Today's Wallstreet Journal, page B3...Union Strong

[G4dude]

Why would anonymity be important to you on a private message board?

Some union enthusiasts are rather emotional about differences of opinion. Being stuck with one of those guys in the cockpit for a tour would be unpleasant. Conversations on message boards can be more frank and honest and informative if we don't have to worry about reprisals for having a different opinion from the more vocal members of the herd.
I remember my favorite post from an antagonist here on Flightinfo who said, " I bet you would not say these things on a non-anonymous board!" Or words to that effect. My answer was, "You are absolutely right, and you are making my point."

 

[realityman]

Some union enthusiasts are rather emotional about differences of opinion. Being stuck with one of those guys in the cockpit for a tour would be unpleasant. Conversations on message boards can be more frank and honest and informative if we don't have to worry about reprisals for having a different opinion from the more vocal members of the herd.
I remember my favorite post from an antagonist here on Flightinfo who said, " I bet you would not say these things on a non-anonymous board!" Or words to that effect. My answer was, "You are absolutely right, and you are making my point."

Sorry, just a bunch of excuses.

I have already listed a bunch of ways you can get info from the union boards without needing to be visibly involved on them.

I forgot to mention that you can also text, email, or call any/all of the Eboard directly for info on what you may be interested in (although that does bypass the message boards). Same with the stewards.

If you were truly interested in what's going on, why certain things are being done the way they are, what you can expect going forward, etc... you would go to the source of information (Eboard and stewards and committee members, all of whom can be found on or through the message boards) and the people directly involved (the pilots) rather than coming to an anonymous message board and soliciting uninformed opinions because you're worried there MIGHT BE one or two people out there who would want to talk about your opinions (and theirs) during a flight. Especially considering you can always simply say, "I'd rather not discuss it while on duty. I have more important things to think about right now.". I've NEVER heard of any real problems in the cockpit because of unwanted discussion from any "union enthusiasts".

But what's worse is, we have a HUGE fight with the company that's underway right now. There have been, are, and will be things we'll have to do, both individually and as a group, that will make us uncomfortable. This isn't an organized martial arts sparring match for points, this is a knock-down drag-out anything goes fight for our lives where the winner takes all. And whether you approve of this whole thing or not, you are stuck in it! In reality, there are no sidelines to sit on here. Why? Because the company doesn't keep a list of those who simply don't participate in the union "antics". In their eyes, you're a pilot, and therefore a fair target for their games. So even if your opinions aren't in line with the union group think, you're in the middle of it buddy! And you're worried that a little conversation with a "union enthusiast" will make you uncomfortable?! You may as well quit Netjets now if that's the case, because things are going to get far more uncomfortable for everyone than just a little cockpit conversation.

Good luck with all that. But honestly, now would be a great time to use our message board for the info you want, and even to spark up your own conversations there. Mostly, the discourse has been very civil recently, even when dealing with glaring differences of opinion. If you aren't towing the union line, that's fine, but remember it's going to be the union that pulls your fat out of the fire if you fall victim to the company's games, because as a pilot, the company only views you as an enemy, regardless of your views on the union and our tactics.

 

[G4dude]

Sorry, just a bunch of excuses.

I have already listed a bunch of ways you can get info from the union boards without needing to be visibly involved on them.

I forgot to mention that you can also text, email, or call any/all of the Eboard directly for info on what you may be interested in (although that does bypass the message boards). Same with the stewards.

If you were truly interested in what's going on, why certain things are being done the way they are, what you can expect going forward, etc... you would go to the source of information (Eboard and stewards and committee members, all of whom can be found on or through the message boards) and the people directly involved (the pilots) rather than coming to an anonymous message board and soliciting uninformed opinions because you're worried there MIGHT BE one or two people out there who would want to talk about your opinions (and theirs) during a flight. Especially considering you can always simply say, "I'd rather not discuss it while on duty. I have more important things to think about right now.". I've NEVER heard of any real problems in the cockpit because of unwanted discussion from any "union enthusiasts".

But what's worse is, we have a HUGE fight with the company that's underway right now. There have been, are, and will be things we'll have to do, both individually and as a group, that will make us uncomfortable. This isn't an organized martial arts sparring match for points, this is a knock-down drag-out anything goes fight for our lives where the winner takes all. And whether you approve of this whole thing or not, you are stuck in it! In reality, there are no sidelines to sit on here. Why? Because the company doesn't keep a list of those who simply don't participate in the union "antics". In their eyes, you're a pilot, and therefore a fair target for their games. So even if your opinions aren't in line with the union group think, you're in the middle of it buddy! And you're worried that a little conversation with a "union enthusiast" will make you uncomfortable?! You may as well quit Netjets now if that's the case, because things are going to get far more uncomfortable for everyone than just a little cockpit conversation.

Good luck with all that. But honestly, now would be a great time to use our message board for the info you want, and even to spark up your own conversations there. Mostly, the discourse has been very civil recently, even when dealing with glaring differences of opinion. If you aren't towing the union line, that's fine, but remember it's going to be the union that pulls your fat out of the fire if you fall victim to the company's games, because as a pilot, the company only views you as an enemy, regardless of your views on the union and our tactics.

