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Things to do in mormonland
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User998
Posting On One Engine
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Good grief, I fly off to the east coast for one day, come back and now all this!
I think I'm going to let the Dutchman take over here, he seems to know what he's talking about. I don't think I have near enough time to devote to this thread!
Uncle Rico, thank you for the civil rebuttals and information you provided previously to my answers and statements.
I think I'm going to let the Dutchman take over here, he seems to know what he's talking about. I don't think I have near enough time to devote to this thread!
Uncle Rico, thank you for the civil rebuttals and information you provided previously to my answers and statements.
Flyingdutchman
Well-known member
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- Jul 29, 2002
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uncle Rico -
One last time.......
read and respond please :
Do you want to trust Mormon doctrine?
Following is a list of a few doctrines of Mormonism. Do you want to put your eternal trust in a church that teaches the following doctrines?
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.
user -
Screw that buddy. It's 75F outside, Im going to the pool, and have myself a few cold ones.
nuff' said.
FD
One last time.......
read and respond please :
Do you want to trust Mormon doctrine?
Following is a list of a few doctrines of Mormonism. Do you want to put your eternal trust in a church that teaches the following doctrines?
- The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635. They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.
- After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.
user -
Screw that buddy. It's 75F outside, Im going to the pool, and have myself a few cold ones.
nuff' said.
FD
Last edited:
User998
Posting On One Engine
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Posts
- 97
Before I turn this over to Dutchie, I do have a few more questions and comments for Uncle Rico, since he responded so civil earlier. To follow up on a couple answers he'd given to my questions earlier.
And furthermore, why would God wait until the mid 1800's to decide to start speaking to all his inhabitants and children again? What about from the period of when Christ died on the cross, to when Joseph Smith popped out the ole Seeier stone? Where was God supposedly during all this time, and what about all the lost souls that would've lived during that period, and had no been exposed to Christ?
Explain to me again these thee other publications that you use to supplement the legitimate Bible with. Where did they come from, how were they obtained, who wrote them, etc. Again, my religion and most others don't have supplements to go along with the Bible. What was written in the Bible, has stood firm for 2,000 years, and hasn't needed revisions, additions and omissions, and extra teaching material to reach the masses.
And just for the record, your religion has been proven to be false, and a cult many, many times, by many Biblical Scholars throughout the world.
There was also great persecution in my church, hundreds of martyers thrown to the lions, hung on crosses, stoned to death, but you don't see my religion being on the defensive with anyone who asks questions or doesn't believe in what we say!
And I copletely disagree with your statement that living amongst other groups of people that I don't belong to create animosity towards them. That must be a church doctrine to "explain" to you guys why so many people don't like you. This is America baby. In my small community we have Catholics, Protestants, Metodists, Blacks, Mexican, Chinese, and we all get along.
And no I didn't live in SLC, as you had mentioned. I don't care to mention what town it was, for reasons of anonymity, but I can't imagine that anyone in the Mormon church wouldn't know where the second most Mormon populated area is!
So, you're telling me that my religion is false, because YOU believe that God doesn't only teach to one select group of people? My God does teach to all people, and all inhabitants of the world. It's called the Bible. The Bible gives you all the teachings you can read, and it isn't bound by the borders of a small country 2,000 years ago. It's been (even back then) dispersed all over the known world for those to read.UncleRico said:
And furthermore, why would God wait until the mid 1800's to decide to start speaking to all his inhabitants and children again? What about from the period of when Christ died on the cross, to when Joseph Smith popped out the ole Seeier stone? Where was God supposedly during all this time, and what about all the lost souls that would've lived during that period, and had no been exposed to Christ?
Explain to me again these thee other publications that you use to supplement the legitimate Bible with. Where did they come from, how were they obtained, who wrote them, etc. Again, my religion and most others don't have supplements to go along with the Bible. What was written in the Bible, has stood firm for 2,000 years, and hasn't needed revisions, additions and omissions, and extra teaching material to reach the masses.
