Travel Management, a danger to us all....

[gret]

nope WJS, see below

In American high schools, it is becoming increasingly hard to defend the vanishing of shop class from the curriculum. The trend began in the 1970s, when it became conventional wisdom that a four-year college degree was essential. As Forbes magazine reported in 2012, 90% of shop classes have been eliminated for the Los Angeles unified school district's 660,000 students. Yet a 2012 Bureau of Labor Statistics study shows that 48% of all college graduates are working in jobs that don't require a four-year degree.

Too many young people have four-year liberal-arts degrees, are thousands of dollars in debt and find themselves serving coffee at Staarbucks. A good trade to consider: welding. I recently visited Pioneer Pipe in the Utica and Marcellus shale area of Ohio and learned that last year the company paid 60 of its welders more than $150,000 and two of its welders over $200,000. The owner, Dave Archer, said he has had to turn down orders because he can't find enough skilled welders.

link to entire article
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579501801872226532

As stated before if a college degree does not lead to a high poaying job, it is waste of money

Well done Yip! People hate facts and would rather deal with perceptions!

 

[jonjuan]

Well, it seems we've now identified 2 posters who don't have a 4 year degree and are trying to justify not having one.

 

[imacdog]

Wow YIP, way to show that folks getting a liberals arts degree might end up working a job not requiring a degree. What amazing insight. Let us know when you get around to figuring out exactly what that has to do with the discussion here. If not, go away.

 

[BentOver]

Guy who doesn't believe in college degrees helping your career......

1)works at a 5th rate cargo company flying rubber dog pooh to Mexico..

2) thinks he's paid enough and doesn't get why anyone would want more

3) has basically two opinions to share on every thread he joins. ( people whinng about their QOL and college degrees....)

Any new/ young pilot considering taking YIP's advice...don't... You'll end up believing Regional captain pay is big money, and won't be able to figure out why no reputable carrier will call you for an interview. Unless you're married to a sugar mama, have family money, or want to remain single forever, you'll eventually want to make more than $60-$90k a year.. Especially considering the time/effort/money that go into flying.

 

[BentOver]

Well done Yip! People hate facts and would rather deal with perceptions!

You really want to compare the difference between welding for a living and flying... It appears somebody has never put in a real days work.. Heck we should just all work jack hammers, driving steel rivets into the side of bridges... Heard they make decent money too..

Willing to bet the number of welders who would rather fly an airplane FAR exceeds the number of pilots who wished they just became welders..

But by all means, go spend the next 30 years welding.. It'll be fun.

 

[gret]

Are we having the same conversation?

The point isn't about the value of a college degree, but that having one doesn't entitle you to anything....you have to use it to your advantage (it better be in an area where there is a demand) and with the other skills you possess and/or develop, hopefully you will have a financially successful career that brings much satisfaction. You can also achieve this by developing a trade.

Looking down on those that work in the trades is being pretty shortsighted....go express you views on the matter to your favorite A&P and see what he has to say about your mother.

It appears it may come to a shock to some, but not everybody has a desire to become a pilot...yup it's true...other professions have greater attraction to people...hard to believe...

 

[BentOver]

Looking down on those that work in the trades is being pretty shortsighted....go express you views on the matter to your favorite A&P and see what he has to say about your mother.

It appears it may come to a shock to some, but not everybody has a desire to become a pilot...yup it's true...other professions have greater attraction to people...hard to believe...

Well, since we have already been on a tit-for-tat...

I've worked in a factory.. 7:30am - 4:30.... Rolling in tired, needing that first 10 cups of coffee.. Watching the clock, praying for that first break, then lunch, then the end of the day.. Day in, day out... I did it to help pay for COLLEGE.

Grandfather worked in metal plant, which probably is what ultimately killed him.. Father still works construction, day in, day out.. Coming home greasy every night, sore, tired.... NEither of them had any college. My father makes good money, above six figures.. Which is great for someone with no education... But there's not one second of one day he doesn't wish he was doing what I am doing.... He's proud and jealous at the same time.

