Trans States downgrades and furloughs - Again...

[Evansaero]

Let's not call each other names. All I am saying is that the pilots and the mec should have been smarter then to put up a fight with repeated NOs. Yes and they should have worked out the deal later, Hulas knew he wasn't going to cut it with 50 seat pay on CRJ7s. Look at current contracts, no one flys 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. If you were a sweatshop owner in INDIA, would you care if your employees votes yes or no on a matter that would further increased your capital and the company?

No, the fact is that all the BS with alpa was a formality, Hulas was going to form it anyways either with the help of the pilots or with ought. A yes vote would have been better for the company as you can see what has happened the last few years and especially now.

Not only has GJ become what seems like a better operation but they have even got better pay and a contract. And are adding to their fleet.

Why did you come to TSA?

How would you know if gojet had a better ops?

Did you go over to gojet?

 

[CX880]

Why did you come to TSA?

It was the place to get quick Jet PIC

How would you know if gojet had a better ops?

They're not furloughing.

Did you go over to gojet?

No

post is too short

 

[Evansaero]

Just because a 70 seat company is not furloughing and a 50 seat company is furloughing does not equate to a better ops.

50 seats are out of favor...

Sorry that you are furloughed. Its only going to get worse and to blame this pilot group is very short sighted.

Gojets contract is no better than our contact that dates back to Aug 2000

Gojets 50 seat pay rate is $2 an hour less than what I make now.
And I have not seen a raise in 2 years

 

[CX880]

Gojets 50 seat pay rate is $2 an hour less

Huh? Every time you say 50 seats for GJ you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm not blaming any pilot group for my furlough.

 

[Evansaero]

Huh? Every time you say 50 seats for GJ you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm not blaming any pilot group for my furlough.

I'm pretty sure you have not a Fing clue as to what you are talking about.

GJ HAS A 50 SEAT PAY RATES....

LETTER OF AGREEMENT
between
GOJET AIRLINES LLC
and
THE PILOTS
in the service of
GOJET AIRLINES LLC
as represented by
THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS, AIRLINE DIVISION
________________________________________________________________________
JET AIRCRAFT WITH FEWER THAN 55 PASSENGER SEATS
________________________________________________________________________
This Letter of Agreement is made and entered into in accordance with the
provisions of Title II of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by and between GOJET
AIRLINES LLC (the “Company”) and the PILOTS in the service of GOJET AIRLINES
LLC. as represented by the INTERNATIONAL BROHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS,
AIRLINE DIVISION (the “Union”).
WHEREAS the Company does not currently operate jet aircraft with fewer than
55 passenger seats but may some day do so;
NOW THEREFORE, the Company and the Union have agreed as follows:
In the event the Company places into revenue service jet aircraft with fewer than
55 passenger seats, the hourly rates applicable to such aircraft will be as follows:
Captain
LONGEVITY DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS + 5
1st year $ 55.05 $55.88 $56.71 $57.56 $58.43 $59.30
2nd year $ 56.82 $57.67 $58.54 $59.42 $60.31 $61.21
3rd year $ 58.57 $59.45 $60.34 $61.25 $62.16 $63.10
4th year $ 60.33 $61.23 $62.15 $63.09 $64.03 $64.99
5th year $ 62.08 $63.01 $63.96 $64.92 $65.89 $66.88
6th year $ 63.84 $64.80 $65.77 $66.76 $67.76 $68.77
7th year $ 65.81 $66.80 $67.80 $68.82 $69.85 $70.90
8th year $ 68.00 $69.02 $70.06 $71.11 $72.17 $73.26
9th year $ 70.02 $71.07 $72.14 $73.22 $74.32 $75.43
10th year $ 72.19 $73.27 $74.37 $75.49 $76.62 $77.77
11th year $ 74.17 $75.28 $76.41 $77.56 $78.72 $79.90
90
12th year $ 76.49 $77.64 $78.80 $79.98 $81.18 $82.40
13th year $ 78.72 $79.90 $81.10 $82.32 $83.55 $84.80
14th year $ 81.19 $82.41 $83.64 $84.90 $86.17 $87.46
15th year $ 81.54 $82.76 $84.00 $85.26 $86.54 $87.84
First Officer
LONGEVITY DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 DOS + 5
1st year $23.00 $23.35 $23.70 $24.05 $24.41 $24.78
2nd year $30.00 $30.45 $30.91 $31.37 $31.84 $32.32
3rd year $34.00 $34.51 $35.03 $35.55 $36.09 $36.63
4th year $35.00 $35.53 $36.06 $36.60 $37.15 $37.70
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have signed this Letter of Agreement this
____ day of _____, 2007.
FOR THE INTERNATIONAL FOR GOJET AIRLINES, LLC
BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS
Donald Treichler Daniel Reed
Director, Airline Division Director of Operations
Daniel Heumann
President
Teamsters Local No. 618
Charles Dannels
Negotiating Committee Member
Chad Flolo
Negotiating Committee Member
91

