Time For SkyWest Pilots To Step Up

[BigHangar]

Time For SkyWest Pilots To Step Up!!!

Imagine this, ASA pilots continue to fight for a better contract, but SkyWest management does not want to give it to them. ASA starts to make some ruckus, what do you think would happen? Thats right, SW mgmt will give the flying to SW and the SW pilots cant do anything about without a scope clause in a contract. So think about who is screwing who. If the SW pilots had a contract with scope or some merger/aquisition language, it would prevent SW mgmt from whipsawing one pilot group against the other. This would obviously lower the bar for everyone. And if I hear one more SW pilot tell me their pay and QOL is equal to or as good as anybody out there, Im going to puke. Pay might be almost on par in some areas, but QOL is far from airlines with unions.

Please please SW pilots, we are all in this industry together, we all need to watch out for each other. We all need to feed our families and being non-union hurts this fraternity of pilots. Step up to the plate and start the union drive. Do it for your new co-workers.

 

[Tomct]

Amen Brother! The time is now guy's and gals!!!

 

[bvt1151]

I have faith in the Skywest pilots. They are in a position to do more damage to pilots as a whole by accepting ASA and Comair aircraft than Mesa or CHQ has done with their contracts. I fully expect them to do whats right and refuse to fly aircraft that are given to them because other airlines labor contracts are higher than theirs.

 

[BigHangar]

I agree, I think they will do the right thing too. I just hope the few young ones over there and the other koolaid drinking folks can be persuaded to understand the reality of what is going on in the industry. I know personally out of the numerous friends I have there, every single one started with little knowledge of unions, which made them a little anti-union. Now however, every single one of them really wants union representation.

 

[jbDC9]

This would obviously lower the bar for everyone. And if I hear one more SW pilot tell me their pay and QOL is equal to or as good as anybody out there, Im going to puke.

And if I hear the term "lower the bar" one more time, I'm gonna puke. Holy crap that phrase is tired, overused and cliched by now, perhaps even more so than "scab!". That and "race to the bottom...", they're done to death.

Need some new cliches here, something shiny and new... maybe something that'll go along with SJS mentioned in another thread. (Shiny Jet Syndrome)

 

[BigHangar]

Agreed, the term is overused. Must be a reason for that. Ill use the abbreviation KMIB = Kicking Me In the Balls

That might make you puke too though.

 

[DX Rick]

Yes, ALPA comes and saves the day once again, and we never hear pilots bitch anymore about QOL, Pay, Seats and crew meals. What a relief.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

I just hope the few young ones over there and the other koolaid drinking folks can be persuaded to understand the reality of what is going on in the industry.

Funny you say that.. I have several Skywest friends and have met many others casually. More than anything I'd say that they have their hiring profile down pat, because there is little difference between personalities from one SW pilot to another. It's a good thing really, because they're a pretty cool group of folks there overall.......But......

One thing I have always noticed, is that there is a distinct line one crosses at roughly year 3 at SW. I'd say in my observations that almost everyone there fewer than three years drink the kool aid hard. To them, SW is the greatest place on earth, and they have serious SERIOUS company pride. BUT.... For some reason, once they cross this imaginary 3 year point, they become miserable, anti-management, and pro-union. Strange..... Anyone know why??

 

[JoeMerchant]

Imagine this, ASA pilots continue to fight for a better contract, but SkyWest management does not want to give it to them. ASA starts to make some ruckus, what do you think would happen? Thats right, SW mgmt will give the flying to SW and the SW pilots cant do anything about without a scope clause in a contract. So think about who is screwing who. If the SW pilots had a contract with scope or some merger/aquisition language, it would prevent SW mgmt from whipsawing one pilot group against the other. This would obviously lower the bar for everyone. And if I hear one more SW pilot tell me their pay and QOL is equal to or as good as anybody out there, Im going to puke. Pay might be almost on par in some areas, but QOL is far from airlines with unions.

First, how long do you think it would take for the SKYW pilot group to join ALPA and negotiate this great contract with fantastic scope language? 3-5 years from now, they may actually have a contract that probably would be thin in Section 1. That would be a day late and a dollar short for any help to ASA.

Secondly, you say that "QOL is far from airlines with unions". Are you saying that Mesa, Transtates, and Pinnacle have better "QOL" than SKYW. I would have to disagree.

Please please SW pilots, we are all in this industry together, we all need to watch out for each other. We all need to feed our families and being non-union hurts this fraternity of pilots. Step up to the plate and start the union drive. Do it for your new co-workers.

Please put the crack pipe down Big Hanger - we have drug testing in this business. We SHOULD be in this industry together (but we're not). We SHOULD watch out for each other (but we don't). The ALPA "fraternity" is far from a "brotherhood".

