The proper Jeppesen Approach Briefing

[Tripower455]

I agree but briefs set the tone and are important. There is nothing more that I laugh at then some sloppy capt who isn't professional enough to properly and thorougly brief an approach. This lack of professionalism gets on my nerves.

LOL..........

 

[100fly]

I feel that it is also important to brief which way to turn when exiting the runway. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but everyonce in a while I forget where I'm going once I get on the ground. All of the other stuff is nice too.

 

[Spidey]

uke:

PF: What runway they uzin?
PNF: 9L.
PF: Did ya string it?
PNF: Yup.
PF: Any questions?
PNF: We only got a 30 minute turn, what you want to eat?
PF: Popeye's works for me. Briefing complete.

...yep...yer one of those "Mr. Cool" dudettes...based upon yer own posts...well, I'm an ole-school dude...so there-in lies the differences...and you got really thin skin...and ya don't take the time to actually read anything...sure hope it's VFR on yer legs...and jez keep the autopilot on...I don't wanna get the pax sick...uke:

 

[Caveman]

If it ain't brief it ain't a brief. At my previous airline the briefs were just about perfect. "Visual to 31R, back it up with the ILS freq 111.5, go around with the tower, left turn off, no specials. Any questions?." We aren't gonna fly the airplane any different than we did the last time. We all expected the guy flying would configure to the normal landing config and meet the stable approach criteria. It wasn't necessary to explain that every single time.

At my current airline (B6) we flap our gums about way too much for way too long.

Here is just some of the stuff I hear on a regular basis:

The runway is 9467 feet long, with 7967 feet remaining after the TDZ. It's 150 feet wide with MALSR approach lights and a PAPI on the left side. Height above touchdown is 56 feet. This brief is included for VISUAL approaches! Why do I need to know exactly how long and wide the runway is and exactly how much is remaining after the TDZ. The runway is 9500 feet long. Good enough. All that other stuff is redundant. The TDZ almost always subtracts about 1500 feet. Why even mention it? All the runways are 150 or 100 feet wide. If they weren't we wouldn't be landing on it. Is there any airport we fly to that isn't long enough or wide enough? Why is the HAT important? The airplane is gonna be at about 50' over the numbers every time unless you fcuked it up.

Full missed approach brief for a visual approach? It's going to be heading and altitude as assigned by the tower. Who doesn't already know that?

Standard strategy,flaps full, autobrakes low, idle reverse and spoilers as necessary. Really? When in the last year and a half has it been anything other than what you just described.? Just tell me when it's going to be something different.

Threats are it's dark out. No shiite, thanks for pointing that out.

Flight standards has tried to slim it down somewhat, but the OBD's (Original Blue Dudes) can't seem to let it go. They still brief (and I use that word reluctantly) everything. It's really pretty ridiculous. Like others have pointed out, you lose me when you start to read everything on the plate. I know how to fly a Cat I ILS. We've both done it a time or two. Brief the basics: runway length, ILS freq, FAF and altitude, turn out, DH/MDA, WX and anything unusual about the approach, the airport, or the airplane.

I'm also one of those slackers that doesn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. How many times do I need to hear about the ILS 31R at JFK. It's my home airport. We've all done the approach 100 freaking times. "ILS 31R, nothings NOTAMed, WX is above mins, initial turn on the missed left turn direct Canarsie up to 1900 feet. No specials. Any questions?"

At the risk of starting a war, it's almost always the former mil dudes that want to brief your ears off. I know. It's a carry over from their previous lives. I understand. Most of us former regional pukes and single pilot freightdogs usually just politely listen and try to pay attention and pick out the important stuff. The rest is just background noise.

Flame suit on.

 

[ReverseSensing]

It should be like a skirt.

Long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to make it interesting.

Perfect! Thanks.

 

[Spidey]

If it ain't brief it ain't a brief. At my previous airline the briefs were just about perfect. "Visual to 31R, back it up with the ILS freq 111.5, go around with the tower, left turn off, no specials. Any questions?." We aren't gonna fly the airplane any different than we did the last time. We all expected the guy flying would configure to the normal landing config and meet the stable approach criteria. It wasn't necessary to explain that every single time.

At my current airline (B6) we flap our gums about way too much for way too long.

Here is just some of the stuff I hear on a regular basis:

The runway is 9467 feet long, with 7967 feet remaining after the TDZ. It's 150 feet wide with MALSR approach lights and a PAPI on the left side. Height above touchdown is 56 feet. This brief is included for VISUAL approaches! Why do I need to know exactly how long and wide the runway is and exactly how much is remaining after the TDZ. The runway is 9500 feet long. Good enough. All that other stuff is redundant. The TDZ almost always subtracts about 1500 feet. Why even mention it? All the runways are 150 or 100 feet wide. If they weren't we wouldn't be landing on it. Is there any airport we fly to that isn't long enough or wide enough? Why is the HAT important? The airplane is gonna be at about 50' over the numbers every time unless you fcuked it up.

Full missed approach brief for a visual approach? It's going to be heading and altitude as assigned by the tower. Who doesn't already know that?

Standard strategy,flaps full, autobrakes low, idle reverse and spoilers as necessary. Really? When in the last year and a half has it been anything other than what you just described.? Just tell me when it's going to be something different.

Threats are it's dark out. No shiite, thanks for pointing that out.

Flight standards has tried to slim it down somewhat, but the OBD's (Original Blue Dudes) can't seem to let it go. They still brief (and I use that word reluctantly) everything. It's really pretty ridiculous. Like others have pointed out, you lose me when you start to read everything on the plate. I know how to fly a Cat I ILS. We've both done it a time or two. Brief the basics: runway length, ILS freq, FAF and altitude, turn out, DH/MDA, WX and anything unusual about the approach, the airport, or the airplane.

I'm also one of those slackers that doesn't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. How many times do I need to hear about the ILS 31R at JFK. It's my home airport. We've all done the approach 100 freaking times. "ILS 31R, nothings NOTAMed, WX is above mins, initial turn on the missed left turn direct Canarsie up to 1900 feet. No specials. Any questions?"

At the risk of starting a war, it's almost always the former mil dudes that want to brief your ears off. I know. It's a carry over from their previous lives. I understand. Most of us former regional pukes and single pilot freightdogs usually just politely listen and try to pay attention and pick out the important stuff. The rest is just background noise.

Flame suit on.

...that was a long brief...

 

[Caveman]

...that was a long brief...

Actually it was a rant, but you're right, it was long winded. :0

 

[Scrapdog]

Does anybody have a link or information about material on how Jeppesen actually thinks an approach should be briefed?
I have to come up with something for a flight school, so it has to be good. Thanks

Thanks

I'm on page 11-1, dated March 8, 2007...ILS RWY 5. Questions?

 

[zonker]

Don't work there anymore, but when I was a newbie at B6, I used to dread when the little "down arrow" that denotