The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[pilotyip]

I feel it coming, put me back in that DC-9, if the union guys want to retire at 60 they can put it in their contract

 

[Flopgut]

This is an old thread, but I don't want to miss a chance to agree with Ivauir (because we disagree so much).

Its not that we should tolerate this proposed change because it only happens once. We should not tolerate this proposed change because it only works once. And to be completely correct, it only really works for a very small number of senior pilots. It is the "law of the land" so to speak. Changing it now is in very poor taste. We need to stick with what we have and drive pay and benefits up so we can get back to where quitting at 60 is once again a perk. Not long ago, on a similiar thread, I was accused of having a "scab" mentality for my thoughts on age 60. I pointed out that what was actually going on is a minority of pilots are trying to short circuit the fair and established progression of seniority outside the collective bargaining process uniquely to their benefit. Now that's a "scab" mentality. That guy didn't answer me back for some reason. If it has to change then lets make sure there is no age limit. And, lets make sure any pilot who is still alive (and wants to) comes back to the airline. I want 90 year olds flying airplanes ASAP! I want to see an electric cart wheel up to the gate with two geezers in uniform and be delivered to the flight deck on an aisle chair! Wouldn't that be great? Mostly, I would like to see these pilots come back and give the "age change" crowd the same "kick in the seeds" they want to give me. Oh I know it wouldn't be good for me, but I would still like to see the 55 year old 777 CA get tossed out of his seat by a 75 year old.

Age 65 is a cop out. It hurts this profession in the long run.

 

[ESS PWR]

This is an old thread, but I don't want to miss a chance to agree with Ivauir (because we disagree so much).

We need to stick with what we have and drive pay and benefits up so we can get back to where quitting at 60 is once again a perk. .

A while back I mentioned that perhaps this is an issue to be looked at when airlines are once again consistently profitable. If at some point in the near future pilots are once again able to obtain their old retirement plan assets, and even enhance it a bit, few will probably continue to advocate a change in retirement age rules, but it would likely be a quiet issue.

I also mentioned that age 60 or 65 is still inconsistent with our age discrimination laws, therefore any mandatory retirement age would be contitutionally wrong. Unfortunately, very few policies coming out of DC these days are driven by righteousness, but are rather economically driven. If the ATA heavily lobbies against any change in the rule due to economics, then the rule is likely to remain in place for some time to come regardless of morality and justice pertaining the issue.

 

[71KILO]

Old thread but I must say: The age 60 mandatory retirement is against the law! It's called age discrimination. You guys that are looking at this as an attrition or safety thing are hopelessly lost and very selfish. There will still be attrition and safety is improved!!! Do you honestly think that all age 60+ 121 pilots will be able to pass an FAA class 1? Do you think they will all be able to pass a checkride for that matter. This isn't the DMV for God sake. If you you must create a rule then have tighter medical standards for those over 60. Hell, even the DMV makes older folks take vision tests, and some states make them take a driving test. Why not the FAA? Look, pilots will retrire on their own (tired of the B.S.), or they won't be able to pass a physical, or checkride; which ever comes first. These legal mandatory retirments obviously create openings for new captains and FO new hires. I personally want to be an old pilot with a bag full of experience to use in a pinch. I'm still filling up my bag of expereince and anyone who says they have enough is a bold pilot not an old pilot, and we all know where that leads. There is an old saying that can be taken two ways: A pilot will one day walk to an airplane knowing it's his last flight or not knowing it is his last flight. One way supports the age 60 rule but the other way is a pilot makes the personal decision to retire whether due to the B.S., medical, or skills. Those against these bills are selve serving and scare me. Those voting con are the same people that will vote pro when they get to their late 50's with two allimony bills and five child support payments eating PB&Js in the crew lounge trying to impress future flight attendant wife #3. From now on I say anyone over 70 should be youthenized! People over 70 are useless to society and are cloggin up the streets of south Florida. We need attrition when it comes to senior discounts!!! Yikes... Stay healthy!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Mostly, I would like to see these pilots come back and give the "age change" crowd the same "kick in the seeds" they want to give me.

I've been supporting abolishing the Age 60 rule since I was a 22 year old F/O, and I know many F/O's who support it as well. When the two biggest reasons for keeping the rule are 1) It's all about ME and 2) It's always been done that way, then support for your side drops off dramatically. If those two criteria had been the litmus test in 1958, we wouldn't be having this conversation, as no Age 60 rule would exist.

 

[Flopgut]

I've been supporting abolishing the Age 60 rule since I was a 22 year old F/O, and I know many F/O's who support it as well. When the two biggest reasons for keeping the rule are 1) It's all about ME and 2) It's always been done that way, then support for your side drops off dramatically. If those two criteria had been the litmus test in 1958, we wouldn't be having this conversation, as no Age 60 rule would exist.

Remember that a majority of pilots have said no to a change.

Regarding your "reasons" 1) Its all about me, AND the pilot behind me, and the pilot behind them, and the pilot in front of you, and the pilot in front of them. Its about parity. I'm in line for a turn at whatever comes to me in this business. I want my fair share, no more, no less.

Whatever sort of motivation produced the retirement age in 1958 is irrelevant, really. It still would be some number. We would still be dealing with all the problems we have today and the age change crowd would still want a change to suit thier own selfish needs. That is why, if we increase the age now by say 5 years, in 5 years this same group will want it changed again. And there will be a precedent for them to use; You changed it once, change it again. We should not feed the greed.

 

[Phaedrus]

Flopgut: well said. This whole pseudo-righteous indignation about discrimination is comical. Fess up boys & girls, it's about the cash. Period.
Oh, as for the "selfish" and "greedy" tags for those who want to keep things the way they are (i.e. the way they were when they got into this gig), at least they aren't hiding behind the p.c. word of the decade.

 

[Purpledog]

As long as an astronaut physical for ALL pilots accompanies the change. Attrition would skyrocket and hopefully cut off the supply from the tap as well.

 

[3BCat]

To all opposed.

Given the choice, would you like to stop flying on your own terms or by government mandate?

The mandatory age for retirement is 60. Its the same for eveyone. You don't have a choice. If it gets raised or eliminated, so be it. It's still the same for everyone. If it is eliminated, the choice becomes yours, and it remains the same for everyone.

Attrition provides relatively few openings for airline pilots. When was the last time you heard an airline announcement for hiring that stated we plan to retire "X" number of pilots this year, and will hire the same? (I'd like to see it, too.)

Look at the airlines that are hiring today. They all have growth projections, and aircraft orders. Growth is the prime driver in pilot hiring and career opportunities for airline pilots.

It's all too convenient to blame the industry regulations for our career failures and shortcomings. If you really want it, go for it. If you don't give it a shot, you're either afraid to try, or you are afraid of change.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Flop-
With 11K hrs you must be a captain at a major, so how does changing the retirement age affect you? Unless the fickle finger of fate happened to point you to the door at some point in your career, either due to your fault or not. Suppose this had happened at age 55 and another 5 years could make a huge difference in your post-airline lifestyle.