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Trans States vs. G0Jets Hipocracy
- Thread starter Angus
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- Watchers 18
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airjackson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2002
- Posts
- 226
Anus,
As soon as TSA puts the first 70 seater in AA colors, you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, your posts are nothing but the worthless drivel you accuse others of. You clearly have no grasp of the situation or this industry. Go educate yourself. Or, if that proves too difficult, go f-ck yourself. Cheers.
As soon as TSA puts the first 70 seater in AA colors, you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, your posts are nothing but the worthless drivel you accuse others of. You clearly have no grasp of the situation or this industry. Go educate yourself. Or, if that proves too difficult, go f-ck yourself. Cheers.
Tsk...tsk...tsk....
Wow.... such profound, intelligent and professional responses from the scablike Trans States Pilots. I say "scab" because this is the word THEY choose for Pilots who end around their CBA.
Here is an exchange heard round the terminal:
American Eagle Pilot: Hey... you TSA Pilots are flying Jets that were originally OURS, on our routes circumventing OUR CBA. What gives?
TSA Pilot: (Looks down) Yeah i know.... our management is really messed up. There is NOTHING we can do. Its just business you know.
American Eagle Pilot: Yeah whatever....
Next
American Pilot: Hey... your company did an end around on our CBA and are flying 70 seaters which is bad for the industry and which is why we tried to scope it. What gives?
TSA Pilot: (Looks down) Yeah I know.... our management is really messed up. There is NOTHING we can do. Its just business you know.
American Pilot: Yeah whatever....
Next
TSA Pilot: (Angrily) Hey... G0Jets Pilots are flying OUR flying and doing an end around on our CBA.... which makes YOU a scab. I'm going to blacklist you, and key your car, and publish your name... and harass you because you are a P.O.S.
G0Jets Pilot: Yeah whatever....
American Eagle Pilot and American Pilot (shake head in disbelief at TSA Pilot): Are you that self centered or just too stupid to understand?
TSA Pilot: Yeah.... I guess both (walks away to post on Flightinfo).
Wow.... such profound, intelligent and professional responses from the scablike Trans States Pilots. I say "scab" because this is the word THEY choose for Pilots who end around their CBA.
Here is an exchange heard round the terminal:
American Eagle Pilot: Hey... you TSA Pilots are flying Jets that were originally OURS, on our routes circumventing OUR CBA. What gives?
TSA Pilot: (Looks down) Yeah i know.... our management is really messed up. There is NOTHING we can do. Its just business you know.
American Eagle Pilot: Yeah whatever....
Next
American Pilot: Hey... your company did an end around on our CBA and are flying 70 seaters which is bad for the industry and which is why we tried to scope it. What gives?
TSA Pilot: (Looks down) Yeah I know.... our management is really messed up. There is NOTHING we can do. Its just business you know.
American Pilot: Yeah whatever....
Next
TSA Pilot: (Angrily) Hey... G0Jets Pilots are flying OUR flying and doing an end around on our CBA.... which makes YOU a scab. I'm going to blacklist you, and key your car, and publish your name... and harass you because you are a P.O.S.
G0Jets Pilot: Yeah whatever....
American Eagle Pilot and American Pilot (shake head in disbelief at TSA Pilot): Are you that self centered or just too stupid to understand?
TSA Pilot: Yeah.... I guess both (walks away to post on Flightinfo).
airjackson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2002
- Posts
- 226
cocknbull
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2002
- Posts
- 350
Angus,
I feel you are missing reality. American does not own Trans States Airlines and we are not circumnavigating the American seniority list. *oJets is owned by Trans States and *oJet pilots are circumnavigating our seniority list. BIG DIFFERENCE MATE. APAs scope is between the management of American, TSA, and APA; not the TSA pilots represented by ALPA.
Angus, after reading several of your post I have realized what your problem is, so here is a link to a forum were you will fit in:
http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/
Hopefully this will help your lame sex life.
I feel you are missing reality. American does not own Trans States Airlines and we are not circumnavigating the American seniority list. *oJets is owned by Trans States and *oJet pilots are circumnavigating our seniority list. BIG DIFFERENCE MATE. APAs scope is between the management of American, TSA, and APA; not the TSA pilots represented by ALPA.
