The RJDC is a cancer on the industry

[surplus1]

If this is true, why not file for formal legal recognition as single carrier status under the NMB?

I really hate to do this but I truly feel that both you and Braniff need to educate yourselves on what "single carrier status under the NMB" actually means. You obviously don't know.

The fact is we already have single carrier status as defined by the NMB. We are represented by the same collective bargaining agent, i.e., the ALPA. That is all that it means.

If it meant what you fellas seem to believe it does, we would have long since applied and won. The criteria established by the NMB for operational integration are minimal and have all been exceeded. It is only the politically motivated imagination of the ALPA Executive Council that concludes we are not operationally integrated. Their conclusion is as meaningless as your supposition.

Sorry, I don't mean to chastise you personally for your views and it is not my intent to offend you but like much of the rhetoric on this and other forums, the makers are more often uninformed, misinformed. illinformed or more simply, in left field asking who's on first.

Unfortunately, that is a primary factor in our inability to achieve constructive dialogue, let alone a settlement of the issues that divide us.

 

[surplus1]

Besides, if your qualifications were so godlike, why aren't you flying a UAL 747-400? THAT's the top of the world, airline-wise. But let me guess, you're going to save the world from the seat on a CL-65.
Braniff

That's really childish and I should ignore it. However, there is a simple reason why I am not flying a UAL 747-400. I don't work for United Airlines. I suspect you work for Delta, therefore it is unlikely that you will fly a 747-400 either.

By the way, I stopped comparing who's was bigger when I got out of high school. This sort of banter is beneath us both, so stop it.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Just a couple of quick points to clear up some misconceptions that seem to be floating around this board. It has been said that DALPA did, or does, not want to fly rjs. One poster even used the fact that ASA does not have many furloughed Delta guys applying as evidence of this. For the record, I will not apply to ASA because I will not commute to reserve for first year f/o pay at ASA. Been there, done that. However, that does not mean that I would not want to fly them for Delta.

Anyway, on to my points...

#1. Delta pilots have absolutely zero power to force management to buy a certain airplane, nor do we have any power to refuse any airplanes. Management can buy and operate any airplane they want, and we cannot do a thing about it...nor would we want to.

#2. Despite what has been stated on these boards, the Delta pilot group is not, nor have they ever been against flying rjs. Perhaps a few idiots have made stupid statements to the contrary, but that doesn't change the official stance of the Delta MEC. We want now the same thing that we always have, for Delta to abide by our contract. It is not our decision how they do that. I hope that they continue to grow the airline. However, there is only one legal way that they do that...Once they hit the block hour limit, further growth must be mainline. Management is attempting to break our contract on block hour restrictions, claiming "circumstances beyond their control" are preventing them from complying with our contract. We are grieving this, and I think that we will win. As far as I am concerned, the grievance should go something like this...

Arbitrator: Do you have control over who flies your airplanes?

Company: Yes.

Arbitrator: Do you have control over what airline gets your new airplanes?

Company: Yes.

Arbitrator: Then these circumstances are not beyond your control. You lose. Comply with the contract that you signed!


That is how I hope the grievance will go. Of course in real life there will be a lot more lawyertalk, but you get the jist! Hopefully the outcome is the same. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

 

[WIDGETBOY]

I love all these post about senior guys at the regional with there so called great pay and quailty of life and not wanting to go back to reserve.

1. reserve- if you commute weather at a major or regional it sucks but if you live at you base at some majors such as Delta it can be good with there 12 hour long call. Consider this my Dad also works for Delta and is a junior MD-88/90 CA at dfw and was on reserve all last year and only work 64 days last year and made 210K and lives over 2 hrs from dfw. I would say not to bad.

2. Pay- Before 9-11 I was going to be a DD-88/90 fo and in May of this year I was going to be on 2nd year pay. My pay was going to be a min. of 7600 a month or just over 91K a year on reserve. Again I would say not to bad.

