The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[The Prussian]

Snapshot...

What looks skinny on the age 60 rule is the retirement savings of lots of furloughed pilots. I suggest that you are going to need that extra five years...

 

[typhoonpilot]

I would love to have been able to retire at 60, heck even 55. I was well on my way there. Hired at USAir at the age of 24. Everything was lining up nicely, but then reality hit. Gulf War I, recession, recovery, corporte raiders, dot-com bubble burst, terrorist attacks, Gulf War II, stolen pension, and on, and on, and on...

The big one was the pension that was stolen out from under me. A pension with $1.7 Billion in assets taken away by the ineptitude and criminal conduct of USAirways management :uzi: as well as the greedy folks at the PBGC who saw the opportunity to get some much needed cash. A pension that would have easily surpassed $10,000/mo. at age 60. Gone :crying: . That is pretty hard to recover from. Before some moron says that you shold have invested in an IRA, well I did, as well as a 401K. That isn't enough to retire comfortably on at age 60 though. With the paltry contribution limits and lackluster performance of the stock market it just can't add up.

I'm 40 years old and I might be able to recover from the stolen pension and still retire at 60, but I need the option to continue working if need be. With college education costs soaring, medical costs soaring, and overall cost of living increasing if anyone thinks they can retire at age 60 without some serious assets they will be in for a rude surprise when their money runs out.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Stan]

You guys are making financial arguments about a safety issue. Just like the airlines do when they don't want to make a financial investment in a safety improvement. TCAS, Cargo Fire Protection, EPGWS

 

[G4G5]

You guys are making financial arguments about a safety issue. Just like the airlines do when they don't want to make a financial investment in a safety improvement. TCAS, Cargo Fire Protection, EPGWS

Do some research. Age 60 is only in place because of a financial decision. Show us documentation that proves age 60 is in place for safety. I can show you plenty of documentation on why Smith at AA didn't want older guys flying 707's and none of has to do with safety.

Talk to all of the nations around the globe that allow their pilots to fly beyond 60.

I can show you cases like the UAL 747 that lost the cargo door or a variety of others that show pilots at or near 60 are more then capable of flying safely.

It has everything to do with money.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well said Typhoon Pilot. Your story is, unfortunatly more and more becoming the norm in this industry. Seems to me the only arguement I've seen against repealing is either over 60 is too old physically (wrong) or FO's that want to hurry up and upgrade and don't care if thousands like youself find youself at 61 having to start a new career because of circumstances totally beyound your control.

 

[Swaayze]

Jeez, I can't even imagine waking up at 0300 and doing 12-14 hr days at the age of 65. It's unsafe for a 25 yo let alone a 65 yo (I know I'm generalizing health but you get my drift). Maybe with some humane Duty/Flt time limits and honest, fair PCs and line evals an increased age limit would be just as safe. No offense to you older guys (I'm an older guy to many airline pilots now too, pushin' 40), but let's face it there is often some degradation of skills/abilities/focus as we age. I'm probably not as sharp all the time as I once was - age brings more extraneous influences, worries, etc that can affect our performance and focus. That said, the age 60 rule does seem to me to be nothing more than age discrimination, but there's lots of that in government limits (driver's licenses, etc). Now is just a horrible time to raise the age, couldn't it be done during an upcycle to reduce the effect on junior pilots? Or maybe enacted only for pilots who have not yet received their commercial certificate (or a seniority #, or whatever), with a corresponding reduction in social security/medicare age for those of us already governmentally forced on the age 60 plan? Sorry, I should get my mind back in the box.....

God knows many of us will need the option to keep working, preferably near the top of an airline seniority list and payscale instead of at WM. I left a decent job to go to a major so I could retire at 55 with about $7000/mo in pension money, but now I'm right back where I started 10 years ago - bottom of a seniority list and not enough pay to contribute much to retirement. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[Spooky 1]

Jeez, I can't even imagine waking up at 0300 and doing 12-14 hr days at the age of 65. It's unsafe for a 25 yo let alone a 65 yo (I know I'm generalizing health but you get my drift). Maybe with some humane Duty/Flt time limits and honest, fair PCs and line evals an increased age limit would be just as safe. God knows many of us will need the option to keep working, preferably near the top of an airline seniority list and payscale instead of at WM.

Note to self: get off your butt and start investing in real estate already!!!

What airline are working for that has unfair PC's and line checks? I want to be sure that I don't ride on it if that is really the case. Surely you jest.

 

[FoxHunter]

I happen to feel it is a safety issue, having flown with guys approaching retirement that no long had “it”. They were in the very small minority, however changing the rule to 65 or 67 there will be a bunch more.

There are numerous reasons though. Safety, Financial, or Congress shouldn't be overiding FAA rules. Or for our Republican friends, why are we letting Europe and the ICAO use congress to change a safety rule of this country. Use what you want just please write and encourage anyone you know to write also.

I have no doubt that some approaching age 60 are having some problems. You will find these individuals also had the same problems as they approached age 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55.

Congress has mandated changes to FARs in the past. Why do you think airlines were required to install TCAS?

 

[filejw]

I'm not a big fan of flying over sixty just cause I am lazy and don't want to be forced too.But on my last trip I had a 39 yr old try to land our wide body sideways after the previous leg trying to make the airport from about 12 miles out at 10000'.Trip before a 33 yr old F/E thought taking off with fuel pumps off would be OK.Having been a line and sim check guy for many yrs that losing skill thing is way overblown.

 

[Spooky 1]

I'm not a big fan of flying over sixty just cause I am lazy and don't want to be forced too.But on my last trip I had a 39 yr old try to land our wide body sideways after the previous leg trying to make the airport from about 12 miles out at 10000'.Trip before a 33 yr old F/E thought taking off with fuel pumps off would be OK.Having been a line and sim check guy for many yrs that losing skill thing is way overblown.

We have been down this road before regarding the age 60 issue vs. skill deterioration. Some do, some don't and just like you have spoken to, some never get it at any age. I have asked in several strings before this if anyone could point to an accident that was indictitve of age related problems. So far I have not seen any examples, but I would acknowledge that there may be some, I just have had them pointed out. In the mean time there have been numerous accidents where the crews were in an age bracket that certainly would have precluded anything ever happening if age alone was such an important factor.