The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[Snapshot]

Very well said tail, I'm still waiting for someone to come up with as thoughtful and balanced arguement for keeping 60 in place. So far all I'm hearing from those opposed to changing this discrimination are that they want to upgrade sooner and could care less about the thousands of pilots who have had a major wrench thrown into their retirement planning.

Every pilot of every age has had a major wrench thrown in our retirement planning. I'm sorry you had your money stolen, but changing the rules so you can replace it by stealing mine doesn't make you any better than them. A balanced playing field isn't a balanced enough argument?

Also, It's already stood up to age discrimination test:
In Professional Pilots Federation (PPF) v. FAA, 118 F.3d at 763 (D.C. Cir. 1997), the court held that, “nothing in the ADEA can plausibly be read to restrict the FAA from making age a criterion for employment when it acts in its capacity as the guarantor of public safety in the air…therefore, we conclude that the ADEA does not limit the authority of the FAA to prescribe a mandatory retirement age for pilots.”

 

[Stan]

There was time when certain people of color new their place was in the back of the bus. Things change for the better sometimes.

Are you for changing the rule to the arbitrary age of 65, or do you support having no mandatory retirement age?

Do you support bring back guys that have already retired but are still under 65?

 

[Spooky 1]

Dan,

How about we extend the retirement age for policemen and firemen too? Would you like a 60 year old fireman carrying you out of a burning building down a flight of stairs? It would be dangerous. Not all of them are out of shape or weak, but most probably are. Same with pilots. After 30 years or more of flying, the reflexes go, and so does the hearing. It is best for everyone that they leave and not have the responsibility of carrying around 200-250 people etc. If they want to fly corporate or for fun, they should go for it, since it would likely involve less lives in the back.

The only reason this whole deal is being brought up really is because some pilots are now having problems with their pensions. This is a good lesson for everyone, to create your own portfolio, instead of hoping a faulty promise will come through. Our "excuse" for wanting to upgrade faster is equal to your "excuse" about not planning for yourself outside of company promises. The rule is there for a reason, and the Supreme Court ruled against those Southwest pilots who sued for discrimination.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You know what General, I don't give a darn what age the guy or gal is as long as they are capable of doing the job, and that is just the point we are discussing. You might be an awsome specimen of an airline pilot, but in means nothing in the final argument. Either you can do it, or you can't. Financial planning or a lack of it, has nothing to do with one ability fly an airplane. Your opinion of yourself is way over inflated as it does not take anything as special as you think, to fly an airplane.

 

[Snapshot]

Just let me fly until the mandatory federal retirement age... agreed upon over 3 decades ago.
Tail

When you filter that last sentence down to just the Facts, you make my point perfectly.

The Mandatory Federal Retirement age, agreed upon over 3 decades ago is 60. Nobody is trying to lower it, so you're currently getting what you want.

 

[Uppercrust]

You know what General, I don't give a darn what age the guy or gal is as long as they are capable of doing the job, and that is just the point we are discussing. You might be an awsome specimen of an airline pilot, but in means nothing in the final argument. Either you can do it, or you can't. Financial planning or a lack of it, has nothing to do with one ability fly an airplane. Your opinion of yourself is way over inflated as it does not take anything as special as you think, to fly an airplane.

Doubtful.

 

[Phaedrus]

Just let me fly until the mandatory federal retirement age... not some arbitrary age agreed upon over 3 decades ago. It's age discrimination... black and white.

So is getting picked last for the pick-up basketball game. Not all discrimination is evil.

 

[FoxHunter]

The Mandatory Federal Retirement age, agreed upon over 3 decades ago is 60. Nobody is trying to lower it, so you're currently getting what you want.

Agreed by who? CR and Pete? American, Western, and I believe TWA tried to impose an age 60 retirement. ALPA fought it and won the grievance. American's CEO, C.R. Smith contacted his WW2 buddy that happened to be the first Administrator of the recently created FAA. General Quesada pushed through a new regulation that required FAR121 pilots to retire when they reached their 60th birthday. ALPA fought it for years, until around 1979 then reversed their position. Funny thing is that when it was imposed the pilot population was a lot less healthy. Smokers were the norm, heavy drinking was the norm, you would have to look far and wide to find a health club in a hotel. I recall when I was hired we had one guy that ran, considered very, very strange.

 

[CaptainMark]

FOXHUNTER..bottom line..its over..go put on your white shoes..hed down to florida and tell all your stories to people who care...we'll handle it from here...oh i forgot your exwife gets all your retirement..sorry..i guess you can be a wallmartgreeter!!!

 

[FoxHunter]

FOXHUNTER..bottom line..its over..go put on your white shoes..hed down to florida and tell all your stories to people who care...we'll handle it from here...oh i forgot your exwife gets all your retirement..sorry..i guess you can be a wallmartgreeter!!!

CaptainMark, you never could handle it.

 

[CaptainMark]

whatever

 

[CaptainMark]

This thread is over..later

 

[MemTrash]

George, I've flown (several years ago) with you and learned a lot from you. You were talking up the age 60 deal back then too. It just isn't going to happen for you. Too bad that a guy like you with so much to offer would end up in 3% group. Now if we are in the same place or run into each other somewhere in the world I can't hang out with you. You are dead weight to 97% of the guys you work with. Even if you are right in everything you say and ALPA is evil and the undoing of the airline industry there is no way I'd end my career being thought of by the crewforce as a scab. I hope the extra 1.5% pay is worth being left out and having your co workers hoping your last day will be soon. Too bad man I hope I don't end up bitter.
It's never too late to change. Hopefully you are not still making the FOs build little pink lines to the ground while you are flying downwind.

 

[Swaayze]

Swaayze, the good 'ol boy thing exists at every airline. Perhaps it's only the recipients of those checkride gifts who are not cognizant of it occurring on EVERY airline's property.

That's exactly my point.....it's not beneficial and could be exacerbated with a raising of the age limit.

 

[Swaayze]

Every Pilot that has ever voted Republican has done so against his economic best interest.

Wrong. Maybe against the interest of his union backed compensation.....

 

[Spooky 1]

That's exactly my point.....it's not beneficial and could be exacerbated with a raising of the age limit.

Not sure where Andy was coming from as I could find his original post, but if he is suggesting that there is a special dispensation during check rides at all of these airlines I think he is mistaken. Maybe the one he comes from, but I doubt that also. Certainly not the one I came from and if Andy knows otherwise he needs to step up. I am keenly aware that the issue of 60+ FE's might be the source of this idea, but I am looking for Capt. examples. Please no general statements, just facts without the names of course.