The proper Jeppesen Approach Briefing

[flatspin7]

Why do you brief a missed approach altitude of 2000 feet AGL? Traffic pattern altitude for turbine airplanes is 1500 AGL.

To be honest I had a few Capt brief it like that alt, I guess I just picked it up as habit... 1500 is probably more correct, point taken.

 

[temcgrew]

What gets my dander up is when someone says 604, 804 or something short like that, then they want you to go thru thru the full brief when it's your turn. It is usually followed by "you should always do it the right way so when you get to your checkride you won't slip up and have to think of the proper way." It goes the same for takeoff briefing.

 

[Vne]

the full brief when it's your turn.

The full brief then:

This will be an ILS 30L dated (insert pg. date) 604 HTDZ -804 DA any questions?

The current long winded briefs are for the lawyers it adds only an opportunity for mis-understanding....imo
simple works simple is safer.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

You can find the FAA recommended briefing items for part 121 carriers in AC120-74A, appendix 5. It is about page 36 of the document if you open it in adobe. It give a couple of examplesfor SIDs, approach, and airport diagrams.

 

[macdu]

Well there you go. Somebody had to go and add an FAA reference to ruin this thread. Dang!
Glad to here the Chancellory is bending to some TWAism's. (Awaiting my dark side assimilation)

 

[flyburg]

Well, here's my two cents:

I always use the acronym ANWB

Aircraft
Notams
Weather
Briefing

Aircraft, brief any items that pertain to faults with the aircraft, like MEL items or failures that arised during the flight

Notams, brief any notam applicable to the briefing you are about to give ie landing: approach items, taxiway closures etc.

Weather: minima's, runway conditions( standing rain, snow etc having a impact on braking distance) temperature(cold weather corrections) altimeter setting etc

Don't necessarily have to mention all the above stated but at least think about them because they have an impact on the briefing.

Briefing: at the least mention the aircraft/brake/thrust revearser configuration because they differ according pilot preference and airport conditions, so don't assume the other pilot knows. All ILS's are the same they start at approx 2000' 6 miles out, no use in mentioning the inbound courses and altitudes and frequencies, you are profesional pilots and can read. Often forgotten though.. the fuel status. brief the amount of fuel and the course af action in case of a missed. mention taxi route in case of a unfamiliar airport. Always mention the minima's, especially when transferring from a turboprop to a jet, it's easy to overlook cat B v. cat c minima's or when flying a VNAV approach, don't use the ILS minima!


Many more things to add but the standard briefing goes something like: Aircraft wearher and notams are okay. We are going to fly the ILS to runway.... minima's are..... flaps 30, autobrake..... idle/normal reverse, in case of a missed we do......(divert/try again)

There is much more to the decision making proces of a succesful approach...howevere the brief should highlight the most important items amd make sure both pilots are in loop. You have slips and mistakes.

A slip is when a crew executes a good plan wrongly, easy to catch.

A mistake is when a bad plan is executed correctly!!!!


Anyways, that's my 2 cents

 

[instructordude]

If your brief lasts longer than 20 seconds my eyes will be glazing over if it's a CAT1, VOR, LOC. A CATII, III, is another story. An NDB is an emergency!
A brief is just that, brief.

I agree but briefs set the tone and are important. There is nothing more that I laugh at then some sloppy capt who isn't professional enough to properly and thorougly brief an approach. This lack of professionalism gets on my nerves.

 

[photopilot]

I agree but briefs set the tone and are important. There is nothing more that I laugh at then some sloppy capt who isn't professional enough to properly and thorougly brief an approach. This lack of professionalism gets on my nerves

See if you still feel the same way when as Captain you are flying a VFR approach, backing it up with the ILS 27, for the 500th time with your FO droning on with a 3 minute brief on a plate that you have memorized. Especially when he briefs over an ATC instruction that is more pertinent than the note that DME is required for this approach.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

See if you still feel the same way when as Captain you are flying a VFR approach, backing it up with the ILS 27, for the 500th time with your FO droning on with a 3 minute brief on a plate that you have memorized.

