Trans States vs. G0Jets Hipocracy

[cocknbull]

Angus,

I feel you are missing reality. American does not own Trans States Airlines and we are not circumnavigating the American seniority list. *oJets is owned by Trans States and *oJet pilots are circumnavigating our seniority list. BIG DIFFERENCE MATE. APAs scope is between the management of American, TSA, and APA; not the TSA pilots represented by ALPA.

Angus, after reading several of your post I have realized what your problem is, so here is a link to a forum were you will fit in:

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/

Hopefully this will help your lame sex life.

 

[say again]

Angus,

I feel you are missing reality. American does not own Trans States Airlines and we are not circumnavigating the American seniority list. *oJets is owned by Trans States and *oJet pilots are circumnavigating our seniority list. BIG DIFFERENCE MATE. APAs scope is between the management of American, TSA, and APA; not the TSA pilots represented by ALPA.

Angus, after reading several of your post I have realized what your problem is, so here is a link to a forum were you will fit in:

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/

Hopefully this will help your lame sex life.

Very, very well said.:beer: He just doesn't get it.

 

[737 Pylt]

Why isn't APA making a fuss then? Because they don't give a shiite either?

Blow it out your butt, smegma breath

That has to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

And:
Anus, did a TSA pilot have sex with your mother? Get a clue sport!
737
BTW, I thought you were banned?!

 

[great cornholio]

The American Conncection/Eagle thing went down before my time. TSA used to fly for TWA as TWE. When American bought out TWA then didn't those routes stay the same. Cause Eagle never really did any flying into STL anyways. Plus why isn't anyone mad at CHQ for its American flying? And I don't understand why some many people want to give the TSA pilots crap for trying to fight the race to the bottom. I know this is a mess and the 70 seat jets should have never been at anything other than mainline, but thats not what happend and we are just trying to stop the race to the bottom. As far as the APA scope goes it really is hard to compare that with the GJets thing because as it was stated earlier AMR does not own TSA....however TSA and GJ are owned by the same company and are basically a whipsaw tactic. I don't see how TSA pilots flying 70 seat jets for the UAL codeshare can be used to whipsaw the American mainline pilots into a crappy contract. However look how easy it would be for GJets to be used to whipsaw the TSA pilots into a crappy contract. Plus the the APA scope deal was that big then how did CHQ / Republic / whatever they are called this week get away with it. Plus what about the ATR 72s that TSA had flying around for while those had more than 50 seats. Assuming TSA does get the 70 seat UAL flying I'm sure that no TSA pilot would fly the flight if we were directed not to by our union. Unlike the GJets guys who have been told numerous times that ALPA is not cool with GJets.

 

[EagleRJ]

I used to be mad at the creation of G0j3ts, and was ready to stand with the angry TSA pilots...

Then an EMB painted in the colors of the Dark Eagle taxied past, and I reminded myself that those were my passengers, being flown around on an aircraft that is still owned by my company, in controvention of my pre-existing CBA, and the pilots flying were the same ones who were now angry about G0j3ts.

I guess all that defensiveness and even taunting of Eagle crews several years back was the wrong thing to do in light of your current situation, huh? Alter-egos created to produce leverage are always bad for the pilot group. Just remember that G0j3ts was not there first!

 

[purduedchi]

EagleRJ,

Believe it or not, mostly all of the TSA pilots stand firm with the Eagle pilots when it comes to the question of who owns those airplanes. We want you guys to stick it to our management. After all, as I recall, it was many of our pilots who were picketing alongside with your pilots back in the day. We are just trying to stop that deadly race to the bottom, and to preserve and protect as many jobsa as we can. Let me ask you this. Let's say AMR purchased all of FLYI's assets, planes, gates, equipment, et al. Now they decide that the are going to make it a separate company, call it American Xpress, but have a much more substandard payscle and worse work rules than Eagles current CBA. Then AMR decides that this is where the majority of the regional growth will be for themselves, stagnating and lowering many of your pilot's career opportunities. Most of the routes that we are currently flying for american were routes that we had under the TWE banner. Yes we did add some routes with I believe 10 more jets. However, we have lost many more routes and airplanes than that over the past 3 years (8 ATR a/c and approx 10 J-41's. Cities such as GRR, SBN, FWA, CVG, BMI, CMI, EVV, and a few more I can't remember we have lost so that the traffic can be routed through ORD instead. In essence we are shirnking, and the jobs that should be ours are being INsourced to a group of people willing to stab there fellow colleauges in the back in a race to get on top first. So yes...we are going to take a stand against this race to the bottom, and we hope that many other pilots will support us in this fight...because the next time around, it could be them on the hot seat

 

[Jason Kagan]

I used to be mad at the creation of G0j3ts, and was ready to stand with the angry TSA pilots...