3. Quailty of life- I was at eagle for 2 1/2 years and for most of it I was a ATR FO at DFW which had the best lines at eagle. Even when I left the ATR at #11 on the seniorty list my best line was not as good as my SRL line after 3 month on line Delta which was 3 on 7 off 3 on 6 off 5 on 4 off 3 on.

If you suport RJDC you may never have the chance to experince the life at a major which in most cases is better than any life at a regional.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think your lifestyle comparisons are valid.

If, however, you look at the Big Picture, and include the economy, the post 9/11 social and political environment, not to mention what was happening at the Majors before these changes during a robust economy, you will realize that there is a paradigm shift.

The result of this shift is the change in flying overall, from commercial to fractional and private, and from large to small jet.

The bottom line is the loss of much of what we know as Mainline flying. Southwest will be doing well in five years. US probably won't. Delta, AA, and United have a long, long,road ahead. This means that a great many of us won't be flying for a Major in our careers (we can't all fly for Southwest or some other large airframe carrier) so we will be manning the cockpits that WILL be flying: corporate, fractional, regional, and the like.

Very few of us, although we wish you Major pilots no ill will, have a realistic possibility of being damaged by this ALPA problem. It would be a tragedy indeed if a settlement can not be reached before a judge rules. As a Delta pilot, and a holder of what most of us think of as "The Dream Job", you should be "highly motivated" to get this thing done.

The rest of us, most of us, are interested bystanders where Delta is concerned. A better life for the RJ crew, on the other hand, will have a very large impact for most of us. That's the dog that I have in this fight.

 

[73GDog]

I regularly fly with Captains that are retired military, usually O-5, and once even an O-6. They are mostly fighter guys. Lots of masters degrees. They are all WELL qualified to fly for DAL or ANY other major.



Caveman,
I flew the RJ for ASA and have to say that the vast majority of Captains I flew with were not college educated. I regularly fly with Captains at Delta who have graduate degrees but never at ASA. Maybe things have changed at the regionals since I left.

 

[73GDog]

I think your lifestyle comparisons are valid.



The result of this shift is the change in flying overall, from to fractional and private, and from large to small jet


Timebuilder,
I have to disagree that the majority of flying will shift from large aircraft to small aircraft. Although it certainly looks that way today with everything that is going on with the RJ, we still have a very big problem facing our national air traffic system; a lack of concrete. An RJ takes up a slot same as a 777 and I believe certain airports like LaGuardia which accept RJs will at some point in time deny any aircraft with under say, 150 seats from landing. Certain airports need to maximize the number of passengers due to limited slots. I very well may be way off on this however; I believe the RJ will peak in the next couple of years and volume will be the answer to many problems ATC is facing. I believe management is using the RJ as a tool to cause damage to the piloting profession and realizes the RJ is not the answer to its problems.

 

[Braniff]

Hey ~~~~^~~~~ - if flying at your airline admittedly doesn't "pay the bills" why in hell do you want to allow that to fester through the industry?

I keep hearing about "...making $100,000..." flying an RJ. I'm not sure where you guys live, but $100,000 really isn't a lot of money after taxes in this profession.

Besides, $100,000 is FRIGGEN 3rd YEAR FO PAY! That's not much to brag about. Besides, my brother without a college degree almost makes that working for a cheese products company -- in PRODUCTION. True story! Wearing white smock and a hair net can pay pretty well to my suprise.

If it takes me 18 years to crack $100,000, I wouldn't run out and build a parade float about it.

Braniff

 

[TurboS7]

I have been told that pilot's only know how to destroy themselves and their jobs. After reading all of this RJDC insanity and see the way everyone goes for it I have to agree with that person. Unemployment went down this week at this rate the pilot unemployment is about to go way up.

 

[Braniff]

Surplus 1

You said, "That's really childish and I should ignore it. However, there is a simple reason why I am not flying a UAL 747-400. I don't work for United Airlines. I suspect you work for Delta, therefore it is unlikely that you will fly a 747-400 either. "

A ha!

So I should *sue* UAL for my inability to fly a 747-400. We'll call it the "Big Jet Defense Network".

But I'll settle for the low price of $100,000,000. And one of those CD's with "Rhapsody in Blue" on it so I can play it on the drive to work.