Angus, after reading several of your post I have realized what your problem is, so here is a link to a forum were you will fit in:
http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/
Hopefully this will help your lame sex life.
great cornholio
Are you threatening me??
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
- Posts
- 792
The American Conncection/Eagle thing went down before my time. TSA used to fly for TWA as TWE. When American bought out TWA then didn't those routes stay the same. Cause Eagle never really did any flying into STL anyways. Plus why isn't anyone mad at CHQ for its American flying? And I don't understand why some many people want to give the TSA pilots crap for trying to fight the race to the bottom. I know this is a mess and the 70 seat jets should have never been at anything other than mainline, but thats not what happend and we are just trying to stop the race to the bottom. As far as the APA scope goes it really is hard to compare that with the GJets thing because as it was stated earlier AMR does not own TSA....however TSA and GJ are owned by the same company and are basically a whipsaw tactic. I don't see how TSA pilots flying 70 seat jets for the UAL codeshare can be used to whipsaw the American mainline pilots into a crappy contract. However look how easy it would be for GJets to be used to whipsaw the TSA pilots into a crappy contract. Plus the the APA scope deal was that big then how did CHQ / Republic / whatever they are called this week get away with it. Plus what about the ATR 72s that TSA had flying around for while those had more than 50 seats. Assuming TSA does get the 70 seat UAL flying I'm sure that no TSA pilot would fly the flight if we were directed not to by our union. Unlike the GJets guys who have been told numerous times that ALPA is not cool with GJets.
EagleRJ
Are we there yet?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,490
I used to be mad at the creation of G0j3ts, and was ready to stand with the angry TSA pilots...
Then an EMB painted in the colors of the Dark Eagle taxied past, and I reminded myself that those were my passengers, being flown around on an aircraft that is still owned by my company, in controvention of my pre-existing CBA, and the pilots flying were the same ones who were now angry about G0j3ts.
I guess all that defensiveness and even taunting of Eagle crews several years back was the wrong thing to do in light of your current situation, huh? Alter-egos created to produce leverage are always bad for the pilot group. Just remember that G0j3ts was not there first!
Then an EMB painted in the colors of the Dark Eagle taxied past, and I reminded myself that those were my passengers, being flown around on an aircraft that is still owned by my company, in controvention of my pre-existing CBA, and the pilots flying were the same ones who were now angry about G0j3ts.
I guess all that defensiveness and even taunting of Eagle crews several years back was the wrong thing to do in light of your current situation, huh? Alter-egos created to produce leverage are always bad for the pilot group. Just remember that G0j3ts was not there first!
purduedchi
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Posts
- 37
EagleRJ,
Believe it or not, mostly all of the TSA pilots stand firm with the Eagle pilots when it comes to the question of who owns those airplanes. We want you guys to stick it to our management. After all, as I recall, it was many of our pilots who were picketing alongside with your pilots back in the day. We are just trying to stop that deadly race to the bottom, and to preserve and protect as many jobsa as we can. Let me ask you this. Let's say AMR purchased all of FLYI's assets, planes, gates, equipment, et al. Now they decide that the are going to make it a separate company, call it American Xpress, but have a much more substandard payscle and worse work rules than Eagles current CBA. Then AMR decides that this is where the majority of the regional growth will be for themselves, stagnating and lowering many of your pilot's career opportunities. Most of the routes that we are currently flying for american were routes that we had under the TWE banner. Yes we did add some routes with I believe 10 more jets. However, we have lost many more routes and airplanes than that over the past 3 years (8 ATR a/c and approx 10 J-41's. Cities such as GRR, SBN, FWA, CVG, BMI, CMI, EVV, and a few more I can't remember we have lost so that the traffic can be routed through ORD instead. In essence we are shirnking, and the jobs that should be ours are being INsourced to a group of people willing to stab there fellow colleauges in the back in a race to get on top first. So yes...we are going to take a stand against this race to the bottom, and we hope that many other pilots will support us in this fight...because the next time around, it could be them on the hot seat
