The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[Phaedrus]

Given the choice, would you like to stop flying on your own terms or by government mandate?

A more appropriate question would be: Given the choice, would you like to keep the rules as are, or would you rather change them to the detriment of most and the benefit of some?
Look, if we were starting this whole issue from the beginning I'd agree with you. The reality is, we are not.
Your question is relevant only if we were just starting this whole pilot profession business.

 

[Klako]

Age 65 is a cop out. It hurts this profession in the long run.

The age 60 rule has been perpetuated by big union politics for too long but now the reality of the situation now must be considered and attitudes must be changed. Wake up people, the world is changing. If you think that future events will bring back retiring at age 60, then you are in for a rude awakening. The economic reality of the future is that most everyone, not just airline pilots, will have to work past age 67 just to survive. This may be the last chance that an obvious wrong can be corrected. True professional airline pilots are fighting for their careers, their future and their ability to earn a living in a chosen profession. Most pilots, like me, only have a 401K. If I were forced to retire at age 60, on my 401K plus a low paying job, I would be living the rest of my life in poverty with no menical coverage until MEDICARE at age 65. At the very least, most of us wish to work to the limits of the DBGC (age 65) and the Social Security fund distribution age.

The rule is age discrimination, pure and simple. If the record shows that more experienced pilots have a better safety record than do younger less experienced pilots (and it does), why should they be treated differently than other Americans?

It is becoming clear that as a result of recent actions by the ALPA and APA, the so-called legacy carriers like United, American, Northwest and Delta they are condemned to the death throws of extinction. Greed, ineptness and blindness to reality will also destroy the likes of the ALPA and APA. The old guard pioneers of the golden age of aviation should be raging mad in their graves at the miss deeds of today’s big union politics.

 

[Phaedrus]

Here we go again...

 

[Klako]

PROs & CONs Summary of 'Age 65' prepared by US Airwayspilot...gc

PROs
1.) 5 YR's additional "earned income, W-2."
2.) 5 YR's additional "company DCP contributions."
3.) 5 YR's additional "personal 401k contributions."
4.) 5 YR's additional "company medical plan."
5.) 5 YR's additional "company dental plan."
6.) 5 YR's additional "active employee pass benefit."
7.) 5 YR's additional "social security contribution-which should yeild a higher benefit."
8.) 5 YR's additional "company life insurance."
9.) 5 YR's additional "company ADD insurance."
10.) 5 YR's additional "personal contribution to IRA."
11.) 5 YR's additional "financially plan for a severely changed retirement picture."
12.) 5 YR's additional "investment management and market conditions."
13.) 5 YR's additional "to match more appropriately with the 100% PBGC benefit level of $43,000." If current legislation is "not" adopted by congress.
14.) The much more seamless way, Age 65, blends into normal American retirement. (Social Security, Medicare.)
15.) In no way does, Age 65, preclude an individual from retiring at an earlier age if still desired- (example- 61, 62, 63, 64.
CONs
1.) Chance of previously retired pilots being recalled.
2.) Chance of slower career progresstion and career expectations.
3.) Possible adverse or increased medical scrutiny.
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Source: http://www.apaad.org/

 

[3BCat]

A more appropriate question would be: Given the choice, would you like to keep the rules as are, or would you rather change them to the detriment of most and the benefit of some?
Look, if we were starting this whole issue from the beginning I'd agree with you. The reality is, we are not.
Your question is relevant only if we were just starting this whole pilot profession business.

You miss the point. The question that you need to consider is one of choice. Do you want to make your choices, or have them made for you? Either way, the rules are the same for everyone.

 

[Phaedrus]

3B: Patently false. The choice has already been made. So the original question itself is a non-sequitir.
Klako: Add to the list of cons the very real "chance" (funny euphemism; also funny how all the "pros" are without doubt) that a whole lot of folks who are out on the street right now won't get called back for a very long time.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop-
With 11K hrs you must be a captain at a major, so how does changing the retirement age affect you? Unless the fickle finger of fate happened to point you to the door at some point in your career, either due to your fault or not. Suppose this had happened at age 55 and another 5 years could make a huge difference in your post-airline lifestyle.

It is almost 12k now, and no, I'm still an FO (CAL). I'm not sure how long you have been following things on this board, but I have explained this before. My family has been through this, my father suddenly lost his airline job (airline tanked) in his early 50s, nearly wrecked our whole family. But we got our butts to work and got through it. I'm not going to say we are better off for it, I don't think we are, but I know what I'm talking about on the subject of how bad this business can get. It was a defining moment; very much a permanent before and after. Frankly, I can't believe I wasn't smarter and went into another line of work.

So, that sort of argument won't float for me. We picked ourselves up and these others can too. No one is saying that you can't fly past 60. You can fly FAR 91, fractional, FAR 135, pipeline, instruct, you name it. Plenty of opportunities. You just can't fly FAR 121. Of course none of that appeals to the "fat, dumb and happy" among us who just want to soak up an extra helping of being an airline captain.

 

[3BCat]

Phaedrus, My point exactly! Not your choice.

 

[Phaedrus]

3b: *sigh*

 

[3BCat]

3b: *sigh*

I wasn't expecting submission.

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.