But if you want to fly the big jets, apply for an airline that FLIES the big jets.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when the judge says, "Well, did you bother APPLYING to mainline?" "Umm, no sir, I chose to ignore the biggest hiring swing in 20 years", "Case dismissed".

Braniff

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Timebuilder,

You may or may not be correct regarding the future use of rjs. But you are missing the point. You claim that mainline jobs age going to become more and more scarce. On that point, we agree...IF the rjdc is successful. Our scope clause is designed to foster the growth of mainline jobs, and to prevent management from replacing us with lower paid pilots. We are fighting very hard to ensure that what you predict does not occur, so you will have a mainline job opportunity when you are ready.

If the wave of the future is rjs, then great. But according to our contract, they must be flown by Delta pilots once our negotiated block hour limits are exceeded. Translation: more mainline positions for guys like you.

If you do consider Delta a "Dream Job", then you should be "highly motivated" to hope that we defeat the rjdc.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Timebuilder,

If the wave of the future is rjs, then great. But according to our contract, they must be flown by Delta pilots once our negotiated block hour limits are exceeded. Translation: more mainline positions for guys like you.

If you do consider Delta a "Dream Job", then you should be "highly motivated" to hope that we defeat the rjdc.

Delta is a dream job. I for one would HAPPILY fly an RJ on a mainline contract. In all honesty, I would fly a C-172 on a mianline contract, if it paid well and gave me 18 days off per month. When it comes to size of equipment, it matters very little to me. It is all about QOL, and time with my family. When I am 60, no one will remember or care how big my airplane was, only how good of a father I was and how well I was able to provide (money and time) for my family.

Regardless, the only way that will EVER happen is if mgt is precluded from farming out more than their contractual limits to cheaper subcontractors. To me, that means supporting mainline in their scope greivance, not helping management open the door to abrogation of scope via the RJDC.

In all fairness, I don't think that it the intent of the RJDC, I just fear that will be the result if they are sucessfull.

 

[Braniff]

Plus, the RJDC is short sighted.

What is happening to mainline WILL happen to CMR or ASA once they reach a certain size.

Management will realize that CMR or ASA has reached the point where they're controlling too much of the pie and voila! New DCI carrier.

This new DCI carrier will again load up on pilots dying to build turbine time to get hired at UAL or AMR and more than happy to fly for 1/2 of the money you're making (hence an RJ-70 captain being thrilled to fly for $100K/year while a 737-700 Captain makes DOUBLE that)

Since RJDC pissed on scope, there would be nothing in the world to stop management from shifting flying to the brand new DCI carrier.

It's happening now. What do you think Skywest is doing at DFW? Or ACJet at CVG? It bet you that if ACjet came to Delta and said, "Hey, we'll fly that route for 40% less", Delta would shift that route to ACjet with the speed of a third-grader chasing the ice cream truck.

In another 15 years, the old adage of "...son, back when I was new hire, a captain could afford to purchase a 'cadillac a month'" will be replaced by "...son, back when I was a new hire, a captain could afford to live outside of section-8 rent controlled government housing"

Braniff

 

[MetroSheriff]

Plus, the RJDC is short sighted.

What is happening to mainline WILL happen to CMR or ASA once they reach a certain size.

Management will realize that CMR or ASA has reached the point where they're controlling too much of the pie and voila! New DCI carrier.

This new DCI carrier will again load up on pilots dying to build turbine time to get hired at UAL or AMR and more than happy to

Since RJDC pissed on scope, there would be nothing in the world to stop management from shifting flying to the brand new DCI carrier.

It's happening now. What do you think Skywest is doing at DFW? Or ACJet at CVG? It bet you that if ACjet came to Delta and said, "Hey, we'll fly that route for 40% less", Delta would shift that route to ACjet with the speed of a third-grader chasing the ice cream truck.

Braniff

Talk about short sighted. With all the leverage DALPA has, mgt is trying to get around their contract, imagine the carnage when mgt decides that ASA/Comair operating costs Are too high. Skywest will be everywhere. With no union on the property, they are the perfect tool with which mgt can steamroll the W/O. With the leverage we have, we will be toast.