Joe

 

[ArcticFlier]

BUT.... For some reason, once they cross this imaginary 3 year point, they become miserable, anti-management, and pro-union. Strange..... Anyone know why??

14 plus years at SKYW..............I'm far from miserable and anti-management. I don't like some of what they've done (rules changes, -200/-700 'deal Holt an ace' crap, etc., etc..), but from running a company standpoint, they've done a good job.

Pro-union..............you nailed that one, though. .333.............not a bad average in baseball. Why? I don't like moving targets (unilateral changing or the rules) unless they have antlers. I like to know what's expected of both of us, not just me.


AF

 

[amcnd]

So what does the ASA ALPA MEC have to say about this deal? No new hotline message?

 

[Otto Coarsen]

Hmmmm..... There must be a hole in my theory

As for the union thing, they are only as good as your elected leaders. ALPA national clearly doesn't look out for the best interest of regional pilots (arguably any pilots) but the concept of a collective bargaining agreement that is agreed upon by both parties is certainly a huge plus.

Here at Mesa, we have a very bad combination in that we have fuzzy grey contract language set fourth by a segregated, ineffective, and self serving MEC coupled with a dictatorship type, anti-worker style management. It would be a poor example to say "unions are bad" when contrasting life at Mesa compared with life at Skywest. A union at Skywest would likely be successful in that the CBA would likely be well thought out and the management would honor their end of the deal. It would provide some QOL security in an everchanging regional airline environment.

Also, it is rarely discussed, but ALPA serves pilot groups in some other ways. I'm referring to ALPA legal primarily. As airline pilots, we are really kind of sub-contractors for our employers in that we must hold our own FAA licenses in good standing. What good are you as a pilot without a valid certificate? Lots of unplanned things could happen in one's career that normal everyday safety precautions may not be able to prevent. If the airline, or possibly even you yourself put your certificate in jeopardy, it's nice to know that you have the resources of a very powerful legal team protecting your career. Not your job, you can lose that......but..... your career as a whole....I feel that's pretty significant.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

The last Union drive at SkyWEst was in house Proposal UPA Unified Pilots Assoc. They did have a website. UNified pilots.org...think it is fubar now. It failed at about 37%. It was to be similar to the in house at SWA. The drive had a lot of momentum and support from SLC/DEN. The other bases flopped. The California bases seem to think the state law covers their at will status at OO. They are waking up slowly as QOL. continues to decline. ALPA, inhouse, teamsters, or a chinese labor union would be better than SAPA. They can't tie their shoes without approval from SGU. They also get 106 credit hours for being in management training(sapa).

 

[Bluto]

There are many significant benefits to being ALPA aside from the basic pay/contract stuff that people bring up here routinely. I think you'll see an ALPA drive at SkyWest in the near future and I'm thinking it could pass, but as mentioned above, I don't think it'll help with the ASA acquisition much. It'll take years before we have a contract and the first one is generally pretty pathetic.

For better or worse, I think ASA is in for a little taste of what it's like to work for SkyWest: They may treat you great, they may not, but there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

And if I hear the term "lower the bar" one more time, I'm gonna puke. Holy crap that phrase is tired, overused and cliched by now, perhaps even more so than "scab!". That and "race to the bottom...", they're done to death.

Need some new cliches here, something shiny and new... maybe something that'll go along with SJS mentioned in another thread. (Shiny Jet Syndrome)

It's almost like these guys are 'allergic to money.' What the f*ck's up with that!

 

[kngarthur]

Imagine this, ASA pilots continue to fight for a better contract, but SkyWest management does not want to give it to them. ASA starts to make some ruckus, what do you think would happen? Thats right, SW mgmt will give the flying to SW and the SW pilots cant do anything about without a scope clause in a contract. So think about who is screwing who. If the SW pilots had a contract with scope or some merger/aquisition language, it would prevent SW mgmt from whipsawing one pilot group against the other. This would obviously lower the bar for everyone. And if I hear one more SW pilot tell me their pay and QOL is equal to or as good as anybody out there, Im going to puke. Pay might be almost on par in some areas, but QOL is far from airlines with unions.

Please please SW pilots, we are all in this industry together, we all need to watch out for each other. We all need to feed our families and being non-union hurts this fraternity of pilots. Step up to the plate and start the union drive. Do it for your new co-workers.

You know what? Skywest doesn't have to do crap!!!!!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

MEC Chairman sent an email message last night addressing the sale. Seems they have been anticipating this and have been semi prepping for it. Check your email.....

 

[Black Water Dog]

I agree, I think they will do the right thing too. I just hope the few young ones over there and the other koolaid drinking folks can be persuaded to understand the reality of what is going on in the industry.

