Trans States downgrades and furloughs - Again...

[millhouse21]

....you're right...it was APA scope language....same mistakes....CHQ bought the single list...you folks didn't....

Mainline pilots and ALPA/APA created this situation....Whipsaw is powerfull and it costs negotiating capital to buy it back...Nobody wants to pay for it, but everyone wants to complaign about the result....

They worked out a deal that was palatable. We weren't able to. Don't forget, there was no actual negotiating that happened here. They said "here, take it or leave it." I left it. And I will not forget. I may be out of the airline business soon but all you Gojet types have made an enemy. More than one.

 

[JoeMerchant]

They worked out a deal that was palatable. We weren't able to. Don't forget, there was no actual negotiating that happened here. They said "here, take it or leave it." I left it. And I will not forget. I may be out of the airline business soon but all you Gojet types have made an enemy. More than one.

I'm not a "Gojet type"....The fact is Gojet is just another alter-ego...much like the ALPA created Compass and MidAtlantic....

I understand your frustration.....but we created much of it within our own unions.....

 

[ricecake]

Joe you are not making any friends here- this is not the time to argue GoJets was the fault of the TSA pilot group. You go fly the line at TSA for a while and then maybe you can talk, because clearly you don't know how things are working for Hulas.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe you are not making any friends here- this is not the time to argue GoJets was the fault of the TSA pilot group. You go fly the line at TSA for a while and then maybe you can talk, because clearly you don't know how things are working for Hulas.

Hulas is a scumbag....I wouldn't work for him....

GoJet is a direct result of the APA scope language that wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters for United....

Just like the Republic certificate over at CHQ.....

Bad scope language just makes things worse....

 

[millhouse21]

Great, thanks for making your ad nauseum point again at our expense.

 

[olympus593]

Hulas is a scumbag....I wouldn't work for him....

GoJet is a direct result of the APA scope language that wouldn't allow TSA to fly 70 seaters for United....

Just like the Republic certificate over at CHQ.....

Bad scope language just makes things worse....

I think you must be the biggest D-Bag I ever met...By far...

 

[CX880]

Can't we drop this. The fact is that Gojet is here and it's nothing new. WE all know what is was created for, if people don't agree with that, nothings going to get accomplished by arguing in these forums. If majors have the power to create place like compass then why the hell can't the regionals create gojets.

 

[Minimaniac]

I'm not a "Gojet type"....The fact is Gojet is just another alter-ego...much like the ALPA created Compass and MidAtlantic....

I understand your frustration.....but we created much of it within our own unions.....

Mid Atlantic and Compass are not alter-ego carriers. MDA was essentially a B-scale that was to be flown on a different certificate, but it was still mainline pilots with mainline seniority numbers. American has had B-scale pilots, and I believe US Air's MetroJet (tomato jet) was also B-scale. All B-scale is, is a way to make newly hired (or recalled) pilots within a union work the same job for less money and reduced benefits. It allows everyone already on property to keep their lifestyle and wages, and make the newbies absorb the "cost-savings".

Compass is just another wholly owned like PDT or PSA, with flow through agreements. Again, it is not a whipsaw.

 

[temcgrew]

....you're right...it was APA scope language....same mistakes....CHQ bought the single list...you folks didn't....

Mainline pilots and ALPA/APA created this situation....Whipsaw is powerfull and it costs negotiating capital to buy it back...Nobody wants to pay for it, but everyone wants to complaign about the result....

Good luck to all the TSA guys out there. I hope you all find good jobs.

Joe, this isn't a thread about GoJet but that topic is always a black cloud over the TSA pilots. It is unfortunate that you are now spouting the NO vote for one list to these guys who were not even there at the time, but are facing the reality of loosing jobs.

It is not very complicated,
1. GoJet was created by TSA to get around the APA clause.

2. There was a contract offered that was voted down.

3. NO NEGOTIATIONS TOOK PLACE AFTER THAT.......

It was THEN a tool to subvert union workers and designed that way from the beginning.
To furlough pilots and offer them jobs at GOJET is an insult and you should figure out that you are pouring salt in the wound created by TSA MANAGEMENT and not the pilot group.

No argument will win blaming this on the pilot group.

 

[CX880]

Good luck to all the TSA guys out there. I hope you all find good jobs.

Joe, this isn't a thread about GoJet but that topic is always a black cloud over the TSA pilots. It is unfortunate that you are now spouting the NO vote for one list to these guys who were not even there at the time, but are facing the reality of loosing jobs.

It is not very complicated,
1. GoJet was created by TSA to get around the APA clause.

2. There was a contract offered that was voted down.

3. NO NEGOTIATIONS TOOK PLACE AFTER THAT.......

It was THEN a tool to subvert union workers and designed that way from the beginning.
To furlough pilots and offer them jobs at GOJET is an insult and you should figure out that you are pouring salt in the wound created by TSA MANAGEMENT and not the pilot group.

No argument will win blaming this on the pilot group.

Fair enough, however there are those out there that believe TSA pilots should have voted yes on the matter and worked out the details later. That would have at least ensure the future of the company and more importantly the flying. Look at where TSA is now. Both sides have a point. There are no airlines out there that currently fly 70+ seaters for below 70 seat wages. I have no idea how long that would have gone with TSA if they voted yes.

