The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[Dan Roman]

I'm not a big fan of flying over sixty just cause I am lazy and don't want to be forced too.But on my last trip I had a 39 yr old try to land our wide body sideways after the previous leg trying to make the airport from about 12 miles out at 10000'.Trip before a 33 yr old F/E thought taking off with fuel pumps off would be OK.Having been a line and sim check guy for many yrs that losing skill thing is way overblown.

Exactly, A 60 year old with years of experience more than makes up for any supposed physical degradation. A cocky younger pilot is more of a hazard than an older experienced one.

 

[vetrider]

Here we go again. Around and around and around and around and around and around. Again, around and around and around and around.

What about abortion rights and the right to life?

What about the death penalty, is it constitutional? Moral?

 

[Stan]

For those of you that argue 60 is an arbitrary age, so is age 65 of 67. What's the difference. In 5 years those that are approaching the new age limit, that are not financially set do to bad luck or bad planning, will be compaining again.

Most of you guys are smart enough and have enough skill to do something more productive than flying airplanes.

 

[Andy]

So far I have not seen any examples, but I would acknowledge that there may be some, I just have had them pointed out. In the mean time there have been numerous accidents where the crews were in an age bracket that certainly would have precluded anything ever happening if age alone was such an important factor.

I've posted two such accidents on this board. We've had this discussion before. Don't you remember? Is this selective memory on your part, or is this just further proof that your mental acuity deteriorates with age?
I suppose you also believe that people have the right to drive motor vehicles until the day that they die. Sure, there are some octagenarians who drive very well. But plenty of them are, IMHO, more dangerous than a 15 year old with a learner's permit.

 

[Spooky 1]

For those of you that argue 60 is an arbitrary age, so is age 65 of 67. What's the difference. In 5 years those that are approaching the new age limit, that are not financially set do to bad luck or bad planning, will be compaining again.

Most of you guys are smart enough and have enough skill to do something more productive than flying airplanes.

I can't think of anything that would pay me as much, with so much time off and some good times thrown in for good measure than what I am doing at 60+ right now.

 

[RAC396]

The best argument for increseing the retirement is the CVR transcript of the Pinnacle accident. "DUDE"

 

[ivauir]

For those who support the change - how do you feel about right of return for those already retired? The surrent rules doesn't include it and no one seems to support it. That tells me that this is about what is good for YOU. Those who scream about how unfair it is (the current rule) don't really care about what is fair, they just want what is best for them.
For the record I do think the rule is unfair, but any change needs to mitigate the damage THAT WILL BE DONE to the younger pilots' careers. Perhaps we let folks stay on and fly as FOs. That way those who really need the money can get it, and those who are just greedy will probably bail.

 

[CaptainMark]

waaaaa waaaaa...my airline trashed its pension...i am divorced 5 times....the stock market....the war...bottom line...afford the same benefit to upgrade as you were afforded to the junior pilots

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Get mad, talk bad, even hate others.

Doesn't matter. Age 60 will die. May only go to 62 but will likely to phase into age 65.

 

[typhoonpilot]

For those of you that argue 60 is an arbitrary age, so is age 65 of 67. What's the difference. In 5 years those that are approaching the new age limit, that are not financially set do to bad luck or bad planning, will be compaining again.

Most of you guys are smart enough and have enough skill to do something more productive than flying airplanes.

Two of the big differences are Social Security and Medicare, and at what age you can start taking benefits.

You second sentence also makes no sense. As I said previously, I'll be gone at 60 or sooner if it works out with this airline, but I would like to have the option to continue if it doesn't. George Bush, the wacko, could easily go postal on Iran or some other made up threat and there goes this job. Or maybe the bird flu scare turns out to be real and most worldwide travel comes to a screeching halt.

Fox Hunter said:

I have no doubt that some approaching age 60 are having some problems. You will find these individuals also had the same problems as they approached age 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55.

Nice to group everybody in one bunch, huh I generally have a lot of time for what you say on this board, but this statement is just too naive to let go without a comment. I was putting money into an IRA as soon as I could and, coincidentally, when everybody else was buying a new sportscar. Try spending years on furlough and see what that does to your finances. Some of us aren't so lucky as to be with one carrier for our whole careers, or at least most of it.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Spooky 1]

Here we go again. Around and around and around and around and around and around. Again, around and around and around and around.

What about abortion rights and the right to life?

What about the death penalty, is it constitutional? Moral?

Tell you what. The next time you see anything referencing age 60 issues......don't click on it! Problem solved.