The reality of this industry is that I'll be in an RJ for the duration thanks to union scope clauses at the majors. Thanks a lot "brothers".

Going from a weak ALPA carrier to SkyWest, I would have to say the koolaid tastes pretty good. OK, waterskiiers need a union with the slimy management they have. Here the case is not to clear cut. And yes, the pay rates are better than most others. A few are higher, but how many of them are growing?

 

[ArcticFlier]

I would have to say the koolaid tastes pretty good. OK, waterskiiers need a union with the slimy management they have. Here the case is not to clear cut.

Drop the koolaid.................and wait. You'll see how clear cut it is.

And yes, the pay rates are better than most others.

Until ASA's -700 rate is whipsawed against ours and our -200 rate is whipsawed against theirs.


AF

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The reality of this industry is that I'll be in an RJ for the duration thanks to union scope clauses at the majors. Thanks a lot "brothers".

Going from a weak ALPA carrier to SkyWest, I would have to say the koolaid tastes pretty good. OK, waterskiiers need a union with the slimy management they have. Here the case is not to clear cut. And yes, the pay rates are better than most others. A few are higher, but how many of them are growing?

This toolbox is a perfect example of why we can't get a union on board, it thinks that growth is the answer, what happens when the growth stops? The same toolboxes that said "I will get mine when I upgrade" are gonna whine like puppies pulled off of the teat! Well BWD, if and when the music stops you can swing my gear until the music starts again. I am already far enough up the ladder,unless the company fails, I GOTS MINE, you? I am slowly becoming weary talking to these moron talking heads spouting, "I'm gonna take the quick upgrade, so I can get 1000PIC and move on to LUV, FedEx, ect"
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid
PBR
P.S. The only thing weak at your previous carrier was you!

 

[BigHangar]

Please put the crack pipe down Big Hanger - we have drug testing in this business. We SHOULD be in this industry together (but we're not). We SHOULD watch out for each other (but we don't). The ALPA "fraternity" is far from a "brotherhood".

Joe

You know what? Skywest doesn't have to do shoot!!!!!!

Sorry everyone, I forgot to turn on the retard filter.

Let me be clear...I can tell you first hand that the QOL at SW is below par, period. How do I know you might ask? Because I flew there a couple of years ago, and I know back then it wasn't even close to the carriers I've been with that have contracts. Speaking with friends, it's only gotten worse.

I can't give you details about QOL at SW vs. Mesa, Pinnacle and Transtates, but I find it funny you're selecting those three as a comparison. They're generally the ones everyone uses as an example of weak contracts that they are or will be working on in the future. Even Mesa has scope, and there is a lot to be said for those guys not giving up their jobs or their futures and selling out another airline just because their mgmt wants to. Why didn't you say ExpressJet, Comair or American Eagle?

True story that happened to me at SkyWest, and it happened almost every week and still happens to everyone I know there. After giving my left testicle to the company in so many ways, I had them assign me some abusive scheduling crap that was clearly illegal per the company manual. So I call up scheduling and tell them that it's in writing and they can't do that to me. The scheduler tells me that indeed that is true, but the company was hurting that day for staffing, and the rules in the book could be changed at anytime if really needed by the company. I had nothing to say. I had no contract, she was right. I threw that book in the trash right then, because it didn't mean anything.

Case in point. Do you think it costs more money or less money to have a contract that is enforceable? The answer is obvious. With that said, you have to realize that mgmt will always favor the cheapest labor. That is their job. If you make the whole industry somewhat more relative, then that can't happen. If you make it less relative, other groups inevitably get hurt.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

Big Hangar...."the RETARD filter".....lmao lol damn funny now that was Classic..you rock!!!!

 

[Crossky]

The reality of this industry is that I'll be in an RJ for the duration thanks to union scope clauses at the majors. Thanks a lot "brothers".

Like the majors owe you something? Pilots at regionals are lucky to be here, where the growth is. I would rather the jobs stay at the majors, but alas, that's not the case. What would you expect of SKW if you were mainline Delta or United?

Going from a weak ALPA carrier to SkyWest, I would have to say the koolaid tastes pretty good. . . . And yes, the pay rates are better than most others. A few are higher, but how many of them are growing?

I hope you get a nice big red koolaid stain all over your VanHuesen 'Aviator' shirt. With SKW buying ASA, my astrologer tells me SKW is getting 90 seat jets for Delta Connection in the future, and you'll be doing it for 50 seat pay. That's where your common pay rate (50 - 99 seats) is going to get you. "Thanks a lot "brothers" " yourself.

