The Skinny on the Age 60 Rule

[Clyde]

Sorry about the double post..

Apology accepted.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I don't want to fly airplanes any longer than I have too./quote]


Seems that maybe flying just isn't your bag.

Good point! But this is worse than fighting about the Wright Amendment.

Cargo pilots wanting to retire early, buy a beach house in the Carribean, kick back and live long, long lives....I wish you well.

Younger pilots wanting to get off furlough or upgrade sooner....I wish you well.

Pilots who love to fly wanting to stay at their job longer....I wish you well.

Folks trying to prove over 60 guys, as a whole, can't hack it....Good luck, you sound like DFW trying to convince the world the Wright Amendment is the eleventh commandment.


BTW, the retired military crowd is not of one mind on this issue. Not a homogenous group at all.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Also, and I apologize for not having a source, but I heard your life expectancy in retirement is longer if you retire 5 years ahead of time as opposed to going to 60.

Life expectantcy is really based on how well you manage stress, diet, your health and ( the big one here) genetics. Very little has to with being an airline pilot.

If your great-great grand-pa died at age 50 of, lets say, hardening of the arteries....then your grand-pa dies at age 52 of the same....and then your dad goes at age 54 of the same....I would say, compare your diets to theirs, change what you need to , but genetics are not on your side here.

Likewise, if your great-great grand-ma lived to be 95 ( as mine did) and then your great grand-ma died at 93, and your grand-ma is now 96, and your ma and pa still go out and walk a brisk 2+ miles every morning while in their 70's....well, I would have to say that your life expectancy is very good.

What do you do to manage that stress? If you do nothing, then you should expect that something bad will eventually happen to you. Ride a bike....buy a treadmill ( and use it !!!) do some gardening....whatever it takes.

If your stress is coming from flying in the most technologically advanced system in the world....with Auto-pilots, V-Nav, L-Nav, auto-throttles with auto land systems, and weather radars....then you shouldn't be here in the first place.....go sell insurance....those guys make good money too.

Dr. Tejas

 

[The Prussian]

but genetics are not on your side here.

Dr. Tejas...Let's not judge Clyde by the looks of his avatar...I'll bet he's actually a pretty healthy speciman!!

 

[Clyde]

Dr. Tejas...Let's not judge Clyde by the looks of his avatar...I'll bet he's actually a pretty healthy speciman!!

Hey, looks aren't everything!

Seriously, I just want to clear some air here. I don't hate flying, and I'm afraid that some have misinterpreted that from me. All I am saying is that although this can be a good career and be very rewarding, in the end it is still just a job.

And while I do enjoy what I do, I still would like the option to retire early. Some tend to think and believe that if a pilot wants to retire earlier than 60, then there must be something wrong with that person.

I figure a person can do one of two things: first, they can do nothing but complain, or two, they can refrain from complaining and be proactive and develop a way to make their lives much easier.

While I don't have many complaints about this career, I do choose to be proactive and set a goal. I live below my means, I save money, and I want to retire from this profession sooner than later. That is my goal.

 

[Spooky 1]

Hey, looks aren't everything!

Seriously, I just want to clear some air here. I don't hate flying, and I'm afraid that some have misinterpreted that from me. All I am saying is that although this can be a good career and be very rewarding, in the end it is still just a job.

And while I do enjoy what I do, I still would like the option to retire early. Some tend to think and believe that if a pilot wants to retire earlier than 60, then there must be something wrong with that person.

I figure a person can do one of two things: first, they can do nothing but complain, or two, they can refrain from complaining and be proactive and develop a way to make their lives much easier.

While I don't have many complaints about this career, I do choose to be proactive and set a goal. I live below my means, I save money, and I want to retire from this profession sooner than later. That is my goal.

Clyde, you can quit any day, any time with or without a retirement fund. No one is holding a gun to your head saying you have come to work today, next week or next year. I did it, so can you. Never looked back, no regrets.

 

[Clyde]

Clyde, you can quit any day, any time with or without a retirement fund. No one is holding a gun to your head saying you have come to work today, next week or next year. I did it, so can you. Never looked back, no regrets.

I don't necessarily want to quit, as much as just be able to retire early. The hang-up I have had recently is with people looking at someone like they have 3 eyeballs if they even hint that they want to retire even one day before their 60th birthday.

It's not a bad job, I have no complaints, and it's enjoyable at times. But, just like a lot of other pilots, I don't want to do it forever. I'm afraid that if the retirement age is raised above 60, it might be tougher to retire early and not take a hit.

 

[Spooky 1]

I don't necessarily want to quit, as much as just be able to retire early. The hang-up I have had recently is with people looking at someone like they have 3 eyeballs if they even hint that they want to retire even one day before their 60th birthday.

It's not a bad job, I have no complaints, and it's enjoyable at times. But, just like a lot of other pilots, I don't want to do it forever. I'm afraid that if the retirement age is raised above 60, it might be tougher to retire early and not take a hit.

Clyde, you look like you might be a UPS guy. With all the money you will make in the balance of your career, regardless if it ends at 55 or 65, but somewhere in there you will have the perfect time to pull the trigger assuming you are not already 53? Some pilots want to work beyond that magical age of 60 and I cannot fathom why you think your retirement will turn upside down because of this? It is going to be okay. The age is going to go up from 60. Don't know where to, but it will increase some at least. You will prepare for it and life will go on. At least the choice facing you is not the same as a UAL/ASAir/DAL, etc pilot at age 55 where he might not have any choice but to continue working in the field that he has chosen, for better or worse. Be thankful you have that choice and good luck in the rest of your career be it short or long but at least always safe!

