Travel Management, a danger to us all....

[luckydog]

No. We would first need to GET vacation days before they could take them away from us. You call in fatigued and you get the day off, pretty simple. It's amazing some of the insane rumors people will start.

Implying you don't even GET vacation days is a good way to start an insane rumor. And if that's not a rumor, then it is INSANE.

 

[imacdog]

No. We would first need to GET vacation days before they could take them away from us. You call in fatigued and you get the day off, pretty simple. It's amazing some of the insane rumors people will start.

I think I'd go with that insane rumor, versus the insane reality that you don't get vacation days.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

If you leave, you'll lose all those free T-shirts and Atlantic bucks

 

[Skippy]

The two week rotation was hard, but thats why its called work.
I never had a problem with fatigue. I think i used it legitamately 2x in three years-never questioned me.

 

[ghostrider64]

No. We would first need to GET vacation days before they could take them away from us. You call in fatigued and you get the day off, pretty simple. It's amazing some of the insane rumors people will start.

Sounds like "the rumors" are actually facts. The reality is NJA is a decent place, not great. Having TM pick up hundreds of our trips, is a direct assault on our present QOL. Those are indeed "FACTS".

As for the brave who profess 15 days straight isn't a big deal, all the experts, including the NBAA disagree strongly with you.

Personally I've seen a few TM crews approaching that 15 day mark, I assure you they aren't going home feeling as good as the day they went on the road. They looked beaten.

Until you at TM realize that you are indeed hurting our industry, and take up a cause reflecting your desire to change, you'll not see many friends in those QS planes....FACT but once you do, you'll have 3000 new friends...also a FACT

 

[AftCG182]

Implying you don't even GET vacation days is a good way to start an insane rumor. And if that's not a rumor, then it is INSANE.

It's not a rumor. I guess that Management's rationale is "You get a two week vacation every month." I'm still a new guy at TMC, still happy to be employed after almost six months of unemployment after the Avantair debacle. As such, I'm still getting a feel for repeated 15/13 rotations. So far it's not too bad. Not ready to express an opinion on this topic just yet.

Sounds like "the rumors" are actually facts. The reality is NJA is a decent place, not great. Having TM pick up hundreds of our trips, is a direct assault on our present QOL. Those are indeed "FACTS".

As for the brave who profess 15 days straight isn't a big deal, all the experts, including the NBAA disagree strongly with you.

Personally I've seen a few TM crews approaching that 15 day mark, I assure you they aren't going home feeling as good as the day they went on the road. They looked beaten.

Until you at TM realize that you are indeed hurting our industry, and take up a cause reflecting your desire to change, you'll not see many friends in those QS planes....FACT but once you do, you'll have 3000 new friends...also a FACT

I've shared lots of van space with NJ crews. Same blend of friendly and disgruntled guys that I shared van space with when I was back at Avantair. No open hostility so far.

On that note, I just fly the trips that are assigned to me. I don't salivate over one trip versus another. As far as I can tell, nobody does. There's no personal satisfaction about picking up a NJ trip, XO trip, whatever.

 

[el raton]

What does it pay? I heard a 4 year FO makes ~$40k.

 

[johnsonrod]

Is TMC experiencing more attrition than normal given all of the other hiring in the industry (ie airlines)? That schedule sounds less than optimal for anyone with a family...

 

[shanes123]

sounds less than optimal for anyone with a life

 

[NJAowner]

How many trips can TMC cover for NJA? Isn't the TMC fleet just 400XPs and 800XPs?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Is TMC experiencing more attrition than normal given all of the other hiring in the industry (ie airlines)? That schedule sounds less than optimal for anyone with a family...

I'd imagine so. A good friend of mine just punched out from TMC earlier this month after being picked up by a reputable 121 carrier. He said that there was no way he could face a 15/15 schedule long term, even though he was in the process of upgrading there.

His most telling anecdote: He stated that when he turned in his two weeks notice that TMC told him, "don't bother coming in - your employment is over right now, please return all of your company property immediately." I told him that statement was the perfect validation of his decision to part ways with TMC.

 

[imacdog]

How many trips can TMC cover for NJA? Isn't the TMC fleet just 400XPs and 800XPs?

As many as NJA wants them to, up to 11 days per calendar quarter without NJA having to bring any of its own furloughed pilots back on property.

 

[pilotyip]

Is TMC experiencing more attrition than normal given all of the other hiring in the industry (ie airlines)? That schedule sounds less than optimal for anyone with a family...

How come guys are standing in line to get hired at Atlas, Kalitta Int'l, and other ACMI carriers with their 17 day on and 14 day offf?

 

[jonjuan]

How come guys are standing in line to get hired at Atlas, Kalitta Int'l, and other ACMI carriers with their 17 day on and 14 day offf?

Lack of a college degree.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Ohhhhhh snap

 

[AftCG182]

As many as NJA wants them to, up to 11 days per calendar quarter without NJA having to bring any of its own furloughed pilots back on property.

Ok, now I see where some of the hard feelings might be coming from. I can assure you that the TMC pilot group wants all of the NJ-furloughed-folks back to work ASAP. Again, we're just flying the trips that are assigned to us.

Rather than having a beef with TMC crews, seems like your aggravation might be better focused on the NJ crews that are flying extended/additional days. Their OT is probably delaying the return of the furloughed folks more than anything that TMC does...

 

[jonjuan]

Outsourcing to the lowest bidder with the lowest costs.

 

[imacdog]

Ok, now I see where some of the hard feelings might be coming from. I can assure you that the TMC pilot group wants all of the NJ-furloughed-folks back to work ASAP. Again, we're just flying the trips that are assigned to us.

