The union's action demonstrated the discipline of its membership.

[Freight Dog]

Did you speak up for ME when I was getting furloughed? I never recalled any outcry from ALOHA pilots when my airline FURLOUGHED me... OUT OF SENIORITY!!

I certianly didn't blame, YOU, Aloha, other ALPA pilots or ALPA national for federal laws and a system designed to screw workers.

I lived you pain. But I am still here trying to defend the profession...often times against cry babies with ALPA pins on thier tie.

Rez, nobody is blaming YOU. I blame ALPA for not changing with times FOR THE BENEFIT OF PILOTS. It has become a bureaucracy that's of no help. I blame them for NOT standing up and changing their f**ked up fundamentals early on truly for the pilot benefit. ALPA is FUBAR (F**ked up beyond all repair). It's time to send that ol' bird out to Mojave.

As for me, it's not a pain anymore. It's a relief! I'm done with that union bullsh*t. Open your eyes, man! What profession??! The one where your copilots work for less than my unemployment wage? The one where pensions literally get stripped and ALPA is worried about lawsuits more so than making walking the walk?

Give it a rest, Rez...

So.... who made the choice? Your MEC or your lawyers? Or ALPA National?

How's this for an answer... strong armed by ALPA National's LAWYERS to go to work!

Or you could get educated.

Oh I got educated alright. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME! Looks to me like you didn't learn a thing, Rez as you keep getting fooled.

Let's hang a turbofan on and rid us of the radial.

What is your solution? Zero representation?

In addition, YOU have done everything you can to better your union and yourself?

Yes, my solution is that I represent myself. I negotiate my own deal. I know and represent my OWN worth. My employer closes its doors, I go fly the same plane somewhere else FOR SAME MONEY, not taking a 70k paycut to fly the same damn thing with just a different logo. Yes Rez, ALPA has outlived its usefulness. It needs to die and we need to let it.

Rez, the fundamental difference between me and you is that I've learned from a mistake. You haven't. You are hellbent on trying to have a radial engine adapted to present day use. It just doesn't work. Time to hang it up and start over. Of all the people, you should understand it.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I didn't realize that employees had a say in CEO pay, much less a vote. You think we should stop voting at ALPA? Nice try at sidestepping the issue. Why not put Compensation for Officers to a membership vote? It is, after all, about the will of the voters, right?

What are your personal own LEC voter and LEC meeting particaption rates for 2007? It's not about me, Rez...it's about a Union whose foundation was built during regulation. Seniority does not work in today's unregulated market. It works against the pilot.

What is your real concern with ALPA national compensation? It's the double-standard hypocrisy of the situation. The officers at national level are there for, first and foremost, themselves. They have taken care of themselves financially while the membership twists in the wind. They adopt the same pay practices of the CEO's they attack. If the membership asks "what's in it for me?" they get a browbeating in the ALPA magazine by Chris Beebe about being an Apathetic Victim. It is a very nice facade, as GTgirl pointed out.

Well, what would have to change in order for National compensation to have value? I'll let my fellow pilots answer this

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, nobody is blaming YOU. I blame ALPA for not changing with times FOR THE BENEFIT OF PILOTS. It has become a bureaucracy that's of no help. I blame them for NOT standing up and changing their f**ked up fundamentals early on truly for the pilot benefit. ALPA is FUBAR (F**ked up beyond all repair). It's time to send that ol' bird out to Mojave.

My point! You have to blame someone. Something. Perfect for our society of victims. Everyone is a victim.

When I was fuloughed I didn't blame anyone. I reject cry baby status. I put the past behind me and moved and and made my own choices and lived by them.

Millions of Americans are being forced to re invent themsleves. Re educate and learn new skills... all because of our dynamic economy... that is life... they way it is.... why should we airline pilots be different? cause we are special? We have the glorious fix all ALPA?

As for me, it's not a pain anymore. It's a relief! I'm done with that union bullsh*t. Open your eyes, man! What profession??! The one where your copilots work for less than my unemployment wage? The one where pensions literally get stripped and ALPA is worried about lawsuits more so than making walking the walk?

