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the unfathomable:regional crew attempted takeoff with one engine turning

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realmanofgenius said:
one more thing...I dedicate this thread to the jumpseater on colgan 3407...to have a coworker kill you just blows...also i realized this after a 15 hour flight...I didn't drink a beer, but I am so pissed because they guys tried to kill me this morning...I'm really pissed
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no arrivals into GSO from further than BQN in the past week...sorry dude, try again.
 
Notice how it's people with no ERJ time saying how outrageous this was. If you've flown the plane you know how easy it can be. The engines aren't part of the takeoff config check, and there are no EICAS messages associated with an engine being off. The takeoff config only checks for flaps, parking brake, spoilers, and trim. Yes, it was very poor airmanship and it is inexcusable, but to act like you were about to die is pretty far fetched. Even if the pilots had their heads too far up their asses to notice all the engine indications at 0, it's pretty obvious to any pilot once you apply power with only one engine running, the takeoff needs to be aborted.

I said the same thing when trans states did it a few months ago. Combine pressure to save fuel with fatigue, maybe rushing to make an EDCT to ORD, and a poorly designed eicas/to config setup, and it's definitely an issue. With 1000 ERJ's flying around in 121, I bet it happens at least once a month somewhere, probably more. And no, I haven't done it.
 
say again said:
Gotcha, I didn't mean what I said in a negative way.
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Cool, I didn't take it rudely, been on this board with ya for what, several YEARS now? :)

Actually, I'm stressed out, so it makes my posting style less laid back than usual. I can see how I might have come across a little aggressively, but that's the joys (and pitfalls) of an internet message board.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled FI mud slinging... ;)
 
I find it amazing how many people here consider the original poster an "a$$hole", etc., if this story is true. I'm sure you would all equally find him to be an "a$$hole", etc., if next week your wife or girlfriend was on the flight with the same Captain and FO after they crashed and killed everyone except for the original poster and you found out that he could have prevented the accident by informing the Feds a week prior. The "schedules" and "abuse" that all of you cry about are no excuse for professionalism and capability.
 
realmanofgenius said:
alright, just got to asia..let me address this...first;the insults: back at you. myself, another major airline pilot, and four witnesses observed it, heard #1 get started after we exited. the other pilot and myself both agreed this was most incompentent act any airline pilot coud ever do.

ask the families of those marvin winslow took away if they think I'm a DB...

to want to cover up this kind of incompetence,wrecklessness and dereliction of duty has no defense....

I have contacted a journalist....No reply...CNN would love it....it shows the regionals need to weed out the marginal pilots immediately. the public and congress, my wife and kids might disagree with you. shame on you for wanting to sweep an attempted takeoff on one engine under the rug...

these guys knew I meant it and if you think me and the other guy were walking off without addressing them, you're drunk, a fellow loser, or have a twisted view of what is ethically,professionally and morally right. two know crashes, comair and colgan, came from derelict acts and incompentence...sorry it ends now...I won't have the blood of passengers on my hands since I witnessed along with a fellow major aviator this unprecedented act of wreckless endangerment....there is a level when you say, I can't look the other way...today was it...

so, in sum, F U!!! also, I willl see the ASAP , I willl speak to their DO, company CEO and If I find out they lied.... their display of total incompentence makes me think..what happens when they do lose one, what happens in a rapid decom, dual hyd failure, dual elect, shoot single elect...basically they don't deserve to fly airliners...

since we're all still alive, I can say this...but because I had another guy to verify my thoughts,opinions, and reaction...we're in fulll agreement.

they better not lie on that ASAP since they both admitted it to me and another pilot..


i don't mind having dialog on this after all, I did not name any specifics subject to a complete inquiry... no free pass on this one...to excuse this which is what you detractors are doing can only suggest you don't think the guys at comair or colgan did anything wrong or wreckless.

what I'm for: ridding the low paid profession of loser pilots who denigrate the rest of us and kill people. by doing so, drive wages back up...and saving lives...after today, I have seen it all
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Enjoying your 15 minutes of fame? So the crew F'd up. They broke the chain. Disaster averted. I'm sure they'll get some sort of retraining. But at least they didn't try to continue, start it on the roll (it's happened), or cover it up. You sir are have no soap box to stand on. You are not perfect as are none of us. Before allowing the media it's feeding frenzy, which will do much more damage, maybe you should follow proper chanels.