No, not everyone aspires to be a pilot. Some have no idea how to go about it, some don't want to take on the debt, some don't have the temperament, and some don't want to be away from home... Some have better careers, like doctors, maybe an occasional lawyer, business leaders. Etc etc... Most, if not all have better careers because of a college education... And before you throw out Bill Gates, or the Facebook guy, those are the very very rare exceptions.

My point to YIP is, although it doesn't take a degree to fly an a/c, it typically wil take college to reach the cream of the crop jobs.. Which is evident by where those without degrees typically end up working.. Not all, but the vast majority.

And any young aspiring pilot, thinking of foregoing college, just to get into a beat up Falcon to head down to Mexico, should think twice.... 15 yrs from now they may be scratching their head as to why no Legacy will call.. Or why Walmart is not inviting them to their flight department... Because most majors expect a degree, and many reputable corporate departments do as well.

And until YIP is on the hiring board of any reputable carrier or department, it will remain that way whether he likes it or not..

 

[gret]

Well, since we have already been on a tit-for-tat...

I've worked in a factory.. 7:30am - 4:30.... Rolling in tired, needing that first 10 cups of coffee.. Watching the clock, praying for that first break, then lunch, then the end of the day.. Day in, day out... I did it to help pay for COLLEGE.

Grandfather worked in metal plant, which probably is what ultimately killed him.. Father still works construction, day in, day out.. Coming home greasy every night, sore, tired.... NEither of them had any college. My father makes good money, above six figures.. Which is great for someone with no education... But there's not one second of one day he doesn't wish he was doing what I am doing.... He's proud and jealous at the same time.

No, not everyone aspires to be a pilot. Some have no idea how to go about it, some don't want to take on the debt, some don't have the temperament, and some don't want to be away from home... Some have better careers, like doctors, maybe an occasional lawyer, business leaders. Etc etc... Most, if not all have better careers because of a college education... And before you throw out Bill Gates, or the Facebook guy, those are the very very rare exceptions.

My point to YIP is, although it doesn't take a degree to fly an a/c, it typically wil take college to reach the cream of the crop jobs.. Which is evident by where those without degrees typically end up working.. Not all, but the vast majority.

And any young aspiring pilot, thinking of foregoing college, just to get into a beat up Falcon to head down to Mexico, should think twice.... 15 yrs from now they may be scratching their head as to why no Legacy will call.. Or why Walmart is not inviting them to their flight department... Because most majors expect a degree, and many reputable corporate departments do as well.

And until YIP is on the hiring board of any reputable carrier or department, it will remain that way whether he likes it or not..

Got it!

We're in agreement...everyone should get as much education as possible as their chances of success are increased considerably. I thought the conversation was drifting elsewhere.

Never worked in a factory...did spend countless hours on a tractor cultivating/picking soybeans/corn and feeding beef cattle/hogs to pay for a business degree at a Big Ten school.

 

[pilotyip]

Well done Yip! People hate facts and would rather deal with perceptions!

Thank you

My point to YIP is, although it doesn't take a degree to fly an a/c, it typically wil take college to reach the cream of the crop jobs

Thank you also, we agree on something. As far as the cream of the crop jobs yes you probably need a degree, but it can be an on-line degree in gender studies from Bumble Bee State. As longs as it checks the box. It is not needed until the last step, so why to go to college rack up $100K+ of student debt when this can be done on-line while building time is just another way to get that degree. BTW as far as those low life DA-20 drivers at my place without college degrees here is where they are now flying, some as Captain, Spirit, JB, SWA, VA, UAL, NJ, AT, Atlas,. All these are smart airlines that look at the "Whole man concept" instead of some HR specialist who only looks for the checked box in the lower left corner as proof of pure superiority.

Well, it seems we've now identified 2 posters who don't have a 4 year degree and are trying to justify not having one.

not Gret and I? Both Big Ten graduates,

Got it!

