Trans States downgrades and furloughs - Again...

[JoeMerchant]

Did the pilots not vote against the TA? You had a chance to bring everything under one list.....Actions have consequences.......

 

[millhouse21]

You are correct. They do indeed. Thanks again for the kick while we are down. You must be a true gentleman.

 

[Evansaero]

The TSA pilots had a TA that would have joined GoJets and TSA as a single group.....they voted no on the TA....Be careful what you wish for.....

Shoulda taken the deal......

Get the scope and worry about the payrates later.....

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

That total crap TA would have done nothing to protect the TSA pilot group from the current situation. It still would have been two different companies and two different pilot groups.

That TA gave those idots furlough protection rights over senior TSA pilots.

I voted NO and would do it again

 

[JoeMerchant]

You are correct. They do indeed. Thanks again for the kick while we are down. You must be a true gentleman.

I'm not kicking you....I just don't understand why pilots don't want to pay for scope and then complain when it is used against them.....How did you vote?

This shouldn't being hapening....but then there should be a single list....

 

[labbats]

Wow, another TSA post that degrades into a GoJet tangent. Congrats on being that guy Joe Merchant.

 

[millhouse21]

Well, we HAVE scope. Shall I quote from our contract? IT WAS VIOLATED. And here we are. Thanks again for your support.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You really have know clue what you're talking about.

That total crap TA would have done nothing to protect the TSA pilot group from the current situation. It still would have been two different companies and two different pilot groups.

That TA gave those idots furlough protection rights over senior TSA pilots.

I voted NO and would do it again

It was a single list....Please explain how it would have given GoJet pilots furlough protection over senior TSA pilots......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Wow, another TSA post that degrades into a GoJet tangent. Congrats on being that guy Joe Merchant.

I'm just wondering when pilots are going to get serious about scope.....They had a chance to get a single list....We are our own worst enemy.....

 

[millhouse21]

It was a single list....Please explain how it would have given GoJet pilots furlough protection over senior TSA pilots......

It explicitly gave them furlough protection. You truly are clueless aren't you?

 

[Evansaero]

It was a single list....Please explain how it would have given GoJet pilots furlough protection over senior TSA pilots......

If MGT got rid of emb's they like they are doing now.

NOT ONE GOJET PILOT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE FURLOUGHED UNDER THE SINGLE LIST.

THEY GOT TO KEEP THERE SEAT

 

[JoeMerchant]

It explicitly gave them furlough protection. You truly are clueless aren't you?

Can you quote the language? I suspect it only gave furlough protection for those on the property at the time.....How many have been hired since that time....They wouldn't be protected.....Feel free to quote the specific language......

 

[JoeMerchant]

If MGT got rid of emb's they like they are doing now.

NOT ONE GOJET PILOT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE FURLOUGHED UNDER THE SINGLE LIST.

THEY GOT TO KEEP THERE SEAT

Even the ones hired since then?

 

[millhouse21]

Can you quote the language? I suspect it only gave furlough protection for those on the property at the time.....How many have been hired since that time....They wouldn't be protected.....Feel free to quote the specific language......

Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy of that POS "last best offer" (BTW it was the first offer) of a Gojet TA. They tried to ram it down our throats to legitimize their violation of our scope. It was a piece of crap and I would vote no again today. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if we had voted yes, you would be leading the charge to demonize us for "bringing down the industry." If there is one pilot group that fell on their sword to protect all of us, it is Trans States. Our reward, apparently, is your condescension. Thanks.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy of that POS "last best offer" (BTW it was the first offer) of a Gojet TA. They tried to ram it down our throats to legitimize their violation of our scope. It was a piece of crap and I would vote no again today. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if we had voted yes, you would be leading the charge to demonize us for "bringing down the industry." If there is one pilot group that fell on their sword to protect all of us, it is Trans States. Our reward, apparently, is your condescension. Thanks.

It doesn't pay to "fall on your sword" in this union.....There are too many fellow union "brothers" ready to pick up your flying......Sorry but that's how it is....

The GoJet certificate was formed because of mainline scope language that prevented the 70 seaters from being on the TSA certificate...Again, we are our own worst enemy.....

 

[millhouse21]

It doesn't pay to "fall on your sword" in this union.....There are too many fellow union "brothers" ready to pick up your flying......Sorry but that's how it is....

The GoJet certificate was formed because of mainline scope language that prevented the 70 seaters from being on the TSA certificate...Again, we are our own worst enemy.....

OK, Joe, I know what you are trying to do here. This situation is not ALPA's fault. The company created the situation and could have fixed it any time they wanted to. They decided to keep it going. Their decision and I expect they will get their due some day. If not in this life then in another.

Having said all that, I was truly disappointed in ALPAs response to the situation. DW came, talked a lot of ********************, left, did nothing for six months or so, declared defeat. Yes, that sucked. IT STILL WASN'T ALPA's FAULT. Why can't you understand that?

All you Gojet apologists can kiss my ass. You know who you are.

 

[flyer172r]

If I remember correctly, and I'm not completely sure I do, the way the TA was worded it would've allowed the company to furlough based on equipment type and not on straight seniority. So if it had passed, any cutbacks in 145 flying (and at the time, J41 flying) would still mean TSA guys getting furloughed instead of gojet. I also believe that when it was voted down the union tried to get the company to sit down and negotiate another deal, but the company said "screw you guys, we're going home." More of an ultimatum than a TA as it turned out.

 

[JoeMerchant]

OK, Joe, I know what you are trying to do here. This situation is not ALPA's fault. The company created the situation and could have fixed it any time they wanted to. They decided to keep it going. Their decision and I expect they will get their due some day. If not in this life then in another.

Having said all that, I was truly disappointed in ALPAs response to the situation. DW came, talked a lot of ********************, left, did nothing for six months or so, declared defeat. Yes, that sucked. IT STILL WASN'T ALPA's FAULT. Why can't you understand that?

All you Gojet apologists can kiss my ass. You know who you are.

1. If it hadn't been for mainline scope language preventing you from flying UAL 70 seaters....There wouldn't have been another certificate.....Bad scope language.....

2. ALPA advised you folks to take the deal to prevent this....You ignored that advise....I don't often defend ALPA, but they were right in this situation.....You are better off taking the scope and dealing with the rest later.....

 

[Evansaero]

Even the ones hired since then?

Yes, It covered the entire group and future pilots. I could not in good conscious vote on a TA that would have allowed a Gojet new hire to be protected from furlough as one TSA pilot sits on the street. And I'm in the top 10% of the company.

 

[millhouse21]

1. If it hadn't been for mainline scope language preventing you from flying UAL 70 seaters....There wouldn't have been another certificate.....Bad scope language.....

2. ALPA advised you folks to take the deal to prevent this....You ignored that advise....I don't often defend ALPA, but they were right in this situation.....You are better off taking the scope and dealing with the rest later.....

Mainline scope was not ALPA. It also did not prevent one seniority list. See CHQ for details.

I was very unimpressed with the advise from ALPA at that time. They still did not cause it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Mainline scope was not ALPA. It also did not prevent one seniority list. See CHQ for details.

I was very unimpressed with the advise from ALPA at that time. They still did not cause it.

....you're right...it was APA scope language....same mistakes....CHQ bought the single list...you folks didn't....

Mainline pilots and ALPA/APA created this situation....Whipsaw is powerfull and it costs negotiating capital to buy it back...Nobody wants to pay for it, but everyone wants to complaign about the result....