I'd really like to see some references and proof to this. And not Mormon church links either, you can't fight an argument with yourself - of course they're going to tell you its all wrong!UncleRico said:
Actually it does, since you mentioned that YOUR Jesus is different the most other religions, then how can you try and pass him off as the same Jesus that non-Mormons believe in? You always make the claim to non-believes that you believe in Jesus, as if it's the same one that everyone else does - therefore making your religion appear a way that it's not.UncleRico said:
So, let me ask you this. My King James Version Bible does NOT say Jesus is brothers with Satan. You're book of Mormon does. But you also said earlier that you guys used the KJV Bible as well. So how do you explain the contradictions between the KJV and the BOM? One says Satan is not his brother, the other says it is??UncleRico said:
You're making a big assumption about me, while being defensive again, about what my intentions are about studying your religion. What makes you think my intentions of having an open-mind and trying to understand another religion, means I'm trying to disprove it? I took all of the available information and logic behind your religion, and I used it to form my own opinion of your religion, practices, and validity. As I've heard way too many of you guys say "It's a religion that works for me, and it may not work for you." Exactly, and it doesn't work for me. This is where you and I differ. I don't take everything at face value that my church tells me. I don't blindly follow "the shepherds" as the Bible clearly states you should not. For instance, if you were to tell me that the Christian religion was wrong, and provided me material to read concerning it. I would open-mindedly read it, and You guys instead always take the defense, it's us vs. them, and anyone that doesn't agree with our church is just out to prove you wrong, or tear you guys down. Not the case - case of paranoia maybe.UncleRico said:
And just for the record, your religion has been proven to be false, and a cult many, many times, by many Biblical Scholars throughout the world.
There was also great persecution in my church, hundreds of martyers thrown to the lions, hung on crosses, stoned to death, but you don't see my religion being on the defensive with anyone who asks questions or doesn't believe in what we say!
My uncle being in the church, my ex-girlfriend, my former co-workers, actually didn't cause me to not like the LDS church. It's what gave me the interest to research and delve into the religion, to better understand them and what they believed, and that in turn turned me off to the religion for various reasons. It also revealed to me how terribly wrong some parts of your religion are, and also how cult-like (and we're not talking just about devotion here) the whole organization is. Also, living a daily life surrounded by Mormons allowed to me see a lot of unethical and questionable things that you guys participate in, and furthermore turned me off to the validity of your religion. I don't think its fair to compare the different ethnic group, living in non ethnic areas to your church.UncleRico said:
And I copletely disagree with your statement that living amongst other groups of people that I don't belong to create animosity towards them. That must be a church doctrine to "explain" to you guys why so many people don't like you. This is America baby. In my small community we have Catholics, Protestants, Metodists, Blacks, Mexican, Chinese, and we all get along.
And no I didn't live in SLC, as you had mentioned. I don't care to mention what town it was, for reasons of anonymity, but I can't imagine that anyone in the Mormon church wouldn't know where the second most Mormon populated area is!
User998
Posting On One Engine
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Posts
- 97
And about this cult checklist. Give me a break saying that any religion can be viewed as cult like. Sure they can if you use that loose definition you gave me - no doubt from the church. Why would they want you to believe or make you think that you were a cult.
Let's look over it, and anyone who has ever known a Mormon for any amount of time, can verify the checkmarks that I'm going to place on it.
From the website:
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
YES - The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
YES - Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
POSSIBLY - Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
YES - The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear,
where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
YES - The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
YES - The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
YES - The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
YES - The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
YES - The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
NO - Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
YES - The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
YES - The group is preoccupied with making money.
YES - Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
YES - Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
YES - The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
USER998's COMMENTS START HERE:
Seriously guys, whether you admit it out loud or not, you guys are a cult. My religion is not structured like this, and we're not a cult. Your leaders of the church have a mind-control, and pyscological control on all it's members that is indredibly impressive. And what's sad is, despite all the facts being shown to you, and even lookin at the above checklist (created by a foundation that specializes in non-biased cult research), you guys still don't get it. You've been conditioned to not accept anyone but your church's thoughts and "take on life".
I'm not saying you have to admit it, but in the back of your head, I think we're all intelligent enough to see through all of the BS.
Just remember, the followers of Jim Jones, and Jamestown didn't realize they were in a cult because of the brainwashing, until they all moved out to the jungle and committed mass suicide by drinking poison-laced Koolaid.
Let's look over it, and anyone who has ever known a Mormon for any amount of time, can verify the checkmarks that I'm going to place on it.