Then an EMB painted in the colors of the Dark Eagle taxied past, and I reminded myself that those were my passengers, being flown around on an aircraft that is still owned by my company, in controvention of my pre-existing CBA, and the pilots flying were the same ones who were now angry about G0j3ts.

I guess all that defensiveness and even taunting of Eagle crews several years back was the wrong thing to do in light of your current situation, huh? Alter-egos created to produce leverage are always bad for the pilot group. Just remember that G0j3ts was not there first!

While I would agree that the aircraft were and possibly are still owned by your company, I would disagree that we were or are flying your passengers. Eagle never flew in or out of STL on the routes we are flying "your" aircraft on. Furthermore, we did not agree with what had happened with respect to those aircraft and your scope language. As a matter of fact, our MEC chairman particpated in informational picketing with you, the eagle pilots, over this very issue. The difference is that the pilots that flew those aircraft and are still flying those aircraft were already working for TSA and played no part in making the decision to purchase or "lease" the aircraft from eagle, nor did we decide on what routes they would be flown.

Our contention with the G0Jet pilots is that many of them have gone to work there knowing full well that there was a dispute between ALPA and the company as to who should be flying those aircraft. It is not the same as if they had already been working there and then awarded a contract to fly bigger aircraft. These pilots are helping the company circumvent our CBA.

Angus,

I can only answer your questions with a question. What do the AA pilots gain or hope to gain from having scope language that prohibits code share partners from flying 70 seat aircraft, even if it is flown for a different code share? I don't understand the logic in that language.

Please explain.

 

[737 Pylt]

Angus=moron!

Wow.... such profound, intelligent and professional responses from the scablike Trans States Pilots.

After re reading your drivel, I had to comment on the above. Not only are you uneducated, but arrogant as well. To use the word "scab," and Trans States Pilots in the same sentence only shows your stupidity. Do you even know what a "scab" is?? Obviously not. These folks have put up a valiant effort to thwart managements misdoings against their CBA. I can only say that after writing something like that, stupidity is not an excuse, you are just trying to start a fight, junior. If you are trying to do that, you are bringing spit balls to a gun fight. Now get off mommy's computer before you get in trouble again.
737

 

[EagleRJ]

Jason Kagan and purduedchi-

I'll allow that unless they're incredibly naiive, G0jet pilots know exactly what kind of job they are accepting, while TSA pilots are simply flying the airplane and route they are given. Beyond that though, the effects on the target pilot group are the same.

After American's ill-advised purchase of ailing TWA was announced, pilots at Eagle were excited about the associated growth of American's feed, as well as the probability of a new domicile in St. Louis. We were instead treated to the creation of American Connection, with TSA, Chatauqua, and Corporate Express flying Embraers, ATRs, and Jetstreams with pseuo-Eagle paint, and AMR uniforms, tickets, and gates. As far as the passengers were concerned, they were flying on Eagle.
As the industry slowed, the knife was twisted, with 10 of our Embraers being transferred to TSA, without their pilots as was required by our CBA (BTW, those aircraft are owned by American Eagle Airlines to this day- check the FAA registry). That was a net loss of at least 100 pilot positions for us, creating growth for TSA and stagnation and furloughs for Eagle. To make things even worse, the First Officer on the Eagle Saab was frequently "senior" to the Captain on the TSA Embraer! Believe me- most Eagle pilots attribute tens of thousands in lost wages and untold lost seniority to the creation of American Connection.

Since then, American Connection has been held over our heads like a cinder block, as a thinly-veiled threat to cooperate with company cutbacks. The president of Eagle is on record as saying that maintaining competetive costs are important if we want to keep our position as "preferred provider" of feed to American! The insinuation is that failure to do more for less will result in even more flying being transferred to Connection.

ALL alter-ego operations need to be fought by pilots. Their only purpose is to undermine the labor agreements that were fairly agreed on by labor and management. Pilots at TSA need to be cautious in how loudly they protest G0j3ts though, because their next sequence might be American Connection!

 

[Angus]

737Pileofit=Has nothing constuctive to add..

After re reading your drivel, I had to comment on the above. Not only are you uneducated, but arrogant as well. To use the word "scab," and Trans States Pilots in the same sentence only shows your stupidity. Do you even know what a "scab" is?? Obviously not. These folks have put up a valiant effort to thwart managements misdoings against their CBA. I can only say that after writing something like that, stupidity is not an excuse, you are just trying to start a fight, junior. If you are trying to do that, you are bringing spit balls to a gun fight. Now get off mommy's computer before you get in trouble again.
737

LOL! Here you are with NOTHING to add to this topic..... but you have to come here and be big "Mr. Delta" to impress the regional guys.

Heres some news for you "Mrs List every airplane and type rating I have 737pileofit"....... your bankrupt carrier has become nonrelevant just as your comments on this thread. I guess this is what is creating the inferiority complex to come over on this thread and try and slam me.

You're out of your mind as well as league if you think your tough guy talk intimidates or even irritates me. LOL! I just look at your profile, and that is ALL the satisfaction I need to laugh you off.....little boy. You still in the right seat? Ouch... that paycut your about to get is REALLY gonna sting. Back to dialup for you Spanky.....LOL!

Speaking of junior.... shouldn't you be checking for open time?

LOL!! Now run along and let the adults talk....... maybe you can add a complete list of EVERY airplane you've flown to your profile..... we'd ALL be soooo impressed....LOL!!

 

[Angus]

Finally an intelligent response..

Angus,

I can only answer your questions with a question. What do the AA pilots gain or hope to gain from having scope language that prohibits code share partners from flying 70 seat aircraft, even if it is flown for a different code share? I don't understand the logic in that language.

Please explain.

I appreciate your reply Jason Kagan. My response to your question is this:

It is irrelevant to another Pilot Group what the reason for a particular Pilot Groups scope clause in their CBA. The fact is... it exists for their benefit and to turn a blind eye to that fact changes nothing.

With that said..... my main point to the Pilots at Trans States is this:

Stop your big bad toughguy talk and antics towards other Pilots that are doing the SAME thing that your are doing and are willing to do. It happens and you are NO different and you can only imagine if the all the Pilot groups started acting personally towards you like you have been acting.

 

[WhiteCloud]

With that said..... my main point to the Pilots at Trans States is this:

Stop your big bad toughguy talk and antics towards other Pilots

This is the part I agree with. Hulas doesn't care about the talk and enjoys the pilot vs. pilot antics that he orchestrates. Anything less than hitting Hulas in the wallet is pi$$ing in the wind. I'm ex TSA and know they laugh about this kind of stuff in their meetings and spend time figuring out how to stick it to the unions in seemingly trivial ways. It's a daily battle at TSA. Fight the real enemy.

 

[cocknbull]

EagleRJ

Wow, an Eagle pilot complaining about stealing passengers. What happened to all the FOKKER 100s. What happened to all of the TWA pilots and 717s. Thats right American and American Eagle. The little flying that we TWA and TWE pilots do is pathetic. STL is our turf not yours. We are not owned by Eagle and we our not bypassing your seniority list.

737 Pylt

Do you fly the thunder guppy out of ATL?

 

[TWA Dude]

After American's ill-advised purchase of ailing TWA was announced, pilots at Eagle were excited about the associated growth of American's feed, ...

That's an interesting persepective. Why in the world would AA's feed grow as a result of the purchase? If I may presume, you were looking forward not to growth but to the transfer of the flying done by CHQ, TSA, and Corpex to Eagle. Your gain and their loss. Now don't get me wrong, I know it's just business and you felt your CBA entitled you to it, but now you sound like the TSA pilot whom you criticize.

My biggest beef: pilots blaming other pilots for management's decisions. To Angus: no Regional/Commuters/Small Jet operators take any flying from Mainline; it's given to them by Mainline management. Why do mainline pilots allow it? Because we're essentially powerless to stop companies we don't run. Let's all try to keep our eyes on the Big Picture and not mindlessly bash other pilots.

 

[Crossky]

My biggest beef: pilots blaming other pilots for management's decisions. To Angus: no Regional/Commuters/Small Jet operators take any flying from Mainline; it's given to them by Mainline management. Why do mainline pilots allow it? Because we're essentially powerless to stop companies we don't run. Let's all try to keep our eyes on the Big Picture and not mindlessly bash other pilots.

Amen TWA Dude. TSA didn't take Eagle's flying, it was given to them by AMR. Just like the flying we've been doing as UAX was given to Mesa, TSA, Taco, and SkyWest, and whoever else. What did you expect AMR to do, disband TSA or staple or integrate them? Modern management pits one against the other, it's unfortunate but happens.

At least give Chataqua (can't spell it) thumbs up for playing by the rules, paying APA the fines until the UAX a/c which violate their scope are on another certificate, and still working from a single seniority list. TSA could operate TSA and G* Jets this way, but good luck.

 

[EagleRJ]

EagleRJ

What happened to all the FOKKER 100s. What happened to all of the TWA pilots and 717s. Thats right American and American Eagle.

The Fokkers were phased out by the company because they were orphan airframes that broke all the time.

Trust me, every Eagle pilot is intimately familiar with the TWA pilots. Many of them are at Eagle right now in our highest-paid seats, drawing pay based on their TWA seniority! The TWA deal went through many years after the Flowthrough/Flowback agreement was signed, so they weren't entitled to participate in it, but they came anyway.

It shouldn't need repeating, but TWA was a purchase, not a merger! I'm happy for the pilots that it worked out as well for them as it did, but pilots at Eagle have paid a heavy price.
Back to the topic- again, I don't see a direct comparison between the TSA pilots and the G*jets pilots, but pilots at TSA need to watch the volume of their protests considering the effects of their own flying. An alter-ego is an alter-ego, no matter how it came about.

Do you fly the thunder guppy out of ATL?

What's a thunder guppy?

 

[TWA Dude]

It shouldn't need repeating, but TWA was a purchase, not a merger!

It was both. The assets of TWA were purchased then merged into AA. FYI, an interesting yet pointless debate now rages about AWA and USA, as in who bought who. The answer is neither but don't tell that to the unions!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Angus,

Didn't know that AA pilots owned AMR or the flying that AA does. What a joke. You don't decide anything about AA flying except on your particular flight. No pilot decides who does what flying and it's laughable that you think you do. Pilots fly what managment tells them to or what they have negotiated in their CBA and how's that been workin for ya?

Fact is it's cheaper for managments to violate CBA's and do what they want and wory about the grievances later. Still havn't heard too much from APA about all this. Any grievance been filed?

Oh yeah, hows that Wright Ammendment thing going? Doesn't look to good for you guys. Better start to squirrell those nuts away for the coming losses that SWA is going cause to AA. Talk about losses, at least delta's is oil prices and not the most profitable airline in history being let out of the hand cuffs imposed on them for the last 26 years. Have fun dealing with that ya old fart.

 

[737 Pylt]

LOL! Here you are with NOTHING to add to this topic..... but you have to come here and be big "Mr. Delta" to impress the regional guys.

First of all sport, I have forgotten more than you'll ever learn. And I don't try to impress anyone, I leave that to you!

Heres some news for you "Mrs List every airplane and type rating I have 737pileofit"....... your bankrupt carrier has become nonrelevant just as your comments on this thread. I guess this is what is creating the inferiority complex to come over on this thread and try and slam me.

What has the state of my airline have to do with the thread. I got news for you jr., you speak out of both sides of your nut drainer....come back with something a little bit bigger.

You're out of your mind as well as league if you think your tough guy talk intimidates or even irritates me. LOL! I just look at your profile, and that is ALL the satisfaction I need to laugh you off.....little boy. You still in the right seat? Ouch... that paycut your about to get is REALLY gonna sting. Back to dialup for you Spanky.....LOL!

Man sport, is that all you got. The right seat pay is what I use to pay my gardner, you know him, his name is mr. anus, you call him dad! BTW your mom did a lousy job cleaning our gesthouse toilet. Next time, I'm docking her pay!

Speaking of junior.... shouldn't you be checking for open time?

LOL!! Now run along and let the adults talk....... maybe you can add a complete list of EVERY airplane you've flown to your profile..... we'd ALL be soooo impressed....LOL!!

HEY A$$HOLE, last time I checked, this was an aviation board. Too bad, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it. As far as adults talking, you wouldn't know. Spending time at Chuck E Cheeses looking for your next date is not playing adult.
Move on kid, there's nothing for you here!
737

 

[Angus]

We have a love connection....

First of all sport, I have forgotten more than you'll ever learn. And I don't try to impress anyone, I leave that to you!

What has the state of my airline have to do with the thread. I got news for you jr., you speak out of both sides of your nut drainer....come back with something a little bit bigger.

Man sport, is that all you got. The right seat pay is what I use to pay my gardner, you know him, his name is mr. anus, you call him dad! BTW your mom did a lousy job cleaning our gesthouse toilet. Next time, I'm docking her pay!

HEY A$$HOLE, last time I checked, this was an aviation board. Too bad, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it. As far as adults talking, you wouldn't know. Spending time at Chuck E Cheeses looking for your next date is not playing adult.
Move on kid, there's nothing for you here!
737

Sooo... what are you really saying? I think we both know what is happening here. I can feel the chemistry. I think deep down.... we really love each other. There I said it.... I LOVE you man. I really really love you.

How about us finally getting together for some quality time together. You can sit and tell me stories about ALL the type ratings you have and all the airplanes you fly....wow.... the lists is so impressive! You actually flew the B-727..... wow.... I'm breathless!

You can show me all the pictures you have on the walls and on the tables in your house of all the airplanes you've flown. You probably have pictures doing preflights, and in the cockpit sitting in the seat.... maybe even pretending to flip switches. OOOOhhhh... that is soooo hot.

How about it big boy....??