Believe it or not, mostly all of the TSA pilots stand firm with the Eagle pilots when it comes to the question of who owns those airplanes. We want you guys to stick it to our management. After all, as I recall, it was many of our pilots who were picketing alongside with your pilots back in the day. We are just trying to stop that deadly race to the bottom, and to preserve and protect as many jobsa as we can. Let me ask you this. Let's say AMR purchased all of FLYI's assets, planes, gates, equipment, et al. Now they decide that the are going to make it a separate company, call it American Xpress, but have a much more substandard payscle and worse work rules than Eagles current CBA. Then AMR decides that this is where the majority of the regional growth will be for themselves, stagnating and lowering many of your pilot's career opportunities. Most of the routes that we are currently flying for american were routes that we had under the TWE banner. Yes we did add some routes with I believe 10 more jets. However, we have lost many more routes and airplanes than that over the past 3 years (8 ATR a/c and approx 10 J-41's. Cities such as GRR, SBN, FWA, CVG, BMI, CMI, EVV, and a few more I can't remember we have lost so that the traffic can be routed through ORD instead. In essence we are shirnking, and the jobs that should be ours are being INsourced to a group of people willing to stab there fellow colleauges in the back in a race to get on top first. So yes...we are going to take a stand against this race to the bottom, and we hope that many other pilots will support us in this fight...because the next time around, it could be them on the hot seat
Jason Kagan
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2005
- Posts
- 16
EagleRJ said:
While I would agree that the aircraft were and possibly are still owned by your company, I would disagree that we were or are flying your passengers. Eagle never flew in or out of STL on the routes we are flying "your" aircraft on. Furthermore, we did not agree with what had happened with respect to those aircraft and your scope language. As a matter of fact, our MEC chairman particpated in informational picketing with you, the eagle pilots, over this very issue. The difference is that the pilots that flew those aircraft and are still flying those aircraft were already working for TSA and played no part in making the decision to purchase or "lease" the aircraft from eagle, nor did we decide on what routes they would be flown.
Our contention with the G0Jet pilots is that many of them have gone to work there knowing full well that there was a dispute between ALPA and the company as to who should be flying those aircraft. It is not the same as if they had already been working there and then awarded a contract to fly bigger aircraft. These pilots are helping the company circumvent our CBA.
Angus,
I can only answer your questions with a question. What do the AA pilots gain or hope to gain from having scope language that prohibits code share partners from flying 70 seat aircraft, even if it is flown for a different code share? I don't understand the logic in that language.
Please explain.
737 Pylt
Um....Floats anyone??
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2003
- Posts
- 3,085
Angus=moron!
After re reading your drivel, I had to comment on the above. Not only are you uneducated, but arrogant as well. To use the word "scab," and Trans States Pilots in the same sentence only shows your stupidity. Do you even know what a "scab" is?? Obviously not. These folks have put up a valiant effort to thwart managements misdoings against their CBA. I can only say that after writing something like that, stupidity is not an excuse, you are just trying to start a fight, junior. If you are trying to do that, you are bringing spit balls to a gun fight. Now get off mommy's computer before you get in trouble again.
737
Angus said:
After re reading your drivel, I had to comment on the above. Not only are you uneducated, but arrogant as well. To use the word "scab," and Trans States Pilots in the same sentence only shows your stupidity. Do you even know what a "scab" is?? Obviously not. These folks have put up a valiant effort to thwart managements misdoings against their CBA. I can only say that after writing something like that, stupidity is not an excuse, you are just trying to start a fight, junior. If you are trying to do that, you are bringing spit balls to a gun fight. Now get off mommy's computer before you get in trouble again.
737
EagleRJ
Are we there yet?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,490
Jason Kagan and purduedchi-
I'll allow that unless they're incredibly naiive, G0jet pilots know exactly what kind of job they are accepting, while TSA pilots are simply flying the airplane and route they are given. Beyond that though, the effects on the target pilot group are the same.
After American's ill-advised purchase of ailing TWA was announced, pilots at Eagle were excited about the associated growth of American's feed, as well as the probability of a new domicile in St. Louis. We were instead treated to the creation of American Connection, with TSA, Chatauqua, and Corporate Express flying Embraers, ATRs, and Jetstreams with pseuo-Eagle paint, and AMR uniforms, tickets, and gates. As far as the passengers were concerned, they were flying on Eagle.
As the industry slowed, the knife was twisted, with 10 of our Embraers being transferred to TSA, without their pilots as was required by our CBA (BTW, those aircraft are owned by American Eagle Airlines to this day- check the FAA registry). That was a net loss of at least 100 pilot positions for us, creating growth for TSA and stagnation and furloughs for Eagle. To make things even worse, the First Officer on the Eagle Saab was frequently "senior" to the Captain on the TSA Embraer! Believe me- most Eagle pilots attribute tens of thousands in lost wages and untold lost seniority to the creation of American Connection.