And by the way GOJET in no shape or form has offered jobs for furloughed TSA pilots, guys are going there on their own will.

 

[johndt]

Fair enough, however there are those out there that believe TSA pilots should have voted yes on the matter and worked out the details later. That would have at least ensure the future of the company and more importantly the flying. Look at where TSA is now. Both sides have a point. There are no airlines out there that currently fly 70+ seaters for below 70 seat wages. I have no idea how long that would have gone with TSA if they voted yes.

And by the way GOJET in no shape or form has offered jobs for furloughed TSA pilots, guys are going there on their own will.

You and merchant are classless. Find someplace else to work out whatever issues you're struggling with. This thread is about men and women who are losing their jobs, not your misunderstanding of the situation at an airline you apparently know nothing about.

 

[CX880]

You and merchant are classless. Find someplace else to work out whatever issues you're struggling with. This thread is about men and women who are losing their jobs, not your misunderstanding of the situation at an airline you apparently know nothing about.

Let's not call each other names. All I am saying is that the pilots and the mec should have been smarter then to put up a fight with repeated NOs. Yes and they should have worked out the deal later, Hulas knew he wasn't going to cut it with 50 seat pay on CRJ7s. Look at current contracts, no one flys 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. If you were a sweatshop owner in INDIA, would you care if your employees votes yes or no on a matter that would further increased your capital and the company?

No, the fact is that all the BS with alpa was a formality, Hulas was going to form it anyways either with the help of the pilots or with ought. A yes vote would have been better for the company as you can see what has happened the last few years and especially now.

Not only has GJ become what seems like a better operation but they have even got better pay and a contract. And are adding to their fleet.

 

[johndt]

Let's not call each other names. All I am saying is that the pilots and the mec should have been smarter then to put up a fight with repeated NOs. Yes and they should have worked out the deal later, Hulas knew he wasn't going to cut it with 50 seat pay on CRJ7s. Look at current contracts, no one flys 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. If you were a sweatshop owner in INDIA, would you care if your employees votes yes or no on a matter that would further increased your capital and the company?

No, the fact is that all the BS with alpa was a formality, Hulas was going to form it anyways either with the help of the pilots or with ought. A yes vote would have been better for the company as you can see what has happened the last few years and especially now.

Not only has GJ become what seems like a better operation but they have even got better pay and a contract. And are adding to their fleet.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, but I'm not arguing with you here, I'm ~telling~ you: you are classless. This is not the venue for you to let your ignorance shine; start your own thread. It is ruthlessly insensitive to try to argue with people who have lost their jobs that they are to blame, and for no reason other than to see yourself in print. To do so is both pathetic and classless.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Damn. Well put, John.

 

[CX880]

It is ruthlessly insensitive to try to argue with people who have lost their jobs that they are to blame, and for no reason other than to see yourself in print. To do so is both pathetic and classless.

Uh... I've lost my job. See "my current position" And I'm not arguing with people who lost their jobs.

See myself in print?

 

[relief tube]

Did the pilots not vote against the TA? You had a chance to bring everything under one list.....Actions have consequences.......

you, buddy, are a ****************************** bag.

its called having self-respect and integrity. I would have voted no too.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Does anyone know:

How far back did they just recently furlough?

What planes are being lost to mexico?

What are the anticipated furloughs when the eagle planes go?

Info is appreciated.

Thanks,
JC

 

[great cornholio]

Fair enough, however there are those out there that believe TSA pilots should have voted yes on the matter and worked out the details later. That would have at least ensure the future of the company and more importantly the flying. Look at where TSA is now. Both sides have a point. There are no airlines out there that currently fly 70+ seaters for below 70 seat wages. I have no idea how long that would have gone with TSA if they voted yes.

And by the way GOJET in no shape or form has offered jobs for furloughed TSA pilots, guys are going there on their own will.

If we would have voted yes you would still be on the street right now. The letter allowed all furloughs to happen via equipment type not total senority so since you fly the EMB you would have been gone since we are getting rid of EMBs... I've read your posts before and I'm ashamed that you are TSA.

 

[great cornholio]

Does anyone know:

How far back did they just recently furlough?

What planes are being lost to mexico?

What are the anticipated furloughs when the eagle planes go?

Info is appreciated.

Thanks,
JC

1. Feb 06 DOH for downgrades
Aug 07 DOH for furloughs.

2. Not sure but heard that 5 are going to Mexico. 10 are going back to Eagle, and 2 are going back to the leasing company so thats 17 planes which I've heard is the exact number of planes we have on the AA side.

3. Well 10 planes should be about another 50 downgrades and 100 furloughs. 50 downgrades already announced in 2 waves plus the 50 from the Eagle planes plus the 20 from the 2 planes going to the leasing company should be about 120 downgrades. And the 103 furloughs already announced plus the 100 from the eagle planes and the 40 from the leasing company planes should make a total of about 243 furloughs.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Thanks corny!

I'm an exwaterskier and I have many friends over there. I was just trying to figure out how they will be impacted. Peace!