Tough Choice--SWA or UPS?

[MVSW]

UPS!!! And I would love NOT having to deal with pax. UPS UPS

 

[Wingsweep]

Where I grew up, you would be called a DS

I have 5 factors that I think are important: Job security, pay, benefits, quality of life, and culture.

Did you think up these five factors all on you own? I must say, they are very original. Most people would have included color of the airplanes, or fit of the uniform as important issues. My guess is you're the guy who can't decide between pancakes or steak for dinner.

Hey, Flightinfo folks. I can't decide between pancakes or steak for dinner. My five factors are: flavor, texture, cost, meal size, and distance from Mecca. Like I said, what a DS. Cheers

 

[Below Mins]

Are you kidding me? These pilots wont have union protection like the UPS pilots. They simply should walk away from their jobs so that the UPS pilots can squable over the difference from 13.7 million in a career and 14 million? Smoke some more CRACK DUDE

It's all about right versus wrong. Moving struck goods is wrong. Like 410dude says, you belong in management. By the tone of your posts, sounds like you're the one smoking crack, DUDE!

 

[flybrowntails]

wingsweep:

best post i have read in a while.

fbt

 

[WillowRunVortex]

It's all about right versus wrong. Moving struck goods is wrong. Like 410dude says, you belong in management. By the tone of your posts, sounds like you're the one smoking crack, DUDE!

Look at 410's profile. Nuff said. I fly passengers, and will eventually retire from the airline I am with, and trust me, I want nothing to do with taking out the trash everynight anymore. Been there done that. But I am a mentor to a few young hopefuls over there at Willowrun, and here we go again with friggen UPS strike CRAP. Every company over there will book trips with UPS and expect their pilots to fly them. It is a situation that basically is not fair for the YIP pilots. BIG BROWN EYE isnt even an AIRLINE! It is a parcel service! Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

"Cripes, why are there so many idiots trolling on this board just looking to get a rise out of people? Go back to playing Flight Sim, moron. You can fly those "cool" 747s and A380s all day long... lock the door to your room so Mommy won't interrupt you now..."

post from jbDC9 regarding 410dude


Evidently he didnt take the hint. Run along and play 410, and get off daddy's computer OK?

 

[TonyC]

Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff.

What began as my response to Widow's Son's post has turned into your crusade for scabs.

Let's break this down into two topics. First, the comment I made:

Teamsters will support an IPA strike.


This one is cut and dried, no need for discussion, in my opinion. I made this point to highlight the absurdity of Widow's Son's assertion that "if and when a nasty negotiation meltdown occurs" the strike could be circumvented with replacement "foreigners or scabs." (Foreign replacement pilots would be scabs, too, so I'm not impressed by the distinction. I suppose we could break it down into domestic scabs and foreign scabs, but who really cares? Scabs are scabs.) A strike by IPA will not be circumvented by scabs, because Teamsters pick up and deliver UPS packages, and UPS Teamsters will absolutely support an IPA strike. All the scab pilots in the world can fly all the brown airplanes anywhere they please, but the packages will be stuck on the ramps, because the brown trucks won't be moving.

Next, WillowRunVortex's assertion:

Scabbing against UPS is Okay.

Again, there's no need for discussion, but we'll discuss it anyway.

This is Dead wrong. The advice to anyone flying struck work that they will be "wrongly acused [sic] of being a scab" is FALSE. Anyone flying struck work would be RIGHTLY accused of being a scab, because they WOULD BE a scab, by even the strictest definition. No other issue, condition, or circumstance would mitigate this fact or is even relevant.

Other words and phrases you use to describe this fact of life:

"load of crap"

"[un]fair in anybody's book"

"a load of B.S."

"not fair "

All inaccurate, misleading, ignorant, and wrong.

I consider it extremely frightening that you consider yourself a mentor. Even more frightening still would be the belief by young pilots that you really ARE their mentor. Spreading this kind of advice can have no good consequence. Should you persuade others to scab, you will have their sin on your hands.



Let's review, shall we:

1) IPA strikes, Teamsters honors.

2) Scab = WRONG










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[WillowRunVortex]

What began as my response to Widow's Son's post has turned into your crusade for scabs.

Let's break this down into two topics. First, the comment I made:

Teamsters will support an IPA strike.


This one is cut and dried, no need for discussion, in my opinion. I made this point to highlight the absurdity of Widow's Son's assertion that "if and when a nasty negotiation meltdown occurs" the strike could be circumvented with replacement "foreigners or scabs." (Foreign replacement pilots would be scabs, too, so I'm not impressed by the distinction. I suppose we could break it down into domestic scabs and foreign scabs, but who really cares? Scabs are scabs.) A strike by IPA will not be circumvented by scabs, because Teamsters pick up and deliver UPS packages, and UPS Teamsters will absolutely support an IPA strike. All the scab pilots in the world can fly all the brown airplanes anywhere they please, but the packages will be stuck on the ramps, because the brown trucks won't be moving.