 

[CX880]

Evansaero you are an idiot. That's if Gojet decides to operate fewer than 55 seats. Their current pay rate is not what you have above look at APC.com for current pay rates smart one. Good try though. Let your hate out.

If gojet has 50 seat payscales then I wonder what the other CRJ7/9 operators have since they are almost identical plus or minus a dollar............ You might be on to something.../....

 

[Evansaero]

Evansaero you are an idiot. That's if Gojet decides to operate fewer than 55 seats. Their current pay rate is not what you have above look at APC.com for current pay rates smart one. Good try though. Let your hate out.

If gojet has 50 seat payscales then I wonder what the other CRJ7/9 operators have since they are almost identical plus or minus a dollar............ You might be on to something.../....

So are you 1 of the 31 guys that applied to gojets after you got furloughed?

Hmmm... So their 50 seat pay rate is not current? It came from there current contract.

What is APC.COM? I thought you where going to show me a new trick

 

[CX880]

Hmmm... So their 50 seat pay rate is not current? It came from there current contract.

Airline PILOT central .com

DUDE!!!~! ARE YOU FOR REAL? GOJet doesn't fly 50 seaters.!!!!!! The 50 seat pay in their contract is ONLY if they flew 50 seater which they don't.

 

[Evansaero]

If gojet has 50 seat payscales then I wonder what the other CRJ7/9 operators have since they are almost identical plus or minus a dollar............ You might be on to something.../....

Almost Identical... ahhh right

Skywest

Republic

Comair

 

[CX880]

Almost Identical... ahhh right

Skywest

Republic

Comair

Yea Skywest wich combiunes 90 seats with 70 seats. 5th year CA at Skywest flying the CRJ7 AND CRJ9 makes 1 dollar more than a GOjet captain.........

Try MESA/AE/PSA/MESABA(CRJ9) and the rest.

 

[Evansaero]

DUDE!!!~! ARE YOU FOR REAL? GOJet doesn't fly 50 seaters.!!!!!! The 50 seat pay in their contract is ONLY if they flew 50 seater which they don't.

I never stated they flew 50 seat jets.

What I said for you (slow people) is that they have a pay rate.

You never answered my question. Did you apply to gojet?

 

[CX880]

I never stated they flew 50 seat jets.

What I said for you (slow people) is that they have a pay rate.

Don't try to justify your stupidity.... Otherwise why would you bring up the 50 seat rates which are meaningless.

 

[Evansaero]

why would you bring up the 50 seat rates which are meaningless.

meaningless... Do you really believe that?

How do you figure we try and negotiate a new pay rate (contract) when gojet pilots have under cut TSA pilots in the 50 seat market.

Did you apply to gojets when you got furloughed?

 

[CX880]

meaningless... Do you really believe that?

How do you figure we try and negotiate a new pay rate (contract) when gojet pilots have under cut TSA pilots in the 50 seat market.

Did you apply to gojets when you got furloughed?

Oh brother, never heard this one before. Gojet is the least of your problems. TSA is a bottom feeder and it will always remain that way that's not the fault of any other airline or pilot group. Don't be shocked if your pay will remain on par with other bottom feeders. If you don't like it get another job like many of us did by saying F U to JohnnyO and walked out of MESA in 07. Skywest, Expjett, and Horizon for example have high pay or at least by a few dollars more because managment want happy customers/workers and they know that they're not bottom feeders. Do you think UPS and FEDEX pilots got that big raise a few years ago because the UNION did a good job?? Just because gj has some obscure pay in the bottom of the contract that doesn't even apply since they don't and will never fly 50 seats doesn't mean all hope is lost for TSA. Anything to blame others I guess.....