 

[RJFlyer]

FDJ:

One poster even used the fact that ASA does not have many furloughed Delta guys applying as evidence of this.

Actually, I was saying that they're not applying because they don't want to fly it for what the RJ can pay.

For the record, I will not apply to ASA because I will not commute to reserve for first year f/o pay at ASA. Been there, done that.

You have made my point exactly.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

RJ,

Actually, I did not make your point. I stated that I will not commute to reserve for first year pay at ASA. There are a couple of reasons for this.
1. I am not in my first year.
2. I do not work for ASA.

I think that you have bought into management's line that the rj is only profitable at slave wages. You even included in your post a line about what the rjs "can" pay. The fact is, we have not yet establised that figure, but I guarantee it is higher than what has been negotiated by those who are currently flying them.

For the record, I believe there is a big difference between what the rj "can" pay and what it is paying now.

 

[RJFlyer]

It's interesting how those of you who oppose the RJDC are so sure it will fail (meaning it has no merit), and are so sure the DALPA grievance will succeed (meaning it does), yet you all so vigorously argue against the RJDC. If it is so obviously wrong, why bother arguing? A judge will see that in a second (as paraphrased by FDJ) and throw the whole thing out, right?

I believe much of what the RJDC suit alleges does have merit (and so do you, though you won't admit it), and this is why it scares you all so much. Why would ALPA be in settlement talks, if the suit had no merit?

While the results of the suit could possibly have a negative impact on the industry, it could just as possibly have a positive impact. I didn't bring the suit, and I haven't contributed, so I will personally just sit back and see what happens. There is nothing you or I can do to change what will result - unless you happen to be one of the plaintiffs and decide out of the goodness of your heart to drop the suit altogether.

I am almost positive a settlement will be reached. It is in nobody's best interest to go before a judge. I can't imagine what form that settlement will take. But here's what I'd like to see:

ALPA recognizes that they've negotiated the Delta contract in bad faith, as it applies to ASA and Comair, and agree to renegotiate the scope clause to properly address the wholly-owned issue. Maybe include ASA/CMR block hours in the "Delta system" block hours and a new cap for non-Delta-owned carriers. This would also give DALPA a further incentive to push for onelist. I realize they have no power to merge the carriers, but they can certainly apply pressure. As for the money, I don't think the RJDC can currently prove they were monetarily harmed, as Delta is claiming force-majeure on the furlough and scope portions of the Delta pilots' contract, and DCI is expanding.

How will this scenario destroy scope? All it does is redefine it as it applies to wholly-owned (or alter-ego, if you prefer) airlines at Delta. It has nothing to do with the industry or the profession as a whole, and could certainly result in a lot of good for those involved.

Rather than allowing management to 'farm out' flying to the RJ operators (read ASA and Comair), there will be a limit to how many RJs they can deploy. As others have pointed out, there is only a finite amount of concrete available. And the numbers of travellers will continue to recover. Americans have VERY short memories, when it comes to their convenience (or lack thereof). This will in time (and sooner, rather than later, I think)lead to a need for more large, mainline aircraft. Don't think for a minute that just because ASA/CMR pilots are paid 1/5 of what Delta pilots are paid, that management would rather carry those 200 passengers on 4 RJs instead of 1 767.

Well, that's my take. I say, the glass is half full.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

RJ,

I appreciate your optimism, but I have a couple of points.

#1. It would be stupid of us not to take seriously a lawsuit which has this much potential to harm us all. That does not imply for a second that I believe it has merit. However, you never know what a judge will do. I don't think someone should win a judgement for spilling coffee on her crotch, either, but it happened. Not all successful lawsuits have merit.