Of course you are done with it. The airline you choose to work for couldn't compete... so they shut the doors. But wait... in America we love free market competition and captialism. We love winners and losers. So what is your problem? Is this idea of America new to you?

But be clear.... I reject these ideals in America, I believe in being your brothers keeper. Helping everyone. I reject dragging everyone down to a lower level so the lowest feels better.

And I reject whining and blame game attitudes. I didn't do it when I was furloughed..

Give it a rest, Rez...

I can't. I haven't been furloughed yet... (for the 3rd time). So until I do I am going to fight. When an engine fails and then a HYD system, I don't start blaming, crying, whinning and give up. I fight until the jet digs a crater... and just before I vaporize I'll tell myself I tried my best and hope my family repsects who I was... not a victim...

How's this for an answer... strong armed by ALPA National's LAWYERS to go to work!

So ALPA lawyers run your MEC?

Oh I got educated alright. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME! Looks to me like you didn't learn a thing, Rez as you keep getting fooled.

You and Bush... and least you said it right...

Maybe I am a fool, but I am not a self made victim.

Yes, my solution is that I represent myself. I negotiate my own deal. I know and represent my OWN worth. My employer closes its doors, I go fly the same plane somewhere else FOR SAME MONEY, not taking a 70k paycut to fly the same damn thing with just a different logo. Yes Rez, ALPA has outlived its usefulness. It needs to die and we need to let it.

Maybe that is what you want. We still need repsresentation...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

​

​

What were you doing during the good years? Were you understanding the plight of guys like me who getting furoughed out of seniority? Were you asking yourself, 'what if that happens to us... how can we mitigate the losses... Since times are good, lets build our defenses and war chest... and prepare for the down times... ' Were you thinking like that?

Rez, the fundamental difference between me and you is that I've learned from a mistake. You haven't. You are hellbent on trying to have a radial engine adapted to present day use. It just doesn't work. Time to hang it up and start over. Of all the people, you should understand it.

The fundamantal difference is you are hung up on your pain. For some reason you never got the message "life is not fair".

Sorry you are getting fuloughed. It has happened to me twice, so I know what you are going through. I am still struggling with my family. But I have also made my choices and I am not going to blame ALPA, gov't or industry and expect them to act in my best intrests when they can't or never said they would.

In addition, there is plenty that we as pilots can be doing to make our representation better, but we don't. We want to show up, fly our trips and go home.

Well....look where that has gotten us...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I didn't realize that employees had a say in CEO pay, much less a vote. You think we should stop voting at ALPA? Nice try at sidestepping the issue. Why not put Compensation for Officers to a membership vote? It is, after all, about the will of the voters, right?

That is not how it works in Congress. Why should it be different at ALPA when it isn't different.

There is a process. A democratic.. majority practice. Have you introduced a resolution at your LEC?

At the 2004BOD compensation was not an issue.
At the 2006BOD compensation was not an issue.

What do you think about the 2008BOD? NOW is the perfect time to start the process of addressing compensation at the 2008BOB this Fall. Will you do it?

So, as of now, its not an issue at the BODs, you haven't done anyting about it except whine on FI.

How can anyone take you seriously. I mean if it is really that important to you, then do something.

What are your personal own LEC voter and LEC meeting particaption rates for 2007? It's not about me, Rez...it's about a Union whose foundation was built during regulation. Seniority does not work in today's unregulated market. It works against the pilot.

Classic.... it is not about you. No way... can't be... how can you have any responsibility in this.

Seniority is no good anyomore... ok.. sure... do you suggest a different program or just no seniority.

If you have a better program than seniority then lets hear it...

If you think no seniority then we can all start playing favorites to the chief pilot. I hear it is nasty to try and compete with your fellow pilot to upgrade... The azz kissing, bootlicking and doing whatever some 19 year old community college drop out crew scheduler tells you to.....

[pilot calls home] its me. gotta work tonight
[wife] what? but its _____________. (insert special family event here: birthday, anniversary etc..)
[pilot] I know but I really want to upgrade and I don't want to piss off CP "What's His Nuts"
[wife] oh all right..... (hangs up losing more respect for her husband and her skin crawls at the thought of sex with him and his spineless body...]