 

[Evansaero]

Oh brother, never heard this one before. Gojet is the least of your problems. TSA is a bottom feeder and it will always remain that way that's not the fault of any other airline or pilot group. Don't be shocked if your pay will remain on par with other bottom feeders. If you don't like it get another job like many of us did by saying F U to JohnnyO and walked out of MESA in 07. Skywest, Expjett, and Horizon for example have high pay or at least by a few dollars more because managment want happy customers/workers and they know that they're not bottom feeders. Do you think UPS and FEDEX pilots got that big raise a few years ago because the UNION did a good job?? Just because gj has some obscure pay in the bottom of the contract that doesn't even apply since they don't and will never fly 50 seats doesn't mean all hope is lost for TSA. Anything to blame others I guess.....

4/06 you had 70 TT and 2 years later you know it all.

You have a lot to learn.

 

[CX880]

4/06 you had 70 TT and 2 years later you know it all.

You have a lot to learn.

Yea right, good luck let me know if you want to trade jobs. Unemployment is great, I guess I have a lot to learn.

 

[Evansaero]

Yea right, good luck let me know if you want to trade jobs. Unemployment is great, I guess I have a lot to learn.

I'm sure you'll pick yourself right up when gojet calls for that interview

 

[rtmcfi]

Yea right, good luck let me know if you want to trade jobs. Unemployment is great, I guess I have a lot to learn.

You do have a lot to learn. Perhaps you should consider flight instructing for a while.

 

[bigjukka]

This has got to be a put-on. I don't think even a Gateway pilot is as retarded as this. A-ron, are you having a conversation with your alter-ego??

C'mon

If it's real, well, I even feel bad for Pete P.

 

[Flyerdan]

I remember we had a go-jet pilot in our newhire class. When we did our intro about were we were from and what equitment we had flown. One guy (total "tool") stood up and said he flew for TSA airlines. The instructor asked what equitment. the "tool" said the CRJ-700!! the best part is the instructor stood up through down his pen and said lets get this straight you flew for GO-JET not TSA!!! is that right!! the "tool" said yes sir and sat down. There were 4 TSA pilots in that class also.. They were mad!!

Man this is old news. If I was a go-jet pilot I think I would definitely have to beat the crap out of anyone who treated me like that. Those people are just trying to work just like everyone else. I swear, sometimes I think airline union pilots are just gang bangers that learned to fly.

 

[redbook]

Man this is old news. If I was a go-jet pilot I think I would definitely have to beat the crap out of anyone who treated me like that. Those people are just trying to work just like everyone else. I swear, sometimes I think airline union pilots are just gang bangers that learned to fly.

Good luck tough guy.

 

[Minimaniac]

I'm just wondering when pilots are going to get serious about scope.....They had a chance to get a single list....We are our own worst enemy.....

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. That is like saying you should buy your own car back off the guy who just stole it out of your driveway. TSA had scope, and it was violated. Why should they take concessions to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place?

Go-Jets will always be a disgrace to the airline profession. Unionizing does not fix the fact that you cut the throats of TSA pilots, and sent your CO-WORKERS to the street through furloughs while you added flying and jobs. It is disgusting. Don't ever come around looking for equal treatment and respect from me. Maybe in 40 years, when the majority of pilots who remember how Go-Jets came to be have retired, the Go-Jets legacy will be forgotten and you will be looked upon as just another airline. Until then, get bent.

 

[Razorback Flyer]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. quote]

Minimaniac has some good points. Its true that TSA holdings started gojet to get around the AA scope - but a separate certificate doesn't mean you have to have separate lists. Republic holdings has three certificates, all staffed by one master list. TSAH could have CHOSEN to do this as well, but were not legally obligated to do so - and could use 2 lists to leverage 2 groups against one another. Not surprisingly, this was the course of action they chose to pursue.

It is also true that we could have put an end to it by voting in the TA and putting everyone on one list. But the TA was riddled with vague language and loopholes, furlough protection for the gojetters, and very poor pay rates going forward. As one pilot said "it was a crappy offer, but it was the best offer we were going to get. It was a Sh*t sandwich, but we should have eaten the sh*t sandwich, gotten it over with, and put the threat behind us." I personally don't agree with this - there were too many loopholes that could still have screwed the TSA pilots, and as someone else has mentioned, we then would have been deomnized for joining/leading the race to the bottom.