And thats about as professional as I can be. Otherwise I'd love to kick you square in the fukcing nuts for being such a large bag of ******************************!
 
I'd love to hear the CVR on this one. I'm sure it's NOTHING like the Colgan BUF CVR, the (whoever it was) CRW CVR, or the Comair LEX CVR. BTW, yes I knew Jeff Clay. He still screwed up.
 
mckpickle said:
Enjoying your 15 minutes of fame? So the crew F'd up. They broke the chain. Disaster averted. I'm sure they'll get some sort of retraining. But at least they didn't try to continue, start it on the roll (it's happened), or cover it up. You sir are have no soap box to stand on. You are not perfect as are none of us. Before allowing the media it's feeding frenzy, which will do much more damage, maybe you should follow proper chanels.

And thats about as professional as I can be. Otherwise I'd love to kick you square in the fukcing nuts for being such a large bag of ******************************!
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SH!T.

Thats how you finish that. I think finding out who this individual is, who he works for would be good information. Then certain people may contact his employer about improper statements to the press as laid out in his FOM.

A picture, name and address, would also be useful the next time he needs a favor from a regional pilot. Sorry skygod, but the w&b just doesnt work this morning.

Oh what am i thinking. This gereatric fuc& is above the law. I am disgusted by people like this. But the best part of life is that people like this loser always get what's coming.
 
Long Time Gone said:
I find it amazing how many people here consider the original poster an "a$$hole", etc., if this story is true. I'm sure you would all equally find him to be an "a$$hole", etc., if next week your wife or girlfriend was on the flight with the same Captain and FO after they crashed and killed everyone except for the original poster and you found out that he could have prevented the accident by informing the Feds a week prior. The "schedules" and "abuse" that all of you cry about are no excuse for professionalism and capability.
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If what the OP said was true, he's and a$$hole for his actions of contacting the feds/media on this. Again, assuming he did what he said he did.

He could have very easily circumvented his a$$ hole factor by asking what the problem was when they got to ORD, and by not saying anything on an internet message board. THEN, getting in touch with the Pro Standards department of the airline he rode on, voice his concerns, and let it go from there. DON'T call the CEO, DON'T call the chief pilot, etc.

Since he chose an alternate course of action, that is what makes him and a$$hole. As well as, dare I say, and un professional pilot.
 
jdubya said:
What's inflammatory is the fact that there are large numbers of these type crews at the regionals. We all know it and it's a miracle more accidents have not happened. Interesting how we never heard these type stories a couple of decades ago, it's directly related to sjs syndrome. No one is perfect, but as with many things, there is a certain level of competence required...simple truth.
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This has NOTHING TO DO with SJS.

Like the level of competence of majors in suce unfathomable incidents such as:

CO in denver: Rudder vs Tiller
CO in EWR (I know, which time right): Landing on taxiway Z.
DAL in ATL: Landing on a taxiway.

These are a few from this year. Should I elaborate? Maybe include accidents where many people have been killed by VERY SENIOR major airline pilots with or without SJS. Oh i will anyway, AA in LIT, AA in Columbia, UA in Oregon. Are you telling me that they were incompetent and had SJS?

Mistakes happen, errors happen. They never rotated and aborted immediately. Has nothing to do with competence but was a mistake. You of all people should realize this.

Maybe skygod and you should take a minute and analyze what the Colgan crash really taught us. Workrules, duty times, compensation etc...

That is where this SHOULD be centered. Not realmanofgenius' ego.

Oh and btw mr professional realmanofgenius, do you think it is appropriate to have a user id that directly relates to the consumption of alcohol?
 
