The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[FoxHunter]

George, I've flown (several years ago) with you and learned a lot from you. You were talking up the age 60 deal back then too. It just isn't going to happen for you. Too bad that a guy like you with so much to offer would end up in 3% group. Now if we are in the same place or run into each other somewhere in the world I can't hang out with you. You are dead weight to 97% of the guys you work with. Even if you are right in everything you say and ALPA is evil and the undoing of the airline industry there is no way I'd end my career being thought of by the crewforce as a scab. I hope the extra 1.5% pay is worth being left out and having your co workers hoping your last day will be soon. Too bad man I hope I don't end up bitter.
It's never too late to change. Hopefully you are not still making the FOs build little pink lines to the ground while you are flying downwind.

We all make choices. It was the pathetic ALPA education campaign on the age 60 issue, talk about unbalanced, that made me decide to withdraw my membership. Now if Congress passes the change I guess I would have to reconsider my membership status. I'm not angry or bitter towards anyone. Just can't support an organization that is working so hard against the interest of a large percentage of the crew force at FedEx. I still enjoy the people I work with, never bring up issues, and have no problem with eating alone. Yes, I still like those magenta lines.

 

[fr8doggie]

It was the pathetic ALPA education campaign on the age 60 issue, talk about unbalanced, that made me decide to withdraw my membership.

You're the one who is pathetic. You only think it was unbalanced because it didn't turn out how you wanted it to. Please do not ask to rejoin ALPA. We don't need people who take their ball and go home every time an issue doesn't go their way. Dissenting opinions are great. Find some like minded people and get things changed. You just say "Wah, wah wah, ALPA won't back changing the age 60 rule. I quit!" PATHETIC!!

The majority (large in my opinion) of FedEx pilots does not want age 60 to change. Prove that is not true.

 

[FoxHunter]

You're the one who is pathetic. You only think it was unbalanced because it didn't turn out how you wanted it to. Please do not ask to rejoin ALPA. We don't need people who take their ball and go home every time an issue doesn't go their way. Dissenting opinions are great. Find some like minded people and get things changed. You just say "Wah, wah wah, ALPA won't back changing the age 60 rule. I quit!" PATHETIC!!

The majority (large in my opinion) of FedEx pilots does not want age 60 to change. Prove that is not true.

The campaign had all the balance that you would expect if WAL-MART management conducted a union drive. No, I quit before the outcome. In any case any poll can result can be slanted by the way the question is asked. One third of the FedEx pilots were over age 50 last year. I've found that 90% of those I asked about flying past age 60 would if they had a chance. Not the PC answer in the crew room. Enjoy the rest of the evening, I will.

 

[Hamburger]

Wrong. Maybe against the interest of his union backed compensation.....

You're right, I should have said his PROFESSION and his FELLOW PILOTS best interests. I guess I wasn't talking about the independently wealthy guys who do the job as a hobby.

 

[seefive]

Fox,

It doesn't matter how many people you ask at FedEx about flying past 60. We voted on the issue and the results were plain. If anything, they were fixed the other direction by not allowing probation guys to vote. If the vote turned out the other way, I wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have quit. Sorry to say this, but you're just flat out selfish.

 

[CaptainMark]

Selfish is right..Foxhunter benefitted from the age 60 rule for his upgrade..even if it was 80 yrs ago..now he wants to screw the younger guys and delay their upgrade while penalizing pilots who want to retire at 60 with possible penalties..noone talks to him anyway...i could understand his view if he was at an airline that trashed their retirement...but the only reason he wants to keep flying is that the longer he flies the longer the ex does not get his retirement $...SELFISH IS RIGHT

 

[Andy]

...but the only reason he wants to keep flying is that the longer he flies the longer the ex does not get his retirement

We had over 60 FEs at United that did it for that reason.
Doesn't FedEx still have some aircraft with FEs? Can't he go back to the FE seat?

 

[CaptainMark]

Yes...dc-10 and 72s..but he has ego problems as well...

 

[Saabslime]

I don't know what ya'll are getting so upset about. Let's say this dog does pass in congress. The way the FAA moves, by the time they figure out what kind of medical qualifications they want someone to have to fly past 60, we'll all be sipping Jim Beam in our rocking chairs anyway.

 

[Andy]

Yes...dc-10 and 72s..but he has ego problems as well...

That's what I figured on both counts.
Sounds like he could be as rich as Bill Gates, as muscular as Aaahnold S, married to Morgan Fairchild (gawd, I loved Jon Lovitz's SNL skit), have the nicest house in the world, and still be unhappy. What a miserable way to go through life.

 

[FoxHunter]

Fox,

It doesn't matter how many people you ask at FedEx about flying past 60. We voted on the issue and the results were plain. If anything, they were fixed the other direction by not allowing probation guys to vote. If the vote turned out the other way, I wouldn't have liked it, but I wouldn't have quit. Sorry to say this, but you're just flat out selfish.

There was never a vote, just a poll. Big Difference.

 

[FoxHunter]

Selfish is right..Foxhunter benefitted from the age 60 rule for his upgrade..even if it was 80 yrs ago..now he wants to screw the younger guys and delay their upgrade while penalizing pilots who want to retire at 60 with possible penalties..noone talks to him anyway...i could understand his view if he was at an airline that trashed their retirement...but the only reason he wants to keep flying is that the longer he flies the longer the ex does not get his retirement $...SELFISH IS RIGHT

Selfish??? Looks like the younger guys are the selfish ones. Just let me make up my furlough time. Nah, I really don't want to work to age 68.

 

[CaptainMark]

Selfish??? Looks like the younger guys are the selfish ones. Just let me make up my furlough time. Nah, I really don't want to work to age 68.

i am already a widebody captain...are you saying i'm selfish because i would like to have junior guys to be afforded the chance to upgrade like you and me were? that's not selfish..i want to retire early anyway...seriously though..it seems like the choice depends on ones situation..bottom line is...WHATEVER!...we'll vote and continue to vote..and i'm sure there will be an increase in the retirement age over the rest of my career...

 

[seefive]

Yeah a poll doesn't count. Grow up!

 

[MECH]

FOXHUNTER

Your informal poll actually backs up the data collected by the wilson polling center. The numbers were split with younger pilots supporting the age 60 rule and older pilots wanting it changed.

But ALPA repersents all pilots and when the totals were added up almost 60% of ALPA pilots wanted to keep the age 60 limit. The majority rules. It is no different then the presidential election.

 

[pilotyip]

Then all of the ALPA pilots should put age 60 retirement in their contracts, and let the rest of world make their own choices

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Your bickering arguments have grown tedious..... Now's the time on Sprockets when we DANCE!

 

[Purpledog]

But ALPA repersents all pilots and when the totals were added up almost 60% of ALPA pilots wanted to keep the age 60 limit. The majority rules. It is no different then the presidential election.

We still one eventhough they excluded 10% of the pilot group, probationary members & furloughees from voting in the poll. How can anyone say that it was slanted towards the status quo side. If they let those vote it would have been even higher. If they were going to exclude that group they should have excluded everyone over 50 as well.

 

[b757driver]

I have 20 years left and I support the repeal of this rediculous rule. From what I have read, there is no basis for it other than airline execs back in the 50's or 60's that wanted to lop off the senior folks. Yes, it may delay my upgrade a bit, but guess what, it's not all about me! Give people the option to work past 60. From senior pilots I have spoke with, most say they would still probably retire at 60, some said they might stay to 62 and that's about it.

While every pilot has known that the retirement age is 60, many have gone through several furloughs, family emergencies or things outside of their control that take their plan for life and turn it upside down. If you want to retire at 60 then go, but give others who may not be as fortunate as you the option.

Wow, what a sensible suggestion! Are you sure you are on the correct thread, nay board?? You are actually suggesting that we should not all have a herd mentality and it's not about you? Wow, I never knew that freedom of choice existed or that bad things happen to good people.

Change is always hard to take but some are better at it than others - because they have had more experience at it!!

 

[pilotyip]

B757drvr, a nice touch of reality to a pilot me centric board.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Is there a difference between telling people they can't be a pilot because they're too old, or because they're black, or female? No. It's all discrimination.

Oh, in case you think it's a safety issue? The FAA has done a number of studies. NONE has shown that older pilots are inherently unsafe. In fact, the only conclusive studies have shown that the over age 60 pilots are safer than the ones under 60.

Cliff
GRB

PS-When the FAA/AA made the age 60 rule, they didn't have any scientific information to help make an age cutoff, they just pulled the number out of their a$$. That's why, even today, it still stinks of discrimination.

 

[Phaedrus]

Is there a difference between telling people they can't be a pilot because they're too old, or because they're black, or female? No. It's all discrimination.

Just plain wrong. Again, a believer that discrimination is a 4-letter word. Too tired to go into it...must...drink...beer.

 

[Clyde]

Personally I wish they would lower it. Make it 55, I would love to retire early without taking a penalty. I have to stick it out 5 extra years just so I don't take it in the shorts in retirement.

 

[The Prussian]

I have to stick it out 5 extra years just so I don't take it in the shorts in retirement.

Clyde....and what's your reasoning???

 

[GuppyWN]

You have to be 16 to get a drivers license. 23 for an ATP. 18 to vote. 35 to be president. Is that discrimination as well?

Gup

 

[scoreboard]

No, those are experience minimums. It's not like at 60 you have to much experience.

 

[sandman2122]

Then why does the "Age 60 proposed ammendment" direct at least one of the pilot's be less than 60?

Obviously not a safety issue ------- riiiiiiiiight.

 

[The Prussian]

Then why does the "Age 60 proposed ammendment" direct at least one of the pilot's be less than 60?

Obviously not a safety issue ------- riiiiiiiiight.

I didn't hear safety mentioned anywhere...just that ICAO did it that way.

 

[Saabslime]

No, those are experience minimums. It's not like at 60 you have to much experience.

No, you don't have too much experience but you're cognative ability to draw upon that experience starts to diminish. I don't hear the air traffic controllers whining about being forced out early but I guess some pilots feel entitled to make up the rules as they see fit for their own personal benefit.

 

[scoreboard]

No, you don't have too much experience but you're cognative ability to draw upon that experience starts to diminish. I don't hear the air traffic controllers whining about being forced out early but I guess some pilots feel entitled to make up the rules as they see fit for their own personal benefit.

I hear ya, I was responding to the minimum question above. Maximums for brain ability (can only spell cognative if i cheat) probably would be a good idea, rather than Dr Almostdeadhimself trying to hear if you have a pulse

I'd love to take an early out, i'm with you there. But I don't think we as pilots make any rules, It'll be whatever ICAO/FAA agree on. Just rolling with the punches babe.