The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[Flopgut]

phaedrus: you typical politician. The second part of that deffinition is: 2. To act on biasis of prejudice <accused of discrimination against the elderly> You picked the part that fit your arguement, but didn't give the whole story. Do you work at CNN? In the words of Neal Boortz: You suffer from wealth envy. I as a true libertarian say: Government stay out! Now if your union signs a contract that has age rules in it then so be it. I hope I don't work there. I don't expect Grandpa Moses and Father Time to occupy the left seat of a 777 until they take the 'ol dirt nap. Their time will come based on non-age rules. For those that say they should retire at 60 it is about jealousy and wealth envy not attrition. Discriminate on health, skills, or knowledge not age. So again I say prove to me it isn't gov't mandated age discrimination.

OK, take notes, cause this is how you gripe: I'm worried about the species. I'm worried about the craft. I want everyone to have the best chance at a good career as a pilot. I have seen all manner of good and bad in this business and this age change crap ain't good! For better or worse, the generation of pilots who are approaching retirement need to go. They are no longer equal to the task of leading this profession. If they linger around until 65 we are going to have to increase the age again because the business is still going to be screwed up if not gone entirely [the aforementioned is legacy related primarily]

Wealth envy? What are you talking about? You did not do anything demonstratively superior in your career to find yourself senior to another pilot. You just got hired first. Now you want relief from a rule that has benefitted you your entire career so you can deny another pilot what they have earned? I would call that wealth envy.

 

[pilotyip]

A reminder the age 60 thing was never about safety. It was about AAL eliminating the high paid senior pilots on the payroll in 1958. A done deal between two WWII buddies, C R Smith and Queseda (sp.?) ALPA fought for years to have it thrown out

 

[Phaedrus]

Irrelevant. At least in the sense that the reason we have the rule doesn't affect the situation at hand.

 

[Flopgut]

A reminder the age 60 thing was never about safety. It was about AAL eliminating the high paid senior pilots on the payroll in 1958. A done deal between two WWII buddies, C R Smith and Queseda (sp.?) ALPA fought for years to have it thrown out

OK, thanks for the re cap. A reminder to you, and others, if you were around 60 years old in 1958 you were born before the war. The first world war; that is synonomous with a long time ago! What are we talking about here, 50-100 pilots this rule hasn't pertained to? You age change people keep talking about the rule like it just ambushed you out of nowhere! Like you can harken back to the good ole days when the rule was not in effect. It's BS guys!

 

[Flopgut]

phaedrus: you typical politician. The second part of that deffinition is: 2. To act on biasis of prejudice <accused of discrimination against the elderly> You picked the part that fit your arguement, but didn't give the whole story. Do you work at CNN? In the words of Neal Boortz: You suffer from wealth envy. I as a true libertarian say: Government stay out! Now if your union signs a contract that has age rules in it then so be it. I hope I don't work there. I don't expect Grandpa Moses and Father Time to occupy the left seat of a 777 until they take the 'ol dirt nap. Their time will come based on non-age rules. For those that say they should retire at 60 it is about jealousy and wealth envy not attrition. Discriminate on health, skills, or knowledge not age. So again I say prove to me it isn't gov't mandated age discrimination.

This "wealth envy" thing really chaps me. As though you earned your position more uniquely than anyone else, before or after you. As though another less disciplined, less deservant mongrel wants to covet your hard earned gains. You get hired by a company and they place you on a list, thats how it works. That is how we all do it. It is not envy to want to assume the gains seniority progression has rightfully afforded you. If you get this changed it will be a far worse thing than envy.

 

[Phaedrus]

Flop: Chill, my brotha. 71K obviously heard this phrase bandied about by one of his radio heroes and hasn't given real considerable thought on how or even if it should apply in this situation. "Age discrimination!" "Wealth envy!" I'm kind of looking forward to the next catch phrase/stale cliche.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I think it's hilarious that F/O flopgut thinks that eliminating a discriminatory law will keep him out of the left seat, but he doesn't even bid it (assuming no other issues exist...) when he has the opportunity. He wants to reserve the option to upgrade while at the same time he wants to take the option of continuing to work from somebody else.

Oh, yeah, "it's not all about me"! HA! HA! HA! Right.

 

[Phaedrus]

A) 90% of the people who post on this have not read the entire thread.
B) 99% reflexively hear "discrimination" and panic that the p.c. police will raid their homes and confiscate their "It Takes A Village" book.
C) .001% would benefit from this change (of course it's embellishment to prove a point).
D) 100% should find something better to do.

 

[ivauir]

I think it's hilarious that F/O flopgut thinks that eliminating a discriminatory law will keep him out of the left seat, but he doesn't even bid it (assuming no other issues exist...) when he has the opportunity. He wants to reserve the option to upgrade while at the same time he wants to take the option of continuing to work from somebody else.

Oh, yeah, "it's not all about me"! HA! HA! HA! Right.

I think it is hilarious that those who want the rule change refuse to acknoledge the windfall the senior will gain and he stagnation the junior will endure. Then you carp self rigteously about discrimination, but you intend to do nothing for those who have already retired. "All about me" indeed. Get off of your high horse, you want this change for no reason than to make more money. Fine, but don't expect the majoriy to support the change unitll you find a fairer way to institude the change. And you can knock off the "holier than thou" anytime.

 

[Flopgut]

I think it's hilarious that F/O flopgut thinks that eliminating a discriminatory law will keep him out of the left seat, but he doesn't even bid it (assuming no other issues exist...) when he has the opportunity. He wants to reserve the option to upgrade while at the same time he wants to take the option of continuing to work from somebody else.

Oh, yeah, "it's not all about me"! HA! HA! HA! Right.

This will be a hard concept for you to grasp, but I'm concerned about more than my own needs. I want to perserve the profession as it is, as it always has been. I want the rule to stay the same. Please explain to me how that is taking something away? Moreover, the most important thing I'm saying that I wish would penetrate your brain is: no one is saying they can't work! They can work! They can get thier butt in gear and thier nose to the grind and find a job. It is no less than what they are asking many pilots to do who will be negatively affected by the proposed change.

I want a new group to move up to the policy level and help run things at the airline. It is pretty apparent things are not going well for legacy airlines. We need to stop doing things like we are just fullfilling a habit. A wholesale change in the seniority ranks would help a lot and we are close to it at CAL. And to be completely honest, if we could go back and keep the generation of pilots that preceed the current 50-60 year olds I would be more receptive. In the history of commercial aviation there has not been a group of airline pilots less deservant of a terrific windfall than the bunch we are getting ready to send to pasture.

Cute jab at my upgrade decision, you clearly have no idea how bad commuting to in Newark is.