Where was the sanctimonious shouting from the OP when a major flew into a Colombian mountain, or when the major landed on a taxiway, or when the major overflew their destination because they were "distracted", or when the major...
 
What is the retraining for a crew that does this?

"So how many engines should you have running when you take off?"

"2"

"Ok...sounds good. We're done"
 
I am RALMAO at the name calling....as to the facts. there were six witnesses in the back. they included myself , and another 121 legacy pilot.
the one sane point raised was the correct one about these guys or others who just plain f up and people die. it ain't cool.

I would never have published any specifics to this case, but when it comes into the public domain, watch out... to the tool who thought I was flying to asia out of GSO direct...no comment..

This will come out ....in due time.... amazing the messenger gets shot at ..
some people can't fly airliners and have no business wearing epaulets..

some of you can't handle the truth...

retraining can't clearup this kind of cockpit breakdown by a captain...we're not talking about forgetting to turn on the lights.....he forgot to turn on engine #1....this is beyond bizarre...
 
realmanofgenius said:
I am RALMAO at the name calling....as to the facts. there were six witnesses in the back. they included myself , and another 121 legacy pilot.
the one sane point raised was the correct one about these guys or others who just plain f up and people die. it ain't cool.

I would never have published any specifics to this case, but when it comes into the public domain, watch out... to the tool who thought I was flying to asia out of GSO direct...no comment..

This will come out ....in due time.... amazing the messenger gets shot at ..
some people can't fly airliners and have no business wearing epaulets..

some of you can't handle the truth...

retraining can't clearup this kind of cockpit breakdown by a captain...we're not talking about forgetting to turn on the lights.....he forgot to turn on engine #1....this is beyond bizarre...
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Go away.

And why do you keep calling yourself a "legacy pilot"? Your a pilot, nothing more. Being a legacy pilot isn't as impressive as it used to be pal.

I say just watch your back.
 
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realmanofgenius said:
I am RALMAO at the name calling....as to the facts. there were six witnesses in the back. they included myself , and another 121 legacy pilot.
the one sane point raised was the correct one about these guys or others who just plain f up and people die. it ain't cool.

I would never have published any specifics to this case, but when it comes into the public domain, watch out... to the tool who thought I was flying to asia out of GSO direct...no comment..

This will come out ....in due time.... amazing the messenger gets shot at ..
some people can't fly airliners and have no business wearing epaulets..

some of you can't handle the truth...

retraining can't clearup this kind of cockpit breakdown by a captain...we're not talking about forgetting to turn on the lights.....he forgot to turn on engine #1....this is beyond bizarre...
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YOU just don't get it do you? Wait for all the facts and deal with it PROFESSIONALLY. Calling the media just hurts your own profession not just that of possibly these two folks.
 
nerjdriver said:
Go away.

And why do you keep calling yourself a "legacy pilot"? Your a pilot, nothing more. Being a legacy pilot isn't as impressive as it used to be pal.

I say just watch your back.
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Apparently legacy pilots don't make mistakes in his eyes, though I can name a few examples where the outcome wasn't so pretty.
 
actually, this is an event you can't look away from. This breach was a safety violation and a matter of air safety. quit trying to let these guys off the hook. marvin renslow sleeps, but his family will always suffer from the public record of his flying career and training. there is an event from which careers are never the same. this is one of them...too bad..
my associate , who i have referred to many times as the other aviator, and I agreed on all points.

what's wrong with hashing out this total F bomb cockpit nightmare on FI? I have not named any names for good reason. obviously he willl fill out an ASAP report. Had I and my associate not been there, he would have been home free...the moral is you don't who is in the back. so tighten up and do it right...maybe that is the good for all of..gut check ,put the i phone down, quit texting suzy rottencrotch, and get your head in the game....