Fair enough. Although I don't feel this is a "winner take all" "fight for our lives." Just a negotiation. I will probably get a new deal similar to the one we have now, with the money rearranged a bit. I'm not sure we deserve more than that. I would like more, but we seem to be fairly compensated.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

Fair enough. Although I don't feel this is a "winner take all" "fight for our lives." Just a negotiation. I will probably get a new deal similar to the one we have now, with the money rearranged a bit. I'm not sure we deserve more than that. I would like more, but we seem to be fairly compensated.

It is not a winner take all nor is it a fight for our lives. That's just hyperbole. At some point, neither side will fight for it all - that is not negotiation (the NMB will intervene if necessary) and compromise will happen. The vote of an approved CBA will be somewhere between 50%+1 and 90% (there is always 10% that will never vote in favor). Just the reality of it.

As to compensation, maybe in your world you feel adequately compensated but on the non GLC side that can't be said for everyone so there is no "we" in your "I am not sure we deserve more than that" statement. The survey data I am sure shows that others feel differently.

 

[realityman]

Sorry, let me alter the "hyperbole" to better fit.

It is the fight for our livelihoods.

And it IS a winner take all. This next CBA will decide if Netjets is just another crappy job, or a great career stop.

This EMT is hellbent on reducing our compensation package, our QOL at work, and even our very job satisfaction.

It will be a hard enough fight to maintain what we already have, and an absolute street brawl to make improvements. The EMT will get nastier, and we'll have to do the same if we hope to have any chance.

I'm not sure why you think our fate rests in the hands of a mediator. A mediator has NO POWER to force either side to agree to anything. If I'm wrong about that, please point out where. The only REAL power the NMB has to affect our negotiations is the ability to release us to self help. But the NMB will ultimately be deciding exactly nothing for us or the company.

The best compensated jobs in aviation all have had their moments where they made a very large leap in their contracts. They had to go the distance and were not worked out through reasonable mediated efforts where ultimately both sides just talked it out and met in the middle. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe this is OUR moment to make that leap. I've been here almost 18 years, and this time around just FEELS like this is the one.

This IS winner takes all. Either the EMT will get what they want, or we will. The first one to blink is going to get run over. I don't see a lot of middle ground here. Maybe if the EMT had been at least respecting us and treating us better all along, I might agree with you more. But they've openly attacked us using some pretty awful intimidation techniques and games, and I'm seeing more and more angry pilots ready to go the distance. Some people I never would have expected it from. I'm seeing fewer and fewer pilots who will accept a mediocre CBA this time.

Only time will tell.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

Sorry, let me alter the "hyperbole" to better fit.

It is the fight for our livelihoods.

And it IS a winner take all. This next CBA will decide if Netjets is just another crappy job, or a great career stop.

So the loser has nothing? So if the EMT wins the pilots having nothing? If NJASAP wins then the Company has nothing? Can you define what "all" is? IF the pilots dont get everything they want does that mean they did not get "all" and therefore they lost?

This EMT is hellbent on reducing our compensation package, our QOL at work, and even our very job satisfaction.

So what? The pilot group won't agree on any of it so it means nothing other than a rallying cry for the pilot group.

It will be a hard enough fight to maintain what we already have, and an absolute street brawl to make improvements. The EMT will get nastier, and we'll have to do the same if we hope to have any chance.

Quite possible. The pilot group will step up to the task.

I'm not sure why you think our fate rests in the hands of a mediator. A mediator has NO POWER to force either side to agree to anything. If I'm wrong about that, please point out where. The only REAL power the NMB has to affect our negotiations is the ability to release us to self help. But the NMB will ultimately be deciding exactly nothing for us or the company.

I never said our fate rests with the NMB. All I said is that if negotiations reach an impasse, then mediation will happen. Exactly, what is happening with the Flight Attendants. If negotiations further breakdown and after a cooling off period and re attack, then the NMB can release both parties to self help. That is a strike for the pilots. That is voiding the current CBA for the Company.

The best compensated jobs in aviation all have had their moments where they made a very large leap in their contracts. They had to go the distance and were not worked out through reasonable mediated efforts where ultimately both sides just talked it out and met in the middle. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe this is OUR moment to make that leap. I've been here almost 18 years, and this time around just FEELS like this is the one.

Isn't that what I said in my first post on the NMB?

This IS winner takes all. Either the EMT will get what they want, or we will. The first one to blink is going to get run over. I don't see a lot of middle ground here. Maybe if the EMT had been at least respecting us and treating us better all along, I might agree with you more. But they've openly attacked us using some pretty awful intimidation techniques and games, and I'm seeing more and more angry pilots ready to go the distance. Some people I never would have expected it from. I'm seeing fewer and fewer pilots who will accept a mediocre CBA this time.

Only time will tell.

There will be middle ground in a series of give and take. Somewhere between 50%+1 and 90%. I don't like what the Company is doing anymore than the next guy. Just not going to get all up tight about it - if the CBA does not meet my expectations then I will vote no and encourage the guy in the seat next to me to do the same.

 

[Pervis]

New ad today.

 

[johnsonrod]

Love it!

Link to website from the ad as well:

http://genuineqs.com

 

[johnsonrod]

This is an overview of the ad found in today's WSJ (B3):

http://genuineqs.com/qs_ads.html

 

[T-1GUY]

Bravo!!! It's about time the offense gets on the field!!!!