We're in agreement...everyone should get as much education as possible as their chances of success are increased considerably. I thought the conversation was drifting elsewhere.

Never worked in a factory...did spend countless hours on a tractor cultivating/picking soybeans/corn and feeding beef cattle/hogs to pay for a business degree at a Big Ten school.

But all education is not strickly college, there are many other ways to develope skills that lead to good jobs. Then again we have the 48%, as per above in the WSJ, who went to college and have no marketable skills beyound that of a high school graduate.

 

[Praetorian]

nope WJS, see below

In American high schools, it is becoming increasingly hard to defend the vanishing of shop class from the curriculum. The trend began in the 1970s, when it became conventional wisdom that a four-year college degree was essential. As Forbes magazine reported in 2012, 90% of shop classes have been eliminated for the Los Angeles unified school district's 660,000 students. Yet a 2012 Bureau of Labor Statistics study shows that 48% of all college graduates are working in jobs that don't require a four-year degree.

Too many young people have four-year liberal-arts degrees, are thousands of dollars in debt and find themselves serving coffee at Staarbucks. A good trade to consider: welding. I recently visited Pioneer Pipe in the Utica and Marcellus shale area of Ohio and learned that last year the company paid 60 of its welders more than $150,000 and two of its welders over $200,000. The owner, Dave Archer, said he has had to turn down orders because he can't find enough skilled welders.

link to entire article
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579501801872226532

As stated before if a college degree does not lead to a high poaying job, it is waste of money

You understand that that is short term work right? A welding gig so to speak. Soon as those wells dry up the job ends. Certainly not a career.

 

[pilotyip]

You understand that that is short term work right? A welding gig so to speak. Soon as those wells dry up the job ends. Certainly not a career.

and your point is? that a college educated pilot has more job security?

 

[acaTerry]

As far a raising the bar, I am happy with my local bar and their $1.00 drafts, why would I want to raise their price? Life is good.:laugh:

Well you already have NJA beat...many NJA pilots can never go out for that beer because of our 12 hour rule and because the overnights are most often 10 hrs.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Bent
My buddy is a welder for the Ironworkers. He's been to Russia, Alaska and a bunch of interesting places. He retired at age 50 and can now pick his jobs. Bechtel called him to go to Fukishima, but he declined. 85.00/hour plus housing, per diem and travel.Its about his QOL. He passed his test in NY and doesn't have to do a 6 month physical or a checkride anymore.
And Bent, they started phasing out rivets in the 1940's.

 

[Praetorian]

And Bent, they started phasing out rivets in the 1940's.

It's all ball bearings nowadays.

http://youtu.be/4prqDn7QS8I

 

[rajflyboy]

TM is essentially a job for young pilots building time. With a down economy the pilots unfortunately get stuck there until the hiring kicks in again.

14 ON is too much for a typical family to handle for any long term employment. This type of job leads to divorce in many cases.

TM is as safe as any other corporate jet operator.

The hiring is getting good again. I hope you guys find great flying jobs in the coming months and years. Now is your time to get hired!

 

[pilotyip]

It's all ball bearings nowadays.

As if was on 8-17-43 when Eaker sent the B-17's to Schweinfurt in order destroy the Ball Bearing Industry in Germany. We all know how well that worked out.

 

[brokeflyer]

TM is as safe as any other corporate jet operator.

lol......thats not what i hear going on.

 

[I fLy pLaNeS]

I doubt seriously if TM has a fatigue policy..but if you don't fly on a duty day, you don't get paid there....so onward they fly.

Read the link on nbaa and fatigue I posted. 15 day is dangerous, period!

Totally inaccurate! You get paid for every day you're on duty, flying or not. And if you wanted to fatigue, you can say so and go into rest.

 

[brokeflyer]

Totally inaccurate! You get paid for every day you're on duty, flying or not. And if you wanted to fatigue, you can say so and go into rest.

haha permanent rest at the unemployment office.