#2. I don't mean to be rude, but you are smoking crack if you really believe that DALPA will ever agree to lift scope restrictions for ASA or CMR or anyone! Including Comasa in our block hour totals as you suggest is a pipedream. It will never happen without a judge mandating it, and we will appeal it into eternity. As far as settlements are concerned, we will leave ALPA way before ever agreeing to something like that. For the record, I believe the settlement offers have all come from the RJDC. I have seen none from ALPA. It appears that the rjdc is not as confident as they would have you believe, or they would never suggest settling out of court.

#3. You made a point that management would rather operate one full 767 than four rjs. I believe that you are incorrect, and I use Atlanta to Toronto as an example. Seven round trips a day on an rj. Could that support one 767? Of course. But management believes that travelers want choice in schedules. I don't disagree. I only have a problem with who is operating any of them over 35% of our block hours. Our contract, which the company signed, says it should be us.

 

[MetroSheriff]

It's interesting how those of you who oppose the RJDC are so sure it will fail (meaning it has no merit), and are so sure the DALPA grievance will succeed (meaning it does), yet you all so vigorously argue against the RJDC

While I oppose the RJDC, I have never ventured a guess as to the outcome. Given the proclivity of our justice system, the outcome is mere speculation. Success or failure rarely have meuch to do with merit.

As for the DALPA grievance, I think that is black and white. DAL signed a contract with their pilots. Period. To claim force majeur due to 9/11 is grave dancing, and ignores the slippery slope that ALL airlines financial situations were on prior to 9/11.

ALPA recognizes that they've negotiated the Delta contract in bad faith, as it applies to ASA and Comair, and agree to renegotiate the scope clause to properly address the wholly-owned issue. Maybe include ASA/CMR block hours in the "Delta system" block hours and a new cap for non-Delta-owned carriers. This would also give DALPA a further incentive to push for onelist. I realize they have no power to merge the carriers, but they can certainly apply pressure. As for the money, I don't think the RJDC can currently prove they were monetarily harmed, as Delta is claiming force-majeure on the furlough and scope portions of the Delta pilots' contract, and DCI is expanding.

I think that maybe you are not seeing the big picture for either DAL or the DCI W/O. Including ASA/Comair in the DAL system block hours would hurt DALPA tremendously, as it would allow mgt to use RJs and cheap labor (read ASA/Comair) as replacement flying at their leisure, with no incentive whatsoever to restore any higher paying mainline jobs or flying. That would then open the 34% of the allowed feed for outside "contract" partners (Skywest, Eagle, ACA, etc.)

Personally, I would like to see it (greivance) resolved in such away that the % that DALPA negotiated is enforced hard and fast, and take some wind out of the RJDC complaint by stipulating that the % which IS allowed is to performed ONLY by W/O carriers. This would maintain the integrity of the DALPA PWA, as it was negotiated, with reference to the %s, and with the contract carriers out of the picture, provide security and HUGE growth potential to the W/O carriers while staying under the %s established by the DALPA PWA. At that point, I think the RJDC would be essentially neutered. It would be hard for the RJDC to maintain their claims of foul play when DALPA had done something like that to provide job security and career enhancement to the DCI W/O in the terms of the PWA.

It's a nice thought anyway....

 

[prodigal]

???

Hey Braniff,
I'm not coming down on either side of the rjdc issue here but . . .
A couple of times you've made remarks to the effect that anyone who stays at a regional is either lazy or not educated enough to rise to the exalted level of a major airline. That's pretty arrogant. I'm sure there are plenty of regional guys who are satisfied with regional life, or, as in my case as an older pilot, have no realistic chance to make it to a major. Why should lowly regional pilots have to take it in the shorts just because they want (or have) to stay at a regional? You see, the regionals are not just a dues paying stepping stone for everyone.
And if you think this job is really hard, as you stated, I'd submit that you have led a pretty lucky and sheltered work life. Try going out and doing door to door sales or law enforcement if you think you have it so hard.
I have been self employed most of my adult life and know what it is like to live in the "real" economic world. Someone else also accurately pointed out that the airlines (yes, even the majors) exist for one reason, and one reason only: to MAKE A PROFIT at the business of moving people from point A to point B. It might even help to think that's it's almost only coincidental that they use airplanes to do so. They do not exist to supply jobs to even the most exalted amoung us. I have mixed feelings about unions, good and bad, but, as someone else also said, what good is the best contract in the industry if you're out of a job?
The airlines operate within this enviornment we call an economy and it's the economy, or the market, if you will, which will ultimately determine everything in the long run, not the unions and not a particular contract.
As for the rdjc issue, I can honestly see both sides as I don't have a dog in that fight (objectivity perhaps). Think maybe I'll hold out for Skywest, or maybe just be happy in my lowly (read non-major) part-time corp. gig.
Is anyone here really looking past their own self interests, at the REAL big picture?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: ???