What is your real concern with ALPA national compensation? It's the double-standard hypocrisy of the situation. The officers at national level are there for, first and foremost, themselves. They have taken care of themselves financially while the membership twists in the wind. They adopt the same pay practices of the CEO's they attack. If the membership asks "what's in it for me?" they get a browbeating in the ALPA magazine by Chris Beebe about being an Apathetic Victim. It is a very nice facade, as GTgirl pointed out.

Again....

There is a process. A democractic.. majority practice. Have you introduced a resolution at your LEC?

At the 2004BOD compensation was not an issue.
At the 2006BOD compensation was not an issue.

What do you think about the 2008BOD?

So its not an issue at the BODs, you haven't done anyting about it excpet whine on FI.

How can anyone take you seriously. I mean if it is really that important to you, then do something.
​

I am begining to think that you really don't understand how our culture and life works. While management and gov't continue to pound us, you are myopic on compensation, yet you won't do anything about it. In addition, your fellow pilots that you don't vote for, do not have an issue with compensation at the BOD.

In addition, you won't March on DC, picket, vote, give to the PAC... in short, you want to be served but you are unwilling to to your part. You want all the reward but none of the responsbility.

Well, what would have to change in order for National compensation to have value? I'll let my fellow pilots answer this

Or maybe you have no clue.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Nice post about the Nazis, Rez. Straight from the 30s, just like ALPA.

You're argueing under the false assumption that ALPA is a Union. It's going to go the way of seperate in house Unions.

 

[regionaltard]

There is a process. A democratic.. majority practice.

The fundamental notion of democracy is a good one, but actual democracies too often devolve into the tyranny of the majority (not necessarily in terms of numbers, but in power) or simple paralysis due to lack of consensus. ALPA is a good example of both happening simultaneously. It is currently by no stretch of the imagination a labor union in the classic sense.

The process that you worship is the vehicle that brought us here in the first place. Until there's a collective realization on the part of a critical mass of airline pilots that what we're doing now just isn't working and a willingness on the part of those who are jealously hoarding what they mistakenly believe to be "power" to surrender part of it for the greater good, buffoons like Doug Parker will continue to eat our lunch.

ALPA is doomed to fade into total irrelevance without a strong National leadership armed with a mandate to act in the best interests of the profession, the wisdom to know where those interests lie, and the courage to act in the face of opposition from those who feel disadvantaged by the shifting landscape. LEC resolutions aren't going to get it done. I'd go so far as to say that by creating the illusion of ownership of the process they probably have the opposite effect.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Regionaltard, I agree with your post.

 

[flygirlqt]

Nice post Regionaltard.

 

[JT8D]

The fundamental notion of democracy is a good one, but actual democracies too often devolve into the tyranny of the majority (not necessarily in terms of numbers, but in power) or simple paralysis due to lack of consensus. ALPA is a good example of both happening simultaneously. It is currently by no stretch of the imagination a labor union in the classic sense.

The process that you worship is the vehicle that brought us here in the first place. Until there's a collective realization on the part of a critical mass of airline pilots that what we're doing now just isn't working and a willingness on the part of those who are jealously hoarding what they mistakenly believe to be "power" to surrender part of it for the greater good, buffoons like Doug Parker will continue to eat our lunch.

ALPA is doomed to fade into total irrelevance without a strong National leadership armed with a mandate to act in the best interests of the profession, the wisdom to know where those interests lie, and the courage to act in the face of opposition from those who feel disadvantaged by the shifting landscape. LEC resolutions aren't going to get it done. I'd go so far as to say that by creating the illusion of ownership of the process they probably have the opposite effect.

That word courage says it all. ALPA has fallen into a sort of self protection mode and it's lack of REAL action on ANYTHING as of late (except for age 65, which NOBODY wanted) has rendered it a shell of it's former self.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The fundamental notion of democracy is a good one, but actual democracies too often devolve into the tyranny of the majority (not necessarily in terms of numbers, but in power) or simple paralysis due to lack of consensus. ALPA is a good example of both happening simultaneously. It is currently by no stretch of the imagination a labor union in the classic sense.

Sounds good... got a better idea for our situation?

The process that you worship is the vehicle that brought us here in the first place.

Its just the way of our Founding Fathers....