Rather than having a beef with TMC crews, seems like your aggravation might be better focused on the NJ crews that are flying extended/additional days. Their OT is probably delaying the return of the furloughed folks more than anything that TMC does...

No, simply explaining how NJA is degrading their owners' experience by subcontracting out flights to other operators, and how they are able to continue to do so. I have no beef with TMC crews, more at NJA for not giving their owners the experience and service they are paying for.

 

[BentOver]

Ok, now I see where some of the hard feelings might be coming from. I can assure you that the TMC pilot group wants all of the NJ-furloughed-folks back to work ASAP. Again, we're just flying the trips that are assigned to us.

Rather than having a beef with TMC crews, seems like your aggravation might be better focused on the NJ crews that are flying extended/additional days. Their OT is probably delaying the return of the furloughed folks more than anything that TMC does...

Weren't you the guy saying Avantair was the greatest, and when they were hiring while everyone else was furloughing, you boasted the fact that even though the pay and QOL at Avaintair was less, atleast they were hiring..

Cannot remember if it was you or not.... Just remember one guy in particular who was endlessly gloating about Avantair

 

[AftCG182]

Weren't you the guy saying Avantair was the greatest, and when they were hiring while everyone else was furloughing, you boasted the fact that even though the pay and QOL at Avaintair was less, atleast they were hiring..

Cannot remember if it was you or not.... Just remember one guy in particular who was endlessly gloating about Avantair

No, not gloating about Avantair. I was just expressing pride in my employer at the time. Never bitched about the pay or QOL there... Made damn near six-figures flying a 12,000 pound turboprop. Nothing wrong with that at all. If you search all of my posts, never once did I ever speak poorly of the other Frac operators. Ever.

So here I am defending TMC, my new current employer, from baseless accusations of poor safety & maintenance practices, inaccurate descriptions of our compensation, and totally false claims that TMC crews are trying to stick it to the NJ and Flexjet crews.

To repeat what I've said several times before... I wish all of us the greatest success in our careers. There are enough rich folks to go around for everyone. There's no need for this bickering between Frac/Charter operators.

 

[SDCFI]

Pilots: looking down on each other since 1903!

 

[NJAowner]

My question wasn't about the actual number of trips TMC can cover but the types. The 400XPs can't cover much so is it mainly the 800XPs covering trips for the 800XP, Excel and smaller fleets?

 

[pilotyip]

Lack of a college degree.

a college degree has nothing to do with days off, well except if you have one you might have a lot of days off because you cannot find a job with a degree in gender studies.

 

[CMI]

I thought this thread was about the safety implications of a 15 day rotation?

 

[BentOver]

a college degree has nothing to do with days off, well except if you have one you might have a lot of days off because you cannot find a job with a degree in gender studies.

Better companies typically give you more days off.... Or at least better schedules.

Do we really need to have another discussion about how you typically qualify for the better companies? You're not that naive are you?

 

[pilotyip]

Better companies typically give you more days off.... Or at least better schedules.

Do we really need to have another discussion about how you typically qualify for the better companies? You're not that naive are you?

Hey I didn't start this, Am I supposed to just standby when taking a shot across the bow?

Lack of a college degree.

According the WSJ, 48% of the recent college graduates are working in jobs that do not require a college degree, like serving coffee at Starbucks, however skilled welders coming of a community college are starting a $100K. But they are not college grads so they will never amount to anything like a coffee server at Starbucks.

 

[jonjuan]

Hey I didn't start this, Am I supposed to just standby when taking a shot across the bow?



According the WSJ, 48% of the recent college graduates are working in jobs that do not require a college degree, like serving coffee at Starbucks, however skilled welders coming of a community college are starting a $100K. But they are not college grads so they will never amount to anything like a coffee server at Starbucks.

Hence the pilots lined up at lower tier jobs. You're starting to get it, yip.

 

[pilotyip]

Hence the pilots lined up at lower tier jobs. You're starting to get it, yip.

nope don't get it, are pilots like welders making 100K, or like college grads at Starbucks making 15K?

 

[Praetorian]

Hey I didn't start this, Am I supposed to just standby when taking a shot across the bow?



According the WSJ, 48% of the recent college graduates are working in jobs that do not require a college degree, like serving coffee at Starbucks, however skilled welders coming of a community college are starting a $100K. But they are not college grads so they will never amount to anything like a coffee server at Starbucks.

I think you pulled that $100k number out of your a$$.

 

[pilotyip]

I think you pulled that $100k number out of your a$$.

nope WJS, see below

In American high schools, it is becoming increasingly hard to defend the vanishing of shop class from the curriculum. The trend began in the 1970s, when it became conventional wisdom that a four-year college degree was essential. As Forbes magazine reported in 2012, 90% of shop classes have been eliminated for the Los Angeles unified school district's 660,000 students. Yet a 2012 Bureau of Labor Statistics study shows that 48% of all college graduates are working in jobs that don't require a four-year degree.

Too many young people have four-year liberal-arts degrees, are thousands of dollars in debt and find themselves serving coffee at Staarbucks. A good trade to consider: welding. I recently visited Pioneer Pipe in the Utica and Marcellus shale area of Ohio and learned that last year the company paid 60 of its welders more than $150,000 and two of its welders over $200,000. The owner, Dave Archer, said he has had to turn down orders because he can't find enough skilled welders.

link to entire article
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579501801872226532

As stated before if a college degree does not lead to a high poaying job, it is waste of money