BTW, turn on engine #1 you stupid SOB
 
good luck ever getting a free seat in the back.

what can i say....your name will be exposed soon enough...in fact i'd be surprised if it wasn't circulating on their website right now. AND...how many ride options do you get out of GSO....hmmm.

sounds like karma will take care of you. I don't even feel inclined to call you any names. Just happy trails.
 
realmanofgenius said:
actually, this is an event you can't look away from. This breach was a safety violation and a matter of air safety. quit trying to let these guys off the hook. marvin renslow sleeps, but his family will always suffer from the public record of his flying career and training. there is an event from which careers are never the same. this is one of them...too bad..
my associate , who i have referred to many times as the other aviator, and I agreed on all points.

what's wrong with hashing out this total F bomb cockpit nightmare on FI? I have not named any names for good reason. obviously he willl fill out an ASAP report. Had I and my associate not been there, he would have been home free...the moral is you don't who is in the back. so tighten up and do it right...maybe that is the good for all of..gut check ,put the i phone down, quit texting suzy rottencrotch, and get your head in the game....

BTW, turn on engine #1 you stupid SOB
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Again, you stupid SOB you do not getting it.
 
If this is flamebait, fine; call me a sucker.

If not, then the poster's reporting of it is not nearly the evil act it is being made out to be. While not a courageous gesture by any means, the reporting of such an event is very much in keeping within the system of checks and balances which any hazard prone endeavor such as aviation must employ.

If true, obviously the issue needs to be addressed. The crew should be brought in for interview, evaluation and appropriate training. Company procedures should be studied. The aircraft systems should be evaluated.

It's about saving lives, people.

Unfortunately, it's also about possibly ruining careers and further painting badly the reputation of us all.

But I submit to you all that perhaps your postings might read different if the story were about an errant scalpel welding surgeon or perhaps a bus driver who plowed into a van full of nuns while texting his girl.

All pilots are prone to errors. The only things which make us different are who, what, where and how.

I've been on enough jumpseats, major and regional, to know that we are all the same. Whether it's a major or regional is merely determined by timing, who you know, and determination. Some of the best pilots I've met can't make their trailer payments.

The majors have done a very good job of proving they are just as capable of hiring careless-error prone idiots. It's called "hiring human beings".

To argue otherwise is a waste of time. To blindly defend or attack the actions of this crew based solely on their level of employment is equally wasteful.

Hopefully the crew will ASAP this and something will be learned at the individual, company and industry levels.
 
realmanofgenius said:
retraining can't clearup this kind of cockpit breakdown by a captain...we're not talking about forgetting to turn on the lights.....he forgot to turn on engine #1....this is beyond bizarre...
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I disagree with you there.

Retraining either WILL solve the problem, or it will bring to light his/her deficiencies, which either get rectified or he/she will be sent down the road. Either way, problem solved. Hopefully by method A, and the rest of the company's pilots learn when the de-identified ASAP info comes out.

Like I said, not interested in crucifying anyone, but appropriate discipline and retraining certainly seems appropriate for a screwup of such insanely obvious proportions.
 
Lear70 said:
I disagree with you there.

Retraining either WILL solve the problem, or it will bring to light his/her deficiencies, which either get rectified or he/she will be sent down the road. Either way, problem solved. Hopefully by method A, and the rest of the company's pilots learn when the de-identified ASAP info comes out.

Like I said, not interested in crucifying anyone, but appropriate discipline and retraining certainly seems appropriate for a screwup of such insanely obvious proportions.
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I think this is one of those oh crap! screwups that once you do it, you will NEVER do it again.

Retraining would be a good option for discipline, but I doubt it's totally necessary.
 
Anyone who thinks that this, by itself, defines "regional pilots", is an idiot.

The person who made this mistake may (or may not) be a poor pilot. However, there are plenty of poor pilots at major/lcc airlines too.

<EDIT>
"Poor" was a bad choice of words. Most regional pilots and many major pilots are now "poor", at least in a financial sense. I should of said "inept".
 
This will be a two engine taxi and a single engine takeoff.

Regional airline fuel conservation profile and SOP. Relax. They would have started the second one after landing on taxi in.





eP.
 

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