Good point. But what next? the APA, PATCO, etc... really did more damage than most realize. So we have to work harder to get our strike threat back. Is rejecting ALPA as a whole and submitting to managmeent and gov't the solution?
PATCO? Wasn't that back in the 80's and how many strikes did we have since then? CAL, UAL, EAL, NWA, CMR? Come on, Rez. APA might have done some damage TO THEMSELVES, and I believe they settled it with the company. But hey look.... they weren't dragged through the BK mud. They're not just trolling BS lines like "Takin' it Back" they are actually talking specifics of what they want to take back and actual numbers. When has ALPA done that?
Also, how long are we going to cling on to PATCO and APA? I just don't see it as a relevant defense for knocking out the last of ALPA's teeth.
That has been my arguement when I got screwed in 2001 with out of seniority furloughs.
However, the end result would've been the same? You just want to make a last stand before the same end game?
(which is fine and respectable... I am just asking if that is where you are comong from....)
Rez, you know precedent setting. You and your union allowed this to happen. In a way, yes, it is making a last stand. Let me put it this way... if all it takes is company going in front of a bankruptcy judge, or claim some force majeur, and watch ALPA fold without a fight, you'll see the pattern continue until ALPA puts an end to it. You put an end to it by striking that bankrupt carrier and nailing the coffin shut.
ok... but what would have been the result of striking? How would that have saved your job in the end?
Walking away with dignity for starters, Rez. Think of it in terms of being mortally wounded, and you cover a grenade blast with your own body to protect your fellow pilots. In other words, you strike to stop this sh*t from happening to you, and every other union pilot out there, ALPA or not. Instead, we got this...
Remember Flying the Line II, where an EAL pilot says - I may not have a job, but Lorenzo doesn't have an airline!
That was the ALPA I want, and it was after PATCO. Instead, we got this abortion of a union.
So if you strike and shut down, then the operation stops and bsacially ends it for everyone. Everyone loses.
Rez, in our case, everyone already lost. The issue at hand was only HOW do we lose? We lost in a modern-day ALPA fashion - we got b*tch-slapped upside down and sideways.
Here's one thing that still gets me pissed. Some of our pilots who flew for free, including some of our union leaders, would say.... what about 300+ other employees who stand to lose jobs if pilots take action? My answer to that is.... have they paid a red penny to ALPA? If they didn't, my concern is not their job. It's my job, my union, and my profession. Are we willing to sacrifice all that for what $8/hour bag-smashers think? I'm not... but apparently ALPA is.
Or not strike and save some of the operation, some jobs with the intent of getting things going again?
So disregard the will of the majority yet again; put up with blatant disrespect and disregard for our contract all in hopes of starting over when the huge part of the company was gutted? I don't know, Rez. I have more dignity, pride and self-respect than that.
I'f I were responsbile for that 500K of dues money, I'd like to know that the strike had a good chance of working.... Do you think it would have?
It would set a precedent that the kind of abuse that you suffered in 2001 and we were suffering won't happen again to another ALPA group. Think it's worth it?
Look, you have valid points... but total rejection of ALPA isn't valid...
I don't totally reject ALPA. I think it's outdated, and over the years, grown irrelevant. It has its purpose, but bargaining is not its forte. It's become worse than a paper tiger.