Now go vote ALPA in so SKW can integrate ASA without too many "brothers" getting hurt, please.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yes, ALPA comes and saves the day once again, and we never hear pilots bitch anymore about QOL, Pay, Seats and crew meals. What a relief.

IN-HOUSE UNION Guys/gals!

 

[skywestdrvr]

It's funny how we are already being blamed for getting ASA's deliveries. We are a pilot group just watching our management do their thing. You guys need to open your eyes and not blame our pilot group for buying ASA. What happened to the "brotherhood"? Why should we "help out" ASA pilots? What did they or any other pilot group do for us? I am all for welcoming ASA aboard but stop the blaming. You are just a bunch of bitter people with nothing to do but complain. We will do what is best for our group just like Mesa, ACA, ASA, American Eagle, Comair and everyone else has done for theirs. What we do is our business. We will do our best but don't blame your contract and your loss of flying on our pilot group because our management had millions in the bank and Delta is in financial trouble. Take care and Safe Flying to all.

 

[skywestdrvr]

One more thing, the pilots you can blame are the ones who went from Mesa to Freedom. Those are the kind of pilots that should be blamed for some of the things that happen in this industry.

 

[BigHangar]

It's funny how we are already being blamed for getting ASA's deliveries. We are a pilot group just watching our management do their thing. You guys need to open your eyes and not blame our pilot group for buying ASA. What happened to the "brotherhood"? Why should we "help out" ASA pilots? What did they or any other pilot group do for us? I am all for welcoming ASA aboard but stop the blaming. You are just a bunch of bitter people with nothing to do but complain. We will do what is best for our group just like Mesa, ACA, ASA, American Eagle, Comair and everyone else has done for theirs. What we do is our business. We will do our best but don't blame your contract and your loss of flying on our pilot group because our management had millions in the bank and Delta is in financial trouble. Take care and Safe Flying to all.

Just reread the posts, I don't think anyone is blaming SkyWest pilots....yet. That is the point of the post. It's in your hands to make sure there doesn't need to be any blaming. I'll be the first to say, I don't necessarily think buying ASA is a good or bad thing. I just think the outcome is what's important. You summed up my point well by saying, "We will do what is best for our group..." My point exactly. ASA is now your group, so make sure you do what is best for your entire group.

 

[rtmcfi]

It's funny how we are already being blamed for getting ASA's deliveries. We are a pilot group just watching our management do their thing. You guys need to open your eyes and not blame our pilot group for buying ASA.

I don't see anyone blaming the SkyWest pilots.

You are just a bunch of bitter people with nothing to do but complain.

I don't see very many of the ASA folks as bitter. They have their 5%, just as SkyWest has their 5%.

Why should we "help out" ASA pilots? What did they or any other pilot group do for us

When it comes time for a new contract (agreement) do you want mgmt to be paying ASA less? Do you want to raise your rates up to theirs? Perhaps you would rather bargain down if they were to take an inferior contract to SkyWests? One thing they did not do to SkyWest was undercut them.

We will do what is best for our group just like Mesa, ACA, ASA, American Eagle, Comair and everyone else has done for theirs.

This is not particularly helpfull... This type of thinking has led us to the current state of the regional industry. Speak for yourself. There are plenty of SkyWest pilots that do not suffer from myopia.

We will do our best but don't blame your contract and your loss of flying on our pilot group because our management had millions in the bank and Delta is in financial trouble.

Again, who are all of these people blaming SkyWest Pilots. Most of the ASA response has been guardedly optomistic. Don't gloat over SkyWest mgmts prowess or good fortune. Arrogance is the quicksand of success.

Take care and Safe Flying to all.

Could not agree more.

 

["GO AROUND"]

BigHangar,

Having a contract doesn't mean the company has to follow it any more than they didn't at SKW. ASA managment violates or reinterprates(sp) our current contract at their whim everyday when it benefits them at the time. The standing policy with ASA managment is that it is cheaper to violate the contract they signed with us and go through the grievance process than to live by the contract. Then they proceed to fight the grievance to the mediation process and pay their legal firm of putz, putz and schmuck 15 to 20 K in billable hours for the process. We just have the representation to fight back and waste the time and resources of the union and company. Here's an example that happened to me. I was assigned a trip at the end of last month that had me scheduled for 97 hour and 44 minutes for the month. Our contract clearly states that we cannot be assigned a trip that schedules us for more than 97.5 hours in a month. After going round and round with the schedulers about how 97.44 is less than 97.50 and me arguing that 97h and 44m converts to 97.7 they actually changed the scheduled block on my first leg so it was 14 minutes less and therefor made me legal for the trip. This is going to the grievance process shortly.

 

[NoJoy]

After SKW gets unionized, what would prevent management from creating an AlterEgo airline?