Until there's a collective realization on the part of a critical mass of airline pilots that what we're doing now just isn't working

Very good.... more and more pilots DOING SOMETHING!!! wow... what a concept... actually doing something...

Not being lazy and apathetic....

Now... how is collectively laziness ALPA's fault..

and a willingness on the part of those who are jealously hoarding what they mistakenly believe to be "power" to surrender part of it for the greater good, buffoons like Doug Parker will continue to eat our lunch.

What is the greater good? Too vague and broad... Don't get me wrong I am all for it... however what you think is the greater good and what he thinks is the greater good is different... For example, many pilots felt Age 65 was for the greater good. Many did not. So who is right?


Can you stick together when the going gets tough...

Like AAA and AWA? That was ALPA's fault and a power grab from the Power guys ....right....??

ALPA is doomed to fade into total irrelevance without a strong National leadership armed with a mandate to act in the best interests of the profession,

Agreed. Can you define what is in the best interests of the profession? Your interests? Mine? His? Hers? what about the other 55,996 pilots?

I agree, but isn't that the difficulty of it all...

the wisdom to know where those interests lie, and the courage to act in the face of opposition from those who feel disadvantaged by the shifting landscape.

Oh...so suddenly the ALPA National Leaddrship has to have the wisdom to know whats best for everyone.. (recall age 60/65?) and you advocate the courage to tell the opposition to pound sand.... Gee... that sounds like justification for the way ALPA handled Age 65.

LEC resolutions aren't going to get it done. I'd go so far as to say that by creating the illusion of ownership of the process they probably have the opposite effect.

So LEC resolutions don't get it done? What does?

"a strong National leadership armed with a mandate to act in the best interests of the profession"


Nice drivel and the kudos you got from the do nothing but whine and cry crowd. Don't try voting, thinking, engaging, working and defending... Just advocate that "until the collective and until the leadership". Too easy huh... IOW until someone else does something we are all phcuked... pathetic.

One of the flaws in your post is the fact that if/when ALPA becomes irrelevent.... what next....??

After you watch the house crumble and burn jumping up and down with glee.... the next morning someone is going to ask a very thought provoking question:

Now that we burned down our house.... where are we going to sleep tonight?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Like AAA and AWA? That was ALPA's fault and a power grab from the Power guys ....right....?? Why are you not happy for them Rez? They took part in a democratic process and they shook off Laziness and Apathy!Did the fact that it not go in hand with your master ALPA plan touch a nerve?

And what do you care for, in time you will hear less and less from them about how it's ALPA's fault...you should be relieved.

Agreed. Can you define what is in the best interests of the profession? Your interests? Mine? His? Hers?
Could you get any more vague about THE profession? How about Mainline vs Feeder? Better yet, SWA vs UAL...or even CMR vs MAG. That's the difference between your theory and the reality of it. In theory, I agree with you...we should all make half a million a year flying which ever equipment and routes best suits our needs. Is that going to happen in reality? The reality is that we're deregulated and it's a free market guided by $$$.

Oh...so suddenly the ALPA National Leaddrship has to have the wisdom to know whats best for everyone...I agree Rez. Now if you could just apply this to President Bush. He really can't be held accountable can he? Why should he be expected to know everything? Just a simple man like You or I.

Nice drivel and the kudos you got from the do nothing but whine and cry crowd. Don't try voting, thinking, engaging, working and defending... Just advocate that "until the collective and until the leadership". Too easy huh... IOW until someone else does something we are all phcuked... pathetic.Easy Rez, he's just giving One answer to the question you asked. Clearly, we are all "Clueless" if we do not agree with Rez.

Now that we burned down our house.... where are we going to sleep tonight? Deep, Deep question...this is going to require MUCH introspection on our beha....oh, wait...just form in-house Unions. Problem solved! Damn I am GOOD!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Like AAA and AWA? That was ALPA's fault and a power grab from the Power guys ....right....?? Why are you not happy for them Rez? They took part in a democratic process and they shook off Laziness and Apathy!Did the fact that it not go in hand with your master ALPA plan touch a nerve?

They did nothing until it was too late. Not sure how much creditbility you'll get championing USAPA. Do you support thier efforts to reneg on binding arbitration?