 

[Spooky 1]

I've posted two such accidents on this board. We've had this discussion before. Don't you remember? Is this selective memory on your part, or is this just further proof that your mental acuity deteriorates with age?
I suppose you also believe that people have the right to drive motor vehicles until the day that they die. Sure, there are some octagenarians who drive very well. But plenty of them are, IMHO, more dangerous than a 15 year old with a learner's permit.

Andy. My memory is just fine except when my wife is asking about something. Seems that I recall you jumped on the G3 accident in Houston. I do not recall every having seen the official report on it so I guess that is just another figment of your imagination that this was an age driven accident?

I bet your fun to fly with to?

 

[vetrider]

Tell you what. The next time you see anything referencing age 60 issues......don't click on it! Problem solved.

Man you are a Jenius with a capital J. Have fun on the merry go round, see ya.

 

[Snapshot]

Who says you have to stop working?

If you've set yourself up for a $10,000 a month retirement (WOW!) and it got yanked, working till your 130 won't bet it back.

If you had a full career and still don't have the house paid off and the kids through school by the time your sixty, then you either have too many ex-wives on the payroll, a serious drinking problem, or made some poor financial decisions earlier in life.

If you had poor luck/timing and got into the game late, and must keep working, then there are a thousand jobs that can pay the bills and don't require you to retire at 65. You've had at least a few years to plan for this, research, network, you have not been caught with your pants down. Call netjets, get that dream job flying guys on fishing trips on floats, contract work, whatever.

Someone made an excellent point earlier. I bet the tune would change in a hurry if guys forced to retire were allowed to come back and push some of the guys for changing the rule back to the Right Seat. It's the same thing. Fair is fair. All the bankruptcies and terrorism and raiders affected the young guys as well as the old. You lost pensions gained during the highest compensated years in the history of the industry. We will never make anything close to what used to be the standard. Trying to change the rules of the game as you exit is just plain poor form.

 

[FoxHunter]

Nice to group everybody in one bunch, huh I generally have a lot of time for what you say on this board, but this statement is just too naive to let go without a comment. I was putting money into an IRA as soon as I could and, coincidentally, when everybody else was buying a new sportscar. Try spending years on furlough and see what that does to your finances. Some of us aren't so lucky as to be with one carrier for our whole careers, or at least most of it.


Typhoonpilot

Sorry not to make myself clear. This small group of guys/gals with problems approaching age 60 are the same ones that have struggled all their career. You have known them, flown with them, I'm sure.

I admit to be lucky where I ended up due to two mergers. I also spent 8+ years on furlough working for various airlines around the USA and world.

 

[Spooky 1]

Man you are a Jenius with a capital J. Have fun on the merry go round, see ya.

Vetrider, why do you keep coming back to this string. Your starting to look like a dog sniffing his own butt and thinking, man this sh!t stinks.

 

[FNG320]

Very true. Pilots know when they are hired into a 121 carrier that retirement age is 60. Getting hired into an airline and growing with it is based on growth and attrition. Everytime I have a chance to vote to increase the age of retirement for the airlines, I vote no.

Of course, but they also "KNEW" they had a good defined benefits retirement plan..... Oh,... that was taken away. (or given away by ALPA) Hey, things change.

Good old ALPA, gives away your retirement and then doesn't want to let you work a few more years to try and recover and put away some $$$$. (oh by the way, at a ALPA approved lower pay scale)

If the conditions change, then the everything else if fair game to. If someone get 5 more years by going to 65, you get it to. Thus everyone still gets the same number of years in the left seat. You will just half to wait a little longer to get there. (is that violin music I hear).... Hey, if you want to stop flying at 60, go right ahead. Then your conscience will be clear. That way you and those that feel the same way will feel good about yourselves.

Just my opinion....

FNG

 

[vetrider]

Vetrider, why do you keep coming back to this string. Your starting to look like a dog sniffing his own butt and thinking, man this sh!t stinks.

I keep coming back for your wisdom.

 

[Spooky 1]

I keep coming back for your wisdom.

No you just like the smell of your own sh!t. Go away please there is nothing here for you to speak to. Shut down before your mommy comes home and finds out what your doing on her laptop.

PS. Erase the porn first.

 

[ivauir]

If the conditions change, then the everything else if fair game to. If someone get 5 more years by going to 65, you get it to. Thus everyone still gets the same number of years in the left seat.

This part just isn't true. Those currently in the left seat get all of the extra years in the left seat, FO's get their upgrade delayed so they only get some portion of this windfall in the left seat, and guys on the street get JACK.

SR65 is a windfall for those at the top of the senority pile. They get the benefit at everyone else's expense. What about the guys already forced to retire? Oh you don't wnat to let them back because YOUR senority would go backwards and stagnate? Now the violins are playing.