Ok, point taken. I can see that all you captains have such great skills that you dont need me to be here to start out with. Im just a seat warmer. Got it! But is it so much to ask of you just to entertain my rookieness and pretend to listen for an extra 30secs. Im sure that my presence only satisfies the FAA and no one else, but I can use some self-respect at the end of the day because you pretended to listen instead of looking out to infinity or focus on the vast body of water below. See, I was never that great of a captain in the regional to start out with.

Man, I need some therapy!

 

[Philerup]

Deleted

 

[Tripower455]

I agree but briefs set the tone and are important. There is nothing more that I laugh at then some sloppy capt who isn't professional enough to properly and thorougly brief an approach. This lack of professionalism gets on my nerves.

LOL..........

 

[100fly]

I feel that it is also important to brief which way to turn when exiting the runway. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but everyonce in a while I forget where I'm going once I get on the ground. All of the other stuff is nice too.

 

[Spidey]

uke:

PF: What runway they uzin?
PNF: 9L.
PF: Did ya string it?
PNF: Yup.
PF: Any questions?
PNF: We only got a 30 minute turn, what you want to eat?
PF: Popeye's works for me. Briefing complete.

...yep...yer one of those "Mr. Cool" dudettes...based upon yer own posts...well, I'm an ole-school dude...so there-in lies the differences...and you got really thin skin...and ya don't take the time to actually read anything...sure hope it's VFR on yer legs...and jez keep the autopilot on...I don't wanna get the pax sick...uke:

 

[Caveman]

If it ain't brief it ain't a brief. At my previous airline the briefs were just about perfect. "Visual to 31R, back it up with the ILS freq 111.5, go around with the tower, left turn off, no specials. Any questions?." We aren't gonna fly the airplane any different than we did the last time. We all expected the guy flying would configure to the normal landing config and meet the stable approach criteria. It wasn't necessary to explain that every single time.

At my current airline (B6) we flap our gums about way too much for way too long.

Here is just some of the stuff I hear on a regular basis:

The runway is 9467 feet long, with 7967 feet remaining after the TDZ. It's 150 feet wide with MALSR approach lights and a PAPI on the left side. Height above touchdown is 56 feet. This brief is included for VISUAL approaches! Why do I need to know exactly how long and wide the runway is and exactly how much is remaining after the TDZ. The runway is 9500 feet long. Good enough. All that other stuff is redundant. The TDZ almost always subtracts about 1500 feet. Why even mention it? All the runways are 150 or 100 feet wide. If they weren't we wouldn't be landing on it. Is there any airport we fly to that isn't long enough or wide enough? Why is the HAT important? The airplane is gonna be at about 50' over the numbers every time unless you fcuked it up.

Full missed approach brief for a visual approach? It's going to be heading and altitude as assigned by the tower. Who doesn't already know that?

Standard strategy,flaps full, autobrakes low, idle reverse and spoilers as necessary. Really? When in the last year and a half has it been anything other than what you just described.? Just tell me when it's going to be something different.

Threats are it's dark out. No shiite, thanks for pointing that out.

Flight standards has tried to slim it down somewhat, but the OBD's (Original Blue Dudes) can't seem to let it go. They still brief (and I use that word reluctantly) everything. It's really pretty ridiculous. Like others have pointed out, you lose me when you start to read everything on the plate. I know how to fly a Cat I ILS. We've both done it a time or two. Brief the basics: runway length, ILS freq, FAF and altitude, turn out, DH/MDA, WX and anything unusual about the approach, the airport, or the airplane.

I'm also one of those slackers that doesn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. How many times do I need to hear about the ILS 31R at JFK. It's my home airport. We've all done the approach 100 freaking times. "ILS 31R, nothings NOTAMed, WX is above mins, initial turn on the missed left turn direct Canarsie up to 1900 feet. No specials. Any questions?"