And what do you care for, in time you will hear less and less from them about how it's ALPA's fault...you should be relieved.

The impact on all of us for what USAPA has done will be felt... that is if you can think on a collective level.

Agreed. Can you define what is in the best interests of the profession? Your interests? Mine? His? Hers?
Could you get any more vague about THE profession? How about Mainline vs Feeder? Better yet, SWA vs UAL...or even CMR vs MAG. That's the difference between your theory and the reality of it. In theory, I agree with you...we should all make half a million a year flying which ever equipment and routes best suits our needs. Is that going to happen in reality? The reality is that we're deregulated and it's a free market guided by $$$.

So is it the free market of ALPA? And what are you going to do about it...

Oh...so suddenly the ALPA National Leaddrship has to have the wisdom to know whats best for everyone...I agree Rez. Now if you could just apply this to President Bush. He really can't be held accountable can he? Why should he be expected to know everything? Just a simple man like You or I.

I am not talking about leadership. Only you are. That is your ticket to irresponsibility...

Your hyprocrisy is you expect everyone else to behave they way you think they should but you refuse to accept any responsibility.

What responsibility does the membership have? As union members and Americans?

I am talking about what you can control. Voting, participating, marching, picketing...

But these are all things for the collective, not the individual. There is no instant gratification and immediate personal gain... that is why you won't do it.

You reject democracy, The US constitution, freedom or speech and self government. You disdain these things.

Nice drivel and the kudos you got from the do nothing but whine and cry crowd. Don't try voting, thinking, engaging, working and defending... Just advocate that "until the collective and until the leadership". Too easy huh... IOW until someone else does something we are all phcuked... pathetic.Easy Rez, he's just giving One answer to the question you asked. Clearly, we are all "Clueless" if we do not agree with Rez.

Its not me. All I am saying is vote, picket, attend meetings, fight for the profession. But you don't agree with that. That is beneath you.

This is all about your personal gain and what is in it for you. You want your gains at a fellow pilots expense. You don't want to give you want to take.

You M.O. is me me me, not what is best for the profession.

Now that we burned down our house.... where are we going to sleep tonight? Deep, Deep question...this is going to require MUCH introspection on our beha....oh, wait...just form in-house Unions. Problem solved! Damn I am GOOD!

No MCF, no support. Everyone regresses and losses ground. Sure its easier to defend smaller ground, but it is also very limiting.

Do you want to be the 50 United States or cuba? Your in house union dream is nothing but a group of little Cuba islands...


In house unions do not strike. They can't afford it. They take what management gives them.

 

[CopilotDoug]

They did nothing until it was too late. Not sure how much creditbility you'll get championing USAPA. Do you support thier efforts to reneg on binding arbitration? I don't have a dog in that fight, they are just one example of the membership NOT being lazy or apathetic.

The impact on all of us for what USAPA has done will be felt... that is if you can think on a collective level. Some might interpret that as finger pointing...they're not responsible for what happens to your company, and Your company is not responsible for theirs.

So is it the free market of ALPA? It's deregulation, and ALPA doesn't fit into that equation.

I am not talking about leadership. Only you are. And without a solid leadership, 56,000 pilots are going to magically fall in line?

Your hyprocrisy is you expect everyone else to behave they way you think they should but you refuse to accept any responsibility. New ALPA motto: Instilling Lowered Expectations in the Next Generation of Pilots.

What responsibility does the membership have? As union members and Americans? I am talking about what you can control. Voting, participating, marching, picketing...But these are all things for the collective, not the individual. There is no instant gratification and immediate personal gain... that is why you won't do it.You reject democracy, The US constitution, freedom or speech and self government. You disdain these things.
Because I think ALPA is a joke? Laughable!

Its not me. All I am saying is vote, picket, attend meetings, fight for the profession. But you don't agree with that. That is beneath you. And all I'm saying is the membership of carrier A is not responsible for the membership of carrier B. Period.

This is all about your personal gain and what is in it for you. Wow...this is wonderful ALPA propoganda. You are nothing but a walking billboard for them! You are the collective wet dream of the boy's in Herndon!

You want your gains at a fellow pilots expense. Under ALPA, it's happening all the time.