 

[CMI]

Totally inaccurate! You get paid for every day you're on duty, flying or not. And if you wanted to fatigue, you can say so and go into rest.

Enjoy the ride! Blaze onward. "Only YOU can prevent forest fires".

http:// http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Bear

 

[rufus]

Travel Management pilots are losers In 10 years when you say I don't make enough money where ever you are, think back to your Travel Management days and know you F'Ed up for us all

 

[pilotyip]

Travel Management pilots are losers In 10 years when you say I don't make enough money where ever you are, think back to your Travel Management days and know you F'Ed up for us all

Yes TA pilots have single handedly destroyed the aviation industry. It is all their fault.

 

[mainiac]

Travel Management pilots are losers In 10 years when you say I don't make enough money where ever you are, think back to your Travel Management days and know you F'Ed up for us all

You know when I felt like a loser. When I found myself out of a job at 48 years old, and was not gonna be paying my bills in about 3 months. Gotta do what you need to do for your family. "Pilot shortage hiring boom" hasn't been playing at a theatre near me quite yet.

Jeez, gimme a break.

 

[pilotyip]

You know when I felt like a loser. When I found myself out of a job at 48 years old, and was not gonna be paying my bills in about 3 months. Gotta do what you need to do for your family. "Pilot shortage hiring boom" hasn't been playing at a theatre near me quite yet.

Jeez, gimme a break.

yes but to gain the respect or rufus and the "brotherhood", you should have let your family starve to death. People feeding their families is part of the big problem in this industry, it makes you take the less than perfect job.

 

[skier17]

Travel Management pilots are losers In 10 years when you say I don't make enough money where ever you are, think back to your Travel Management days and know you F'Ed up for us all

I noticed you've flown the CL65, also known as the CRJ. Remind me again what guys are getting paid to fly those things?? But seriously, it's 200 guys flying for some charter company that screwed it up for everybody else.

 

[SharkRider]

Dufus, Based on aircraft flown, you must either be one of the 5%ers at NJA that think you are gods gift to aviation, or you got lucky and were in the right place at the right time to land the 2000 and G whiz job. Folks like Mainiac are doing what they need to do to provide for their families, others to get that coveted jet time. Tell me Dufus, what do you suggest someone does when the jobs out there require jet time or time in type? Can't get the job without the type, can't get the type without the job (unless you buy the type,,, is that what you did?), and NJA hasn't hired for a while. Either way, pretty darn sure I wouldn't want to share the cockpit with a person with elitist views such as yours.

 

[AftCG182]

Travel Management pilots are losers In 10 years when you say I don't make enough money where ever you are, think back to your Travel Management days and know you F'Ed up for us all

As usual, we shared a van to the Crowne here in White Stains yesterday with a bunch of NJ guys. Of the three NJ crews in the van, not a single person had a problem with us as TMC pilots.

It was openly discussed that NJ's decision to outsource flying to TMC is having an effect on your operations, but the guys were very clear that it wasn't being held against us as individuals. "Bad business" they called it.

Maybe you should re-think your statement. Makes you look stupid. And, if you are indeed NJ, you certainly don't represent your co-workers very well...

 

[I fLy pLaNeS]

I noticed you've flown the CL65, also known as the CRJ. Remind me again what guys are getting paid to fly those things?? But seriously, it's 200 guys flying for some charter company that screwed it up for everybody else.

Probably anti-union also, but as soon as he's in a bind he's praying the union bails him out..

 

[flyinboxes]

They fly for EJM and NEtJets because Berkshire Hathaway bought Pete Liegl's RV company. There will never be a union at TMC. He would shut the company down before dealing with a union. Just look at his RV factory's. No Unions.

I need an RV. Are they any good? What brand are they?

 

[rajflyboy]

I need an RV. Are they any good? What brand are they?

get an Airstream

the best RV's available