 

[MK82Man]

Senator John McCain supports increasing age limit

I just received a letter dated 4 January 06 outlining Sen. John McCain’s position on S. 65.

I quote “During this Congress, the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation on which I serve approved S. 65, a bill to modify the Age 60 Rule…The bill is now pending on the Senate calendar awaiting consideration by the full Senate… I support changing the Age 60 Rule to permit older pilots to fly commercial aircraft. …. There has been little to no scientific evidence that pilots older than 60 are any less capable to fly than younger pilots. In fact the Aerospace Medical Association states that there is no medical support for the Age 60 Rule. ….In my view, the considerable flying experience of older pilots may better protect the safety and security of air travelers during emergency situations.”

For those of you against Age 60, you better get the letter writing campaign in high gear. Senator John McCain is one powerful dude. Where and when it comes off the Senate Floor for consideration by the full Senate is TBD, we’d still need to see what happens with HR. 65, and then the conference committee (assuming they both pass with differences) … but the issue is definitely alive.

 

[G4G5]

If McCain likes it you know that it's not good for aviation. That no good POS has never done anything pro aviation in his PR loving career

 

[b757driver]

Actually, it won't be the pilots who make this change. The ICAO is already going in that direction....our congress will follow suit. OK...OK...so maybe there are a couple of former airline guys in congress right now....but it won't be their vote that makes the difference. It won't be easy to justify having foreign carriers with pilots over age 60 flying in and out of the US, while our own pilots can't do the same. Try justifying that arguement.

A solution.....? How about when this becomes law, you negoitiate with your company, to maintain age 60 as the retirement age....let the other airlines negotiate with they want.....then it's contractual.....and you'll still have your age 60 upgrades, retirements, etc. Your own pilots will decide what they want. Its the democratic way.

Tejas

Hate to say it guys, but the foreign carriers are taking the lead here. Some of them have had the over 60 rule for several years! And yes, they do fly into/out of the US. It's just a matter of time now to catch up with the rest of the world. If you want to retire early - and can afford to - go ahead and good luck to you. Those that want to continue and are able, fine.
Also, there are plenty of carriers that have their own contractual 55 retirement as Tejas mentions, so if you really want to retire early that bad, go work at those carriers!
Maybe John McCain is doing something right for a change.............I know I lost a great job once because of how he voted and have been outsourced ever since. Again, people have different circumstances and needs. You really can't lump them all together with lame statements like you knew what the retirement age was like when you started! Even then, there were some differences, Not everybody has the crystal ball or Midas touch and bad things do happen to a lot of people. There are plenty of US pilots I know who are on their 5th or 6th employer because they keep going broke (US carriers that is!)
Freedom of choice. Isn't that what it's all about since there is no proof of anything else?

 

[CaptainMark]

so because people have had bad luck..6 ex wives..bad management..etc..i should have to fly to 65 to avoid penalties for leaving early and lose my B-fund...sounds wonderful!

 

[b757driver]

so because people have had bad luck..6 ex wives..bad management..etc..i should have to fly to 65 to avoid penalties for leaving early and lose my B-fund...sounds wonderful!

Hey Capatain Mark - you only read what you want to read!!!

If you bothered to read my note more carefully, you'd have seen that I said let those that want to retire early, do EXACTLY that! But don't force your rules on others.
As a FEDEX Captain, I take it that you are fat, dumb and happy (figuratively speaking, of course, I thought I'd spell that out also!) and have no financial worries whatsoever. You do not HAVE TO fly until you're 65. That should be an INDIVIDUAL choice, not an enforced one with no real basis! I see you're real worried about losing your B-fund. Welcome to the REAL world.....
This whole issue is about what it will or will not do for individuals, pure and simple. Isn't it about time that people put away that greed factor and had a system that was fair to all? Let them choose. What is so wrong with that?

 

[FoxHunter]

so because people have had bad luck..6 ex wives..bad management..etc..i should have to fly to 65 to avoid penalties for leaving early and lose my B-fund...sounds wonderful!

There is nothing that says that you will have to go to age 65. Age 60 can still be classified as the normal retirement age. We have plenty of guys today going back to the S/O seat to way past age 60. The last ALPA contract at Flying Tigers allowed a pilot to take early retirement at age 50, with no penalty, if he/she had 25 years service. The loss of the "B" plan is another "Red Herring" as the Brits would say. There are quite a few "B" type plans out there for people that are not pilots which have retire at age 60. My wife is a school teacher, has her normal teacher "A" type plan, has a 403b, and a 457 plan which is similar to a B plan. Your concerns come right from the ALPA education campaign on the age 60 issue. They are at best a outright distortion of fact, or at worse a simple lie.

 

[b757driver]

No B-plan? What B-plan? Some don't even have a job!

There is nothing that says that you will have to go to age 65. Age 60 can still be classified as the normal retirement age. We have plenty of guys today going back to the S/O seat to way past age 60. The last ALPA contract at Flying Tigers allowed a pilot to take early retirement at age 50, with no penalty, if he/she had 25 years service. The loss of the "B" plan is another "Red Herring" as the Brits would say. There are quite a few "B" type plans out there for people that are not pilots that have retire at age 60. My wife is a school teacher, has her normal teacher "A" type plan, has a 403b, and a 457 plan which is similar to a B plan. Your concerns come right from the ALPA education campaign on the age 60 issue. They are at best a outright distortion of fact, or at worse a simple lie.

Well said!!!
The truth is out and sometimes it hurts........