The Wright fight lives

[BLUE BAYOU]

What did American do to Legend at LUV?

 

[Flopgut]

What did American do to Legend at LUV?

Subjected them to the free market.

Two points: If they had truly been that well funded they would still be around. And, instead of a real plan, they went for the easy schtick of operating from Love. They should have gone to DFW, they might still be around or have been bought by AA.

Most importantly, they lacked the silver bullet. The trumped up court order Herb got to excuse SWA from free market forces.

 

[Flopgut]

[/quote]Hey, I'm not complaining....I work for the great SWA, have 3 homes, a great retirement and a 2006 Range Rover. I'm not bragging, but hey, this company has given me a life I would never have dreamed of ...and yes, I'm a legacy furloughee..[/quote]

OK. I don't care about the money so much. Good for you. However, you would have to agree that your stated status has become quite a cliche in this business. How many times for how many years have we heard the identical claim from a pilot from [insert almost any airline's name here] say the same thing? You say you worked for a legacy so you know this stuff.

The idea I would like to further here is that the consumer is not deservant of what this business is doling out. Go to any other industry and ask for the sort of sweeping discount we are handing over and you'll have the door slammed in your face.

Why do we have to be the idiots?

 

[radarlove]

Most importantly, they lacked the silver bullet. The trumped up court order Herb got to excuse SWA from free market forces.

Didn't that come all the way from the Supreme Court? That's the first time, ever, that I've heard a Supreme Court ruling be called "trumped up".

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I dislike when folks post, "Adapt or Die". But the point I take from it is we need to look at our careers like investors. I tend to ask, "Which companies have the best financials and ability to "Make It"? If it means thinking outside the box then I have to train myself to think outside the box. If it means leaving the industry, I should do it. I personally think there should be more regulation in this industry, but I don't have a say in it. I think it is right to have stable carriers so the lives of good, hardworking people don't get screwed up. What corporate raiders and unbridled competition have done is downright wrong. But I have to deal with the reality presented to me.

If I'm going to stay at an airline because it has a rich history and it MAY change for the better and become competitive somewhere down the road... well...I better be independently wealthy or have a spouse who can support the family as well as I can.

 

[Flopgut]

FBJ: Right, I get it. You have your head on straight. You can pick the best deal at the best company only to have the fundamentals completely change. As soon as you think your in the clear someone comes along and "gores your ox" and your toast. I know we can't do too much on our own as workers, but we should start a dialog on airfares. They are too low; we are ALL giving away too much. Raising airfares fixes everything, and always will.

Low hanging fruit is going to run out for SWA (the WA for instance). Your going to have to adapt and innovate. I'm comfortable enough to go ahead and attempt dialog while your top dog. Go ahead and stay at the top and lets discuss how to get these fares up (and do so, by the way, in a manner that uniquely serves the interests of the pilots!). Lets not wait til your costs go up and mine come down and we beat the crap out of each other til we have no 401k or B plan, no health insurance, and we fly for beans til we die! And then, lose our jobs entirely to someone like Ryanair who wants to operate a scheduled airline with free tickets.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Yeah, the low fares thing is bugging SWA employees too. Really!!

It helps SWA growth and is supposed to help keep labor in the box as the ROI stays less than optimal. Of course the fuel hedges are doing their thing. But it doesn't help the long run. I guess I would hate SWA too if I wasn't here.


Agreed. I hope it all balances out soon, but I'm thinking rolling fare wars will be the norm as Airtran flexes their muscles and JetBlue gets back to profitability. Oh, then there is Virgin USA, Spirit, Frontier and every other LCC that wants to expand. Americans love this turmoil.

 

[scoreboard]

Subjected them to the free market.

Flop, please remember what YOU say, please. Are you saying a free market is good? Sounds like it, yet, you set yourself up as hypocritcal and self serving with this ...

The idea I would like to further here is that the consumer is not deservant of what this business is doling out. Go to any other industry and ask for the sort of sweeping discount we are handing over and you'll have the door slammed in your face.

I'll answer this. GM and any car manufacture that sells at "Employee discount". Is that bad? I bet it's keeping them afloat. Do the customers deserve it? Read your "Free Market" comment.

I know we can't do too much on our own as workers, but we should start a dialog on airfares. They are too low; we are ALL giving away too much. Raising airfares fixes everything, and always will.

Just how do we start a dialog on something we do not control? How are we giving away anything? Yousaid yourself we don't control it, how are WE giving it away? Raising airfares fixes everything? If that were true, why didn't it work for Delta, United, Northwest, TWA? Nothing operates in a vacuum. See your note above "Free Market" economy.

 

[apdsm]

RE: Legend's demise

Subjected them to the free market.

I would like to nominate Flogput's statement for the 6FICMISYA!
(2006 FLIGHTINFO.COM MOST INACCURATE STATEMENT OF THE YEAR AWARD)

 

[Flopgut]

Score: I hear what you're saying. Free markets. There was an absence of a truly free market when Braniff got tossed out of Love. I know that is a delicate issue since you work for SWA. Think of it this way: There was an absence of a free market when UAL was not allowed to buy AWA and USAir. There is an absence of free market forces when code share agreements with Air France were recently squelched for NWA. The same could be said about the WA now in the context of it being created to help SWA launch, and now being lifted to when it suits your operation. Both instances artificially forced through poitically and a double whammy for everyone but SWA. (it is creepy when you hear a politician say "you folks come to a compromise or we'll hand you one", the WA IS the compromise! They are going to give what ever you want and they don't care who it screws!) Those sorts of negative aspects of our supposd free market system for airlines has created a terribly out of balance situation. If there were a true, free market in place from the start the US airline business that would be one thing. But there has not. It seems the whole situation has been orchestrated to make sure people get the cheapest airfares possible. Markets have been directed singuliarly to make the fares plummet, and they have.

If this were really a free market from the start, the US airline business would probably be two or three huge, worldwide conglomerates that were mega profitable. Kinda like the US cargo biz. To bad for all of us we are missing out on that.

I have to go for now.