You don't want to give you want to take. Yes...just call me Mr. Grinch!:laugh:

You M.O. is me me me, not what is best for the profession. If you say so, don't you have some strongly worded letters to go write on behalf of ALPA?

No MCF, no support. Everyone regresses and losses ground. Sure its easier to defend smaller ground, but it is also very limiting. Don't leave ALPA or the sky will fall !!! Isn't anyone listening?!

Do you want to be the 50 United States or cuba? Your in house union dream is nothing but a group of little Cuba islands...

In house unions do not strike. Same goes for ALPA. ALPA as an entity in and of itself has too much to risk. Go TEAMSTERS then.

They can't afford it. They take what management gives them. Meanwhile ALPA is busy taking it back

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

They did nothing until it was too late. Not sure how much creditbility you'll get championing USAPA. Do you support thier efforts to reneg on binding arbitration? I don't have a dog in that fight, they are just one example of the membership NOT being lazy or apathetic.

Only motivated by greed. Not collective intrest.

The impact on all of us for what USAPA has done will be felt... that is if you can think on a collective level. Some might interpret that as finger pointing...they're not responsible for what happens to your company, and Your company is not responsible for theirs.

Hence the whole problem... only caring about onesself....

So is it the free market of ALPA? It's deregulation, and ALPA doesn't fit into that equation.

You've got all the problems but no answers....

I am not talking about leadership. Only you are. And without a solid leadership, 56,000 pilots are going to magically fall in line?

You'd think Captains and Captains to be (FOs), leaders in line flying, could be leaders when it comes to thier careers...

They can lead a crew when it comes flying a jet across the country but it when it comes to being professional leaders and manager of thier own career then turn into cry babies and become irresponsible.

In addition, they are a poor excuse for Americans. Custodians of democracy they are not.

Your hyprocrisy is you expect everyone else to behave they way you think they should but you refuse to accept any responsibility. New ALPA motto: Instilling Lowered Expectations in the Next Generation of Pilots.

New Member Motto: Expect ALPA to be something it is not. Never reading CB&L, Admin manual, voting, picketing, meeting attendance. Poor Americans.

What responsibility does the membership have? As union members and Americans?I am talking about what you can control. Voting, participating, marching, picketing...But these are all things for the collective, not the individual. There is no instant gratification and immediate personal gain... that is why you won't do it.You reject democracy, The US constitution, freedom or speech and self government. You disdain these things.
Because I think ALPA is a joke? Laughable!

What a poor excuse for being a pathetic American. Typical of those who blame others.

Its not me. All I am saying is vote, picket, attend meetings, fight for the profession. But you don't agree with that. That is beneath you. And all I'm saying is the membership of carrier A is not responsible for the membership of carrier B. Period.

Nice attitude. At least you are understanding and learning about yourself...

This is all about your personal gain and what is in it for you. Wow...this is wonderful ALPA propoganda. You are nothing but a walking billboard for them! You are the collective wet dream of the boy's in Herndon!

ALPA like our gov't is in trouble and has problems... but I say get involved and fix it.. I say take ownership of careers and quit electing poor leaders.

You want your gains at a fellow pilots expense. Under ALPA, it's happening all the time.

So lets take ownership and fix it...

You don't want to give you want to take. Yes...just call me Mr. Grinch!:laugh:

As long as we understand...

You M.O. is me me me, not what is best for the profession. If you say so, don't you have some strongly worded letters to go write on behalf of ALPA?

You don't vote, don't speak for yourself, claim victim status... you sound like you'd enjoy living in China, Suadi Arabia or Cuba... at least your conscience won't bother you that you can't vote and speak freely.

No MCF, no support. Everyone regresses and losses ground. Sure its easier to defend smaller ground, but it is also very limiting. Don't leave ALPA or the sky will fall !!! Isn't anyone listening?!

Please provide critical analyis on the benifits of all of us going in house union.

Do you want to be the 50 United States or cuba? Your in house union dream is nothing but a group of little Cuba islands...

In house unions do not strike. Same goes for ALPA. ALPA as an entity in and of itself has too much to risk. Go TEAMSTERS then.

You like the UPS or FedEx contract better?