Since then, American Connection has been held over our heads like a cinder block, as a thinly-veiled threat to cooperate with company cutbacks. The president of Eagle is on record as saying that maintaining competetive costs are important if we want to keep our position as "preferred provider" of feed to American! The insinuation is that failure to do more for less will result in even more flying being transferred to Connection.
ALL alter-ego operations need to be fought by pilots. Their only purpose is to undermine the labor agreements that were fairly agreed on by labor and management. Pilots at TSA need to be cautious in how loudly they protest G0j3ts though, because their next sequence might be American Connection!
I'll allow that unless they're incredibly naiive, G0jet pilots know exactly what kind of job they are accepting, while TSA pilots are simply flying the airplane and route they are given. Beyond that though, the effects on the target pilot group are the same.
After American's ill-advised purchase of ailing TWA was announced, pilots at Eagle were excited about the associated growth of American's feed, as well as the probability of a new domicile in St. Louis. We were instead treated to the creation of American Connection, with TSA, Chatauqua, and Corporate Express flying Embraers, ATRs, and Jetstreams with pseuo-Eagle paint, and AMR uniforms, tickets, and gates. As far as the passengers were concerned, they were flying on Eagle.
As the industry slowed, the knife was twisted, with 10 of our Embraers being transferred to TSA, without their pilots as was required by our CBA (BTW, those aircraft are owned by American Eagle Airlines to this day- check the FAA registry). That was a net loss of at least 100 pilot positions for us, creating growth for TSA and stagnation and furloughs for Eagle. To make things even worse, the First Officer on the Eagle Saab was frequently "senior" to the Captain on the TSA Embraer! Believe me- most Eagle pilots attribute tens of thousands in lost wages and untold lost seniority to the creation of American Connection.
Since then, American Connection has been held over our heads like a cinder block, as a thinly-veiled threat to cooperate with company cutbacks. The president of Eagle is on record as saying that maintaining competetive costs are important if we want to keep our position as "preferred provider" of feed to American! The insinuation is that failure to do more for less will result in even more flying being transferred to Connection.
ALL alter-ego operations need to be fought by pilots. Their only purpose is to undermine the labor agreements that were fairly agreed on by labor and management. Pilots at TSA need to be cautious in how loudly they protest G0j3ts though, because their next sequence might be American Connection!
737Pileofit=Has nothing constuctive to add..
LOL! Here you are with NOTHING to add to this topic..... but you have to come here and be big "Mr. Delta" to impress the regional guys.
Heres some news for you "Mrs List every airplane and type rating I have 737pileofit"....... your bankrupt carrier has become nonrelevant just as your comments on this thread. I guess this is what is creating the inferiority complex to come over on this thread and try and slam me.
You're out of your mind as well as league if you think your tough guy talk intimidates or even irritates me. LOL! I just look at your profile, and that is ALL the satisfaction I need to laugh you off.....little boy. You still in the right seat? Ouch... that paycut your about to get is REALLY gonna sting. Back to dialup for you Spanky.....LOL!
Speaking of junior.... shouldn't you be checking for open time?
LOL!! Now run along and let the adults talk....... maybe you can add a complete list of EVERY airplane you've flown to your profile..... we'd ALL be soooo impressed....LOL!!
737 Pylt said:
LOL! Here you are with NOTHING to add to this topic..... but you have to come here and be big "Mr. Delta" to impress the regional guys.
Heres some news for you "Mrs List every airplane and type rating I have 737pileofit"....... your bankrupt carrier has become nonrelevant just as your comments on this thread. I guess this is what is creating the inferiority complex to come over on this thread and try and slam me.
You're out of your mind as well as league if you think your tough guy talk intimidates or even irritates me. LOL! I just look at your profile, and that is ALL the satisfaction I need to laugh you off.....little boy. You still in the right seat? Ouch... that paycut your about to get is REALLY gonna sting. Back to dialup for you Spanky.....LOL!
Speaking of junior.... shouldn't you be checking for open time?
LOL!! Now run along and let the adults talk....... maybe you can add a complete list of EVERY airplane you've flown to your profile..... we'd ALL be soooo impressed....LOL!!
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