Is anyone here really looking past their own self interests, at the REAL big picture?

Yes, Prodigal, I truly believe some of us are. On the other hand, there's the rjdc....

 

[Spectre]

Why are the majors (NWA and Continental) spinning off their wholely-owned regionals (ie. NWA and the all-new Pinnacle Airlines)?

 

[RJFlyer]

FDJ:

Re: point #1 - 'Not all successful lawsuits have merit.' - True. And if all settlement offers have come from RJDC, I'd like to see some evidence of that claim. Good luck getting any info about it out of ALPA. This is from RJDC's bulletin: "In response to ALPA’s request, we have formally submitted a proposal designed to foster a process that could resolve the numerous and complex issues in a credible and expeditious manner." I know the fact that it came from the RJDC website doesn't carry much weight with you, but I'm interested to see evidence from you to the contrary.

Re: point #2 - No, I'm not smoking crack, and you're not looking at my post as a whole, but rather on a sentence-by-sentence basis, apparently. I know DALPA would never do this on their own - they would be forced to act in a fair manner, either by settlement or by a judge. 'We will leave ALPA way before ever agreeing to something like that' - for the record, I believe that to be untrue.

Re: your point #3 - if Delta only offered 1 or 2 daily flights on a 767, you'd have a hard time filling them, as the passengers who want more travel choices would go elsewhere. But eventually some if not all of those RJs will be upgraded to larger equipment. And while writing this I just downloaded the latest flight schedules, and what do you know - there are 5 daily round-trips between ATL and YYZ, and 2 of them are MD-80's. Interesting...

 

[RJFlyer]

MetroSheriff:

Including ASA/Comair in the DAL system block hours would hurt DALPA tremendously, as it would allow mgt to use RJs and cheap labor (read ASA/Comair) as replacement flying at their leisure, with no incentive whatsoever to restore any higher paying mainline jobs or flying.

How do you figure? If there are 100 people wanting to fly at 8am, an RJ won't do. Period. Leo isn't stupid, and contrary to popular belief I'm sure he doesn't spend all his time and energy figuring out ways to screw the Delta pilots.

That would then open the 34% of the allowed feed for outside "contract" partners (Skywest, Eagle, ACA, etc.)

No, you just didn't understand what I was saying. Having DCI included in the block hours would be incentive for DALPA to more seriously pursue onelist. And I did say that the percentage for the non-W/O carriers would be renegotiated (i.e., downward).

Personally, I would like to see it (greivance) resolved in such away that the % that DALPA negotiated is enforced hard and fast, and take some wind out of the RJDC complaint by stipulating that the % which IS allowed is to performed ONLY by W/O carriers. This would maintain the integrity of the DALPA PWA, as it was negotiated, with reference to the %s, and with the contract carriers out of the picture, provide security and HUGE growth potential to the W/O carriers while staying under the %s established by the DALPA PWA. At that point, I think the RJDC would be essentially neutered. It would be hard for the RJDC to maintain their claims of foul play when DALPA had done something like that to provide job security and career enhancement to the DCI W/O in the terms of the PWA.

That is very true, and would be a pretty good solution to the problem. But would DALPA go for it? And if so, why haven't they already?

 

[av8instyle]

I just have to vent a little to the pro RJDC KKK:

Even though it takes several years to get to that 100K at a regional, do you really think you're not getting represented when you remember the fact that you made less than half that pay not five years ago?

