego pilots.

You are hoping that the stigma of your actions won't follow you. Sorry. Don't be bitter and sad when it does.

 

[PCL_128]

Why are we even bothering to discuss this with these SCABs? They aren't even worthy of conversation. Let them rot at HoJet for the rest of their careers.

 

[ual321]

It's all the UAL Pilots fault.

 

[TSA ERJ]

rsspilot,
You are not working under any contract and are only limited by the FAR's, that is not industry standard. You can try and justify your actions any way you want but you know as well as I do that there were other, much better places to go, so don't act like you had no choice. On the other hand, if you have the history that I've heard most of the GJ pilots have, then maybe it was your only option.

You are looked down on because you are helping management in preventing pilots from improving their lives. Achieving meaningful contractual improvements for all regional pilots has been made much more difficult due to your selfishness and I will do my best to ensure that your decision is one you have to live with for the rest of your career. If you are smart, you will start applying to other regionals and hope the damage done is minimal.

If you think you are going to be anywhere other than another regional in 2 to 3 years, then you have a lot to figure out. Good luck.

 

[rsspilot]

rsspilot,
You are not working under any contract and are only limited by the FAR's, that is not industry standard. You can try and justify your actions any way you want but you know as well as I do that there were other, much better places to go, so don't act like you had no choice. On the other hand, if you have the history that I've heard most of the GJ pilots have, then maybe it was your only option.



We are supposed to improve our lives by gaining valuable experience and then move on. Your goal should not be to spend a career at a low wage regional airline......U have the wrong attitude. You have many options to get a much better paying job than what any regional job has to offer once you get you jet time. How many people at any regional plan on spending their whole career there....not many.

As far as insulting our pilots by saying that they are not employable at other airlines I would have to ask you to take a look at the typical class at skywest, or pinnacle, or any other regional show me how many of them have over five thousand hours total, two thousand turbine, and a college degree with no suspensions or revocations. Probably none....gj was the only company in the last two years that wasn't a corporate operator that would even give an interview.

You can say that others wouldnt interview me because im a loser or whatever you want but the bottom line is that gj has provided me a better qol than my previous night freight hauling lear jet/ mu-2 job that i had previously. Its easy for guys with airline jobs building 121 pic time to tell others not to take a job when they are happily building their time. If it is so lousy than why are you still doing it....as you say there are plenty of other jobs out there than your so called lousy regional job.

I am happy that I am working at gj and now have a great quality of life no matter what you wanna say.....i wish the same for you.

I still dont understand why you wanna constantly bash us......why dont you go after your management instead....We arent your problem.

 

[TSA ERJ]

You are the problem, that's what you fail to understand. You enabled management in preventing QOL and other improvements, not only at TSA but other regionals as well. Without you and others like you there would not be a whipsaw. I have no plans on spending a career at TSA, but I am commited to improving the quality of life, contractual benefits and pay as long as I am here. You personally have undermined that. Knowingly or unknowingly you have hurt your career thinking you are helping it. Good luck

By the way our management is your management, so if you don't heed what the TSA pilots have to say you'll learn the hard way.

 

[punkpilot48]

What does any of this matter.

If the vote was yes the same 48 guys and girls would be out on the street. And the same two airplanes would be parked.

None of the furloughes ever got a chance to vote either.

 

[arthompson]

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt. Those UAL 737s were replaced with AWAC RJs because you voted away your scope language willingly.

You gave your flying away. The TSA pilots had it stolen from them. Big difference.

PCL just to be clear AWAC never flew ORD-IAD in the RJ, they did however fly MKE-IAD after a 10 year hiatus.

 

[oceandude]

Get Over It!! Get A Life!

 

[Shrek]

I am not building PIC time because of G0jet .....but THAT is not what is at issue.

Because of your "me me me" attitude you have brought this industry down a little bit......the more you grow the worse you will affect it. The regional sector of this industry is destroying the top end "major airline" jobs.

Less and less at the next level and then........poof no big iron job for any of us.......thanks.

Had a Piedmont jumpseater in the cockpit today talking about how his buddy took a street captain job over at G0jet in March. He told him he needed to get that jet PIC time to get on at FedEx. Never even gave it a second thought.......backstabbing at its best.

Well he just hasn't got it yet.....he just slammed the door over there for him.....he just doesn't know it yet.

Who represents FedEx over there......hmm

 

[oceandude]

Shrek, you need to get l@id!

 

[redbook]

Shrek, you need to get l@id!

For someone who got rejected by Air wisoconsin and numerous other airlines, and was whimpering about leaving aviation a few short months ago,
joining an alter ego sure has made you mouthy, dude.

 

[okrosa]

*******************************************

 

[okrosa]

I am not building PIC time because of G0jet .....but THAT is not what is at issue.

Because of your "me me me" attitude you have brought this industry down a little bit......the more you grow the worse you will affect it. The regional sector of this industry is destroying the top end "major airline" jobs.

Less and less at the next level and then........poof no big iron job for any of us.......thanks.

Had a Piedmont jumpseater in the cockpit today talking about how his buddy took a street captain job over at G0jet in March. He told him he needed to get that jet PIC time to get on at FedEx. Never even gave it a second thought.......backstabbing at its best.

Well he just hasn't got it yet.....he just slammed the door over there for him.....he just doesn't know it yet.

Who represents FedEx over there......hmm

FedEx will not happen for him!

 

[Shrek]

Oceandude.........you need to grow up - you have never met me.......doubt you would have the cohones to say that to my face.

Kinda childish to throw that comment on a website don't ya think?

 

[D'Angelo]

I say good for management and their idea to create alter egos. It helps keep wild out of control unions in check.

 

[vrb115]

SHREK its a 1 !! need i say more

 

[punkpilot48]

I say good for management and their idea to create alter egos. It helps keep wild out of control unions in check.

Thats easy to say since you haven't lost your job because of one.

 

[D'Angelo]

Thats easy to say since you haven't lost your job because of one.

I havent yet however the future all depends on getting the F/As dealt with. They will be soon enough. If unions would start being reasonable then these things wouldn't be happening. On a side note Go-Jets was created because of AAs retarded scope clause wasn't it? If theres anyone to blame its mainline and their scope clauses. Whats the point of having one if all it takes is a new certificate to get around it? If they hadn't had that scope clause then there would be no reason to create Go-Jet. When the pilots wouldnt deal though management simply did what they were supposed to. Get the best deal possible.

 

[Shrek]

SHREK its a 1 !! need i say more

Lotta ONES out there...let me tell ya.....lol

 

[oceandude]

REDBOOK, i never tried going to air w . u r confusing me with someone else! wahhhhhhhhhh.......

 

[Shrek]

That is a shame........ AWAC is a MUCH better regional.

But instead........Alter Ego - awesome choice TOOL

 

[ATTCS]

One segment of all of this TSA/Gayjet business is whatever makes Gayjet folks think TSH management will abide by any contract they come up with? Look at the history......So some folks think it is OK to break contracts, negotiations, binding arbitrations that they don't like? In this industry whatever happens at one airline you can guarantee the rest of the industry's management is taking a very close look, watching, learning and thinking.

Hey Shrek, how's your sheep farm doing.......