At the risk of starting a war, it's almost always the former mil dudes that want to brief your ears off. I know. It's a carry over from their previous lives. I understand. Most of us former regional pukes and single pilot freightdogs usually just politely listen and try to pay attention and pick out the important stuff. The rest is just background noise.

Flame suit on.

 

[ReverseSensing]

It should be like a skirt.

Long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to make it interesting.

Perfect! Thanks.

 

[Spidey]

If it ain't brief it ain't a brief. At my previous airline the briefs were just about perfect. "Visual to 31R, back it up with the ILS freq 111.5, go around with the tower, left turn off, no specials. Any questions?." We aren't gonna fly the airplane any different than we did the last time. We all expected the guy flying would configure to the normal landing config and meet the stable approach criteria. It wasn't necessary to explain that every single time.

At my current airline (B6) we flap our gums about way too much for way too long.

Here is just some of the stuff I hear on a regular basis:

The runway is 9467 feet long, with 7967 feet remaining after the TDZ. It's 150 feet wide with MALSR approach lights and a PAPI on the left side. Height above touchdown is 56 feet. This brief is included for VISUAL approaches! Why do I need to know exactly how long and wide the runway is and exactly how much is remaining after the TDZ. The runway is 9500 feet long. Good enough. All that other stuff is redundant. The TDZ almost always subtracts about 1500 feet. Why even mention it? All the runways are 150 or 100 feet wide. If they weren't we wouldn't be landing on it. Is there any airport we fly to that isn't long enough or wide enough? Why is the HAT important? The airplane is gonna be at about 50' over the numbers every time unless you fcuked it up.

Full missed approach brief for a visual approach? It's going to be heading and altitude as assigned by the tower. Who doesn't already know that?

Standard strategy,flaps full, autobrakes low, idle reverse and spoilers as necessary. Really? When in the last year and a half has it been anything other than what you just described.? Just tell me when it's going to be something different.

Threats are it's dark out. No shiite, thanks for pointing that out.

Flight standards has tried to slim it down somewhat, but the OBD's (Original Blue Dudes) can't seem to let it go. They still brief (and I use that word reluctantly) everything. It's really pretty ridiculous. Like others have pointed out, you lose me when you start to read everything on the plate. I know how to fly a Cat I ILS. We've both done it a time or two. Brief the basics: runway length, ILS freq, FAF and altitude, turn out, DH/MDA, WX and anything unusual about the approach, the airport, or the airplane.

I'm also one of those slackers that doesn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. How many times do I need to hear about the ILS 31R at JFK. It's my home airport. We've all done the approach 100 freaking times. "ILS 31R, nothings NOTAMed, WX is above mins, initial turn on the missed left turn direct Canarsie up to 1900 feet. No specials. Any questions?"

At the risk of starting a war, it's almost always the former mil dudes that want to brief your ears off. I know. It's a carry over from their previous lives. I understand. Most of us former regional pukes and single pilot freightdogs usually just politely listen and try to pay attention and pick out the important stuff. The rest is just background noise.

Flame suit on.

...that was a long brief...

 

[Caveman]

...that was a long brief...

Actually it was a rant, but you're right, it was long winded. :0

 

[Scrapdog]

Does anybody have a link or information about material on how Jeppesen actually thinks an approach should be briefed?
I have to come up with something for a flight school, so it has to be good. Thanks

Thanks

I'm on page 11-1, dated March 8, 2007...ILS RWY 5. Questions?

 

[zonker]

Don't work there anymore, but when I was a newbie at B6, I used to dread when the little "down arrow" that denotes the top of descent would come into view.

Because if it was my leg, I knew I was going to have to give one of those long ass briefings.

 

[Spidey]

...I never saw an ILS that didn't have a runway at the end of it...except fer Kai Tek and Haneda...and Kai Tek ain't there anymore...