They can't afford it. They take what management gives them. Meanwhile ALPA is busy taking it back

5% LEC meeting attendance
33% LEC voter attendance
25% PAC participation
apathy


Does this sound like an educated and informed membership?



Can the membership be doing better?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Only motivated by greed. It is what it is: Human Nature. It's the same reason your ALPA national officers solicited their repsective positions. NOT your best interest Rez. How does that make you feel?

Hence the whole problem... only caring about onesself...OK Sally Struthers. When do you start your worldwide crusade against hunger?

You've got all the problems but no answers...Each group of airlines is intimate with it's own set of hurdles.

In addition, they are a poor excuse for Americans. Custodians of democracy they are not. And You have to fly with these guys?! Ughhh...the mere thought makes my stomach turn!

ALPA like our gov't is in trouble and has problems... but I say get involved and fix it.. I say take ownership of careers and quit electing poor leaders. Hey, I think all three of the candidates up for vote suck. How can we stop the elction to get new people up there?

So lets take ownership and fix it...Has already been started in some areas. AAA/AWA and hopefully CAL is serious about it.


You don't vote, don't speak for yourself, claim victim status... you sound like you'd enjoy living in China, Suadi Arabia or Cuba... at least your conscience won't bother you that you can't vote and speak freely. Me personally? Well, this is all news to me!

Please provide critical analyis on the benifits of all of us going in house union. APA, SWAPA, AIRTRAN

You like the UPS or FedEx contract better? Better is a subjective term. Both are succesful contracts, in my opinion.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Only motivated by greed. It is what it is: Human Nature. It's the same reason your ALPA national officers solicited their repsective positions. NOT your best interest Rez. How does that make you feel?

So why do you expect them to be something they are not.. something you are not....

In addition, you didn't vote for the guys that voted for them... you are as far removed from the process as you can be....

Hence the whole problem... only caring about onesself...OK Sally Struthers. When do you start your worldwide crusade against hunger?

Don't care are about that.... all I care about is my fellow pilot and the profession. Do you?

You've got all the problems but no answers...Each group of airlines is intimate with it's own set of hurdles.

However, if we can try something new, a little different... looking out for ourselves and the other guy... what a concept... shared concern.

In addition, they are a poor excuse for Americans. Custodians of democracy they are not. And You have to fly with these guys?! Ughhh...the mere thought makes my stomach turn!

Then the thought of you having to fly with yourself should make your stomach turn too....

ALPA like our gov't is in trouble and has problems... but I say get involved and fix it.. I say take ownership of careers and quit electing poor leaders. Hey, I think all three of the candidates up for vote suck. How can we stop the elction to get new people up there?

Why not do what you do best and boycott the election...

New people... how about yourself? Too challenging for self rule? The mere thought of taking responsibility for yourself must be fearful... it is way to easy just to hand over responsibility to others then play the blame game and victim...

So lets take ownership and fix it...Has already been started in some areas. AAA/AWA and hopefully CAL is serious about it.

You like USAPA...

You don't vote, don't speak for yourself, claim victim status... you sound like you'd enjoy living in China, Suadi Arabia or Cuba... at least your conscience won't bother you that you can't vote and speak freely. Me personally? Well, this is all news to me!

You are just now begining to realize that you are a failure when it comes to being a US citizen, using free will and democracy?

Please provide critical analyis on the benifits of all of us going in house union. APA, SWAPA, AIRTRAN

APA- 45MM fine. Sick out has caused more problems for all of us than we can quantify.

SWAPA- luxury of a pro employee management.

FL- you're kidding right... these guys have about as much leverage as a chopstick wedged between to cinder blocks....

You like the UPS or FedEx contract better? Better is a subjective term. Both are succesful contracts, in my opinion.

IOW... you have no concept about what I am talking about....



YAWN

 

[CopilotDoug]

So why do you expect them to be something they are not...ALPA national does not have the best interests of the pilots in mind.


Don't care are about that.... all I care about is my fellow pilot and the profession. Do you? My Company? Yes.

However, if we can try something new, a little different... looking out for ourselves and the other guy... what a concept... shared concern. You know what they say about "ifs" and "buts"...