Do you really think that the little RJDC Klan is more intelligent than the collective past and present ALPA? Because that's what it sounds like.

It seems to me that what you really want is the onelist. Which means that you would like a collective group of pilots that work for an airline that is not that hard to get on with to get a free ride into an airline that is EXTREMELY difficult to get on with. You should be so lucky.

My only hope is that after this whole RJDC fad is crushed, that a list of RJDC KKK members, similar to a SCAB list, is published and distributed. You can bet I'll use it!

Flame all you want, but the whole RJDC KKKthing is a disgrace to the industry and will only harm if it succeeds.

 

[MetroSheriff]

MetroSheriff:

No, you just didn't understand what I was saying. Having DCI included in the block hours would be incentive for DALPA to more seriously pursue onelist. And I did say that the percentage for the non-W/O carriers would be renegotiated (i.e., downward).

That is very true, and would be a pretty good solution to the problem. But would DALPA go for it? And if so, why haven't they already?

I think I missed the intent of your earlier statement. I read the earlier post and see what you were saying, and that makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood you.

 

[MetroSheriff]

I just have to vent a little to the pro RJDC KKK:

Even though it takes several years to get to that 100K at a regional, do you really think you're not getting represented when you remember the fact that you made less than half that pay not five years ago?

Do you really think that the little RJDC Klan is more intelligent than the collective past and present ALPA? Because that's what it sounds like.

It seems to me that what you really want is the onelist. Which means that you would like a collective group of pilots that work for an airline that is not that hard to get on with to get a free ride into an airline that is EXTREMELY difficult to get on with. You should be so lucky.

My only hope is that after this whole RJDC fad is crushed, that a list of RJDC KKK members, similar to a SCAB list, is published and distributed. You can bet I'll use it!

Flame all you want, but the whole RJDC KKKthing is a disgrace to the industry and will only harm if it succeeds.

Sir,

While I disagree with some of the RJDC methods comparing it to the KKK is offensive at best. As is your reference to scabs. In fact your entire post is fairly objectionable. If you have something usefull to add, whether you agree or disagree, post away, otherwise keep the flamebait to yourself.

 

[av8instyle]

While I disagree with some of the RJDC methods comparing it to the KKK is offensive at best. As is your reference to scabs. In fact your entire post is fairly objectionable. If you have something usefull to add, whether you agree or disagree, post away, otherwise keep the flamebait to yourself.

The RJDC is offensive at best! As are SCABS. In fact the RJDC motives are what is questionable. If you didn't want opinions, you're in the wrong country.

 

[73GDog]

ALPA recognizes that they've negotiated the Delta contract in bad faith, as it applies to ASA and Comair, and agree to renegotiate the scope clause to properly address the wholly-owned issue.



RJFlyer,
I am curious, did ALPA negotiate the Delta contract or did DALPA? It is my understanding that DALPA negotiated the contract for the Delta pilots however; I have been wrong before.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

RJ,

#1. I found the settlement offer on the rjdc's website. I have not found one on ALPA's. You are correct that this does not mean that ALPA has not made one, but I believe that I am correct when I speculate that a plaintiff who had an airtight case and stood to win everything he wanted would not offer to settle.

#2. I believe that I have a much better handle on the mood of the Delta pilot than you do. Scope has become a HUGE issue, and you can be certain that we would leave ALPA before being forced to weaken our scope. I cannot force you to believe me, but I can tell you the current attitude of the Delta pilot group.

#3. I did not have the schedule in front of me when I posted. I was under the impression that we had switched to all crjs. I stand corrected, but my point still stands. Two MD-80's out of seven flights does not change my point. But I will say again, I have no problem with any of Leo's economic decisions. He is way smarter than I am, and if he believes that we need to switch to an all rj fleet, than I can't argue. I won't be happy about it, but he is the expert.

All I want is for him to comply with our contract. DCI can make up a certain percentage (depending on the year) of our total flying. If Leo wants to use rjs to make up more than that percentage, he is welcome to do so. But WE must fly them. All we are asking him to do is comply with the contract that he signed. I am not sure why that is so unpopular.