Next, WillowRunVortex's assertion:

Scabbing against UPS is Okay.

Again, there's no need for discussion, but we'll discuss it anyway.

This is Dead wrong. The advice to anyone flying struck work that they will be "wrongly acused [sic] of being a scab" is FALSE. Anyone flying struck work would be RIGHTLY accused of being a scab, because they WOULD BE a scab, by even the strictest definition. No other issue, condition, or circumstance would mitigate this fact or is even relevant.

Other words and phrases you use to describe this fact of life:

"load of crap"

"[un]fair in anybody's book"

"a load of B.S."

"not fair "

All inaccurate, misleading, ignorant, and wrong.

I consider it extremely frightening that you consider yourself a mentor. Even more frightening still would be the belief by young pilots that you really ARE their mentor. Spreading this kind of advice can have no good consequence. Should you persuade others to scab, you will have their sin on your hands.



Let's review, shall we:

1) IPA strikes, Teamsters honors.

2) Scab = WRONG










.

OK, Now I would like you to give me the info I should tell these 2 young folks, (one with a newborn), when they refuse a UPS trip and predictably, are fired and immediatly loose their income. I dont want to hear about dignity, I want real answers to real questions, such as what will I do to put food in my baby's mouth?

 

[TonyC]

OK, Now I would like you to give me the info I should tell these 2 young folks, (one with a newborn), when they refuse a UPS trip and predictably, are fired and immediatly loose their income. I dont want to hear about dignity, I want real answers to real questions, such as what will I do to put food in my baby's mouth?

Tell them that you don't have the honor or integrity to advise a snake.


The right thing to tell them is "Don't fly struck work." It's also very simple.


If you can't tell them the right thing, don't tell them anything at all.





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[WillowRunVortex]

Here is the problem,,,pilots do just fine over at Willow Run flying mostly auto freight. The biggest problem seems to be everytime contract negotiations start at UPS, pilots at Willow go Oh boy here we go. Because YIP is in the freight business they are automatically called to solve your guy's problems.


P.S, Plus Connie taught your company how to do it prior to 1988

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Tell them that you don't have the honor or integrity to advise a snake.


The right thing to tell them is "Don't fly struck work." It's also very simple.


If you can't tell them the right thing, don't tell them anything at all.





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Ya know, I should have known better to engage in a conversation with an ex- mil guy who puts C-172 in the aircraft experience section, says it all brotha

 

[Hobiehawker]

A scab is a scab and is one for life. No doubt about that. This kinda falls in a grey area for me.

I'm rather certain if UPS or FEDEX ever struck that they would possibly use the PAX carriers to haul some of their freight. Would these pilots be considered scabs also? What about a PAX carrier going on strike and the airline on strike books their PAX on other airlines. I might be missing something here. I would think if UPS or FEDEX strike then a scab would be one to cross their lines and fly their colors. I know during busy times like xmas, at least in the past, UPS would charter other freight airlines to pick up the increase demand. Doesn't this violate some type of scope? Maybe it doesn't even relate.

 

[TonyC]

Here is the problem,,,pilots do just fine over at Willow Run flying mostly auto freight. The biggest problem seems to be everytime contract negotiations start at UPS, pilots at Willow go Oh boy here we go. Because YIP is in the freight business they are automatically called to solve your guy's problems.


P.S, Plus Connie taught your company how to do it prior to 1988

No, here is the problem:

Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and you can't seem to distinguish the difference.

SCABBING is wrong. All the words you use to attempt to justify it are nothing more than Wuh, wuh, wuh, wuh, wuh and blah blah blah blah blah. In the end, SCABBING is still wrong. You're only wasting your breath.



Mobilize every freight airplane in the world, and you're still stuck with the FACT that UPS freight will not be delivered by a Teamster if the IPA strikes. UPS freight will not be picked up by a Teamster if the IPA strikes. One day after an IPA strike begins, there will be no freight TO move. I don't even understand why you'd be slightly concerned. You're expending an awful lot of credibility capital on a non-issue. In fact, I'd say you're unarmed at this point.





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[WillowRunVortex]

A scab is a scab and is one for life. No doubt about that. This kinda falls in a grey area for me.

I'm rather certain if UPS or FEDEX ever struck that they would possibly use the PAX carriers to haul some of their freight. Would these pilots be considered scabs also? What about a PAX carrier going on strike and the airline on strike books their PAX on other airlines. I might be missing something here. I would think if UPS or FEDEX strike then a scab would be one to cross their lines and fly their colors. I know during busy times like xmas, at least in the past, UPS would charter other freight airlines to pick up the increase demand. Doesn't this violate some type of scope? Maybe it doesn't even relate.

No your not missing anything. Thanks for the response, appreciate it.

 

[TonyC]

Ya know, I should have known better to engage in a conversation with an ex- mil guy who puts C-172 in the aircraft experience section, says it all brotha

Yepp, as I suspected, you're out of ammunition and down to personal attacks.



Thanks for playing.






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