New people... how about yourself? Too challenging for self rule? The mere thought of taking responsibility for yourself must be fearful... it is way to easy just to hand over responsibility to others then play the blame game and victim...Almost...I don't meet one of the requirements for President.

You like USAPA...I'm indifferent. But I'd like to see the two sides hash out their issues so they can succeed as a pilot group and as an airline.

By the way, Netjets is looking at voting the Teamsters out too, in favor of inhouse representation.

APA- 45MM fine. Sick out has caused more problems for all of us than we can quantify. Don't forget the part about the major contract concessions post 9/11 under ALPA guidance, destroying pensions and retirements.

SWAPA- luxury of a pro employee management.So you should be asking yourself: How can we be more like SWAPA?

FL- you're kidding right... these guys have about as much leverage as a chopstick wedged between to cinder blocks...

IOW... you have no concept about what I am talking about. Nope, Understand 100%, both are fantastic contracts. Would you not work at UPS if given the opportunity right now?

Aside from your attempt at Character Assasination (Which has been wrong about 98% of the time so far, but who's perfect?)...

Your philosophy of every pilot looking out for eachother works only in the books. Are pilots going to do this anytime soon? No. Why? Who cares! There's a BOATLOAD of reasons hired every month. Will they continue to infight under the ALPA banner? You betcha.

So while you're dutifully down in the holds of the ALPA ship trying to patch the leaky hull, new leaks are springing all over the place. Hope you brought a sack lunch because you're going to be down there a while.

Time to buy a new boat, brother.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Double Post

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So why do you expect them to be something they are not...ALPA national does not have the best interests of the pilots in mind.

Pilots don't have thier best interests. They don't vote, particapte, speak up, communicate....

Don't care are about that.... all I care about is my fellow pilot and the profession. Do you? My Company? Yes.

Did you vote in your last LEC election? I say no. Hows that draft resolution coming to slash compensation at the 2008BOD?

However, if we can try something new, a little different... looking out for ourselves and the other guy... what a concept... shared concern. You know what they say about "ifs" and "buts"...

From the apathy crowd.... sure... but don't count on them...

New people... how about yourself? Too challenging for self rule? The mere thought of taking responsibility for yourself must be fearful... it is way to easy just to hand over responsibility to others then play the blame game and victim...Almost...I don't meet one of the requirements for President.

No but you do meet the requirement for citizen and member but you can't even be successful at that..

You like USAPA...I'm indifferent. But I'd like to see the two sides hash out their issues so they can succeed as a pilot group and as an airline.

By the way, Netjets is looking at voting the Teamsters out too, in favor of inhouse representation.

fractional pilots are not airline pilots..

APA- 45MM fine. Sick out has caused more problems for all of us than we can quantify. Don't forget the part about the major contract concessions post 9/11 under ALPA guidance, destroying pensions and retirements.

And all the ALPA pilots that voted for those concessions. Damm there is that voting thing again...

SWAPA- luxury of a pro employee management.So you should be asking yourself: How can we be more like SWAPA?

Typical irresponsbile and blame game union guy... its SWA mamangement not SWAPA...

FL- you're kidding right... these guys have about as much leverage as a chopstick wedged between to cinder blocks...
IOW... you have no concept about what I am talking about. Nope, Understand 100%, both are fantastic contracts. Would you not work at UPS if given the opportunity right now?

Aside from your attempt at Character Assasination (Which has been wrong about 98% of the time so far, but who's perfect?)...

Your philosophy of every pilot looking out for eachother works only in the books. Are pilots going to do this anytime soon? No. Why? Who cares! There's a BOATLOAD of reasons hired every month. Will they continue to infight under the ALPA banner? You betcha.

So while you're dutifully down in the holds of the ALPA ship trying to patch the leaky hull, new leaks are springing all over the place. Hope you brought a sack lunch because you're going to be down there a while.

Time to buy a new boat, brother.

So if this is how pilots are.... how you are.... then why do expect the leaders to be different?

I'd rather go down trying to help my fellow pilot then be a self serving tool like you...

 

[Freight Dog]

Hey Rez... check out this link and tell me what you think.

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...iew.aspx?itemid=14005&ModuleId=1316&Tabid=256


Whatcha think?

What other union on the face of this planet would do this?