The pilot group was definitely not to blame for this. In a similar analogy to what Minimaniac used, it was kind of like dealing with someone who’s robbing you at gunpoint. They might offer to spare you life and not steal your driver’s license if you give them everything else in your wallet. It’s a better offer than being shot. But its still a bum deal, you don’t know if he’ll keep his word, and it doesn’t make him any less a criminal.

I think the union was overconfident about the outcome of the situation, which, I believe led to some poor decisions. But I still believe blaming them is like blaming the robbery victim. The company could have chosen to do the right thing from the start, and they did not.

In any event, This company is laying off one group while hirring to another. That is never the right thing to do.

Best of luck to all waterskiers. Know that leaving TSA will eventually leave you better off, whether you know it right now or not.

 

[CX880]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. That is like saying you should buy your own car back off the guy who just stole it out of your driveway. TSA had scope, and it was violated. Why should they take concessions to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place?

Go-Jets will always be a disgrace to the airline profession. Unionizing does not fix the fact that you cut the throats of TSA pilots, and sent your CO-WORKERS to the street through furloughs while you added flying and jobs. It is disgusting. Don't ever come around looking for equal treatment and respect from me. Maybe in 40 years, when the majority of pilots who remember how Go-Jets came to be have retired, the Go-Jets legacy will be forgotten and you will be looked upon as just another airline. Until then, get bent.

What ever happend after the vote is of no consequence. You voted NO live with it. You're not going to change TSA even if GJ wasn't around. As the poster above mentioned, management could have done the right thing but they didin't because they're bottom feeders and would prefer to hire monkeys as long as they can fly an airplane.

You got screwed by the UNION get over it. GJ was going to be formed with or with out your approval of merging seniority lists. It's a free economy. People signed on, formed a union and a contract. Now they're doing well while TSA is not. Now it's all about could've, woud've, should've. It's getting retarded.

 

[Skippy]

how did they get screwed by the union? x880 or whatever?

last i remember the deal highlights were :

1. a ********************ty payrate
2. loss of vacation for more senior people
3. only 5 years longevity to be brought over
4. and like a 10 year contract extension which got halved at the last minute or something.
5. more loopholes than i've ever seen with any LOA at TSA.

It was a complete joke and 75% of the people thought so.

this thread got toally hijacked but when you have TSA furloughing and geauxjet hiring and getting more planes it's gonna get nasty.

SKIPPY

 

[motch]

Hay CX..

you probably would have made a great NAZI guard, or Gulag Kommandant.. or one of those other great indivuals who follows orders and goes along with "injustice" instaed of trying to do the right thing, or at least make a stand for rightness.

Everyone at TSA knew that, even by voting NO, they may not have a second chance but it was still the right thing to do.
As someone who was part of the LEC at the time, I can tell you that there was also pressure from National to "accept the bad deal" cause we'll fix it later and it's more important to get them within ALPA National's grasp.
Funny thing is, that is exactly how the Freedom/Mesa deal went down and that opened the door for the Gojet/TSA deal.
Even if we had voted yes, there would be TSA pilots senior to GoJet pilots getting bumped out of the left seat today (my opinion). There were hugh loophholes in the LOA and when we (MEC/LEC) attempted to have examples written into the LOA, the company refused.

RazorBack has explained it better than anyone can so I'll leave it at that.

 

[rjacobs]

Man this is old news. If I was a go-jet pilot I think I would definitely have to beat the crap out of anyone who treated me like that. Those people are just trying to work just like everyone else. I swear, sometimes I think airline union pilots are just gang bangers that learned to fly.

SSSSSSCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBB. Spoken like a typical sympathizer.

 

[CX880]

Hay CX..

you probably would have made a great NAZI guard, or Gulag Kommandant.. or one of those other great indivuals who follows orders and goes along with "injustice" instaed of trying to do the right thing, or at least make a stand for rightness.
.

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

I don't believe you ever answered the question as to whether or not you've applied at HOjets...your constant defense of the Hulas creation to screw TSA pilots seems to indicate that you are indeed attempting to HO(oops, typo... "go") there!

 

[ToiletDuck]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. quote]

Minimaniac has some good points. Its true that TSA holdings started gojet to get around the AA scope - but a separate certificate doesn't mean you have to have separate lists. Republic holdings has three certificates, all staffed by one master list.

The then pilot group didn't just get make that happen. The had to give a lot for it.