From the website:
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
YES - The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
YES - Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
POSSIBLY - Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
YES - The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear,
where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
YES - The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
YES - The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
YES - The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
YES - The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
YES - The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
NO - Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
YES - The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
YES - The group is preoccupied with making money.
YES - Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
YES - Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
YES - The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
USER998's COMMENTS START HERE:
Seriously guys, whether you admit it out loud or not, you guys are a cult. My religion is not structured like this, and we're not a cult. Your leaders of the church have a mind-control, and pyscological control on all it's members that is indredibly impressive. And what's sad is, despite all the facts being shown to you, and even lookin at the above checklist (created by a foundation that specializes in non-biased cult research), you guys still don't get it. You've been conditioned to not accept anyone but your church's thoughts and "take on life".
I'm not saying you have to admit it, but in the back of your head, I think we're all intelligent enough to see through all of the BS.
Just remember, the followers of Jim Jones, and Jamestown didn't realize they were in a cult because of the brainwashing, until they all moved out to the jungle and committed mass suicide by drinking poison-laced Koolaid.
Last edited:
Flyingdutchman
Well-known member
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- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 1,571
Wow USER998, you figured me out. I've been led astray by my cult leaders in SLC, even though i'm from florida. They TOLD me who to marry, (lucky for me, she is really hot) they have told me how many kids to have, (I have 3) I have not yet met my quota, so I'm being fined 10% of my income until I get to 10 kids. (the secret mormon police come and collect every week)They have told me that it's really easy to raise 10 kids even though i'm an airline pilot, we are having a class this saturday on how to milk the government out of every welfare penny we can get. I think they are even going to have a "how to raise chickens" class sometime soon, that should be good, I hope they go and poop all over the neighbors yard because I don't want that kind of mess in mine. They also rough me up if If I have contacted my family who are not members of the church.
I alway thought that the "us against them" mentality was perpetrated by those "anti-mormons" but now by your long rantings, I realize that as I have been in sunday school studying the old testament, trying to be a good neighbor that it was just a trick. They tricked me into being a nice guy so I could "recruit" my neighbors as well.
I always wondered what happend to my tithing and fast offerings, I was told they went to build churches, feed the hungry, and do good in the world.
I guess none of that money was sent to the tsunami or katrina victims, the relief aid must have been a cover up. All of my free time I spend helping out friends in need, all of the people I helped moved, fix their house, mow lawns, taken dinners to when babies were born (which my hot wife fixed, the church forces all of them to learn to cook) I guess I should stop all of that before I get in to deep. Then again, the mind control is to strong, I can feel myself trying to resist but ITS JUST.....TO.......STRONG!!
I'm glad that you also told me that the Jesus Christ I believe in isn't the right one. I was told there was just one of him, I didn't know there were others.
I guess I believed in the wrong one, but all of this time believed I was believing in the right one, but was decieved by my church leaders.
Wow, jim jones? so if the church leaders buy an island and ask all 12 million of us to move there, should I go? (that would be a big Island, maybe they should just buy a whole continent with all of the money they are hording)
Thanks for all of the good you have done putting down this world wide church, the time you spent bashing and belittling it was what Jesus Christ would have done, maybe I'll start my own quest to pull down the southern baptist church or any other goodly orginization that are not mormon.
Can you help me out with a FAX number that I can send in a resignation letter? will it look bad on me if I just up and quit right now or should I give them 2 weeks to find some other sucker to be their mind slave?
Also, is there a mormon protection program? If they abuse me so much now, how much more will they abuse me when I quit there bad, bad, bad church?
I might need to move out of the U.S.A to get away, oh, wait, there are more church members outside of the U.S. than inside the U.S. now!!
There everywere!!!! OH NO..... THERE HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!! THEY MUST BE MONITORING MY INTERNET AND PHONE LINES!!! SOMEONE HEEELLLLLLPPPPP MEEEE.........................STOP, DON'T..... LEAVE ME ALO
I alway thought that the "us against them" mentality was perpetrated by those "anti-mormons" but now by your long rantings, I realize that as I have been in sunday school studying the old testament, trying to be a good neighbor that it was just a trick. They tricked me into being a nice guy so I could "recruit" my neighbors as well.
I always wondered what happend to my tithing and fast offerings, I was told they went to build churches, feed the hungry, and do good in the world.
I guess none of that money was sent to the tsunami or katrina victims, the relief aid must have been a cover up. All of my free time I spend helping out friends in need, all of the people I helped moved, fix their house, mow lawns, taken dinners to when babies were born (which my hot wife fixed, the church forces all of them to learn to cook) I guess I should stop all of that before I get in to deep. Then again, the mind control is to strong, I can feel myself trying to resist but ITS JUST.....TO.......STRONG!!
I'm glad that you also told me that the Jesus Christ I believe in isn't the right one. I was told there was just one of him, I didn't know there were others.
I guess I believed in the wrong one, but all of this time believed I was believing in the right one, but was decieved by my church leaders.
Wow, jim jones? so if the church leaders buy an island and ask all 12 million of us to move there, should I go? (that would be a big Island, maybe they should just buy a whole continent with all of the money they are hording)
Thanks for all of the good you have done putting down this world wide church, the time you spent bashing and belittling it was what Jesus Christ would have done, maybe I'll start my own quest to pull down the southern baptist church or any other goodly orginization that are not mormon.
Can you help me out with a FAX number that I can send in a resignation letter? will it look bad on me if I just up and quit right now or should I give them 2 weeks to find some other sucker to be their mind slave?
Also, is there a mormon protection program? If they abuse me so much now, how much more will they abuse me when I quit there bad, bad, bad church?
I might need to move out of the U.S.A to get away, oh, wait, there are more church members outside of the U.S. than inside the U.S. now!!
There everywere!!!! OH NO..... THERE HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!! THEY MUST BE MONITORING MY INTERNET AND PHONE LINES!!! SOMEONE HEEELLLLLLPPPPP MEEEE.........................STOP, DON'T..... LEAVE ME ALO
Last edited:
Flyingdutchman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 1,571
Guess I could buy you a beer too huh bro ?
chill down, I bet I would have no problem having a few beers with both of you guys. (as long as you bring some hot chicks with you).
believe whatever you wanna believe, just don't try to convince me with whatever you believe.
cheers, it's getting colder at the pool, FD is heading downtown to the bar.
FD
chill down, I bet I would have no problem having a few beers with both of you guys. (as long as you bring some hot chicks with you).
believe whatever you wanna believe, just don't try to convince me with whatever you believe.
cheers, it's getting colder at the pool, FD is heading downtown to the bar.
FD
Last edited:
User998
Posting On One Engine
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Posts
- 97
OK, whose the joker that sent the Mormons to try and convert ole User this afternoon??
I come home from running some errands, and as I pull onto my street theres two bikes padlocked to the stop sign right next to my house.
http://www.fileshack.us/files/1448/mormon_bikes.jpg
UEJ500, you dawg, was that you?!?!
I come home from running some errands, and as I pull onto my street theres two bikes padlocked to the stop sign right next to my house.
http://www.fileshack.us/files/1448/mormon_bikes.jpg
UEJ500, you dawg, was that you?!?!
Flyingdutchman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 1,571
Ask a mormon
If you want to know more about mormon beliefs you shouldn't ask a baptist or a catholic, but rather a Mormon. Go to www.mormon.org and research what we say we believe and leave the spin out of it. And you'll be surprised how many mormons are out there... around 12million or so. Fastest growing Christian religion in the World.
If you want to know more about mormon beliefs you shouldn't ask a baptist or a catholic, but rather a Mormon. Go to www.mormon.org and research what we say we believe and leave the spin out of it. And you'll be surprised how many mormons are out there... around 12million or so. Fastest growing Christian religion in the World.
User998 said:
Midnight Flyer
Stay Thirsty My Friends
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
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- 1,104
Just because it's the fastest growing religion in the world dosent mean it's right for everyone.FL410guy said:
I've heard the mormons on this message board say this over and over again: "if you want to know more about mormon beliefs you shouldn't ask a baptist or a catholic, but rather a Mormon". Thats bull$hit. You don't have to be a mormon to know alot about the mormon religion. Do you have to be an Boeing engineer to understand the systems of your airplane? NO.
What do you mean by "leave the spin out of it"? I think when a person is being taught about a religion, they need be told everything. People considering the mormon religion need to be made aware of these following items, even though mormons seem to find it difficult to talk about them.
1)the fact that mormons believe they can become gods
2)that they believe god came from another planet
3)that Jesus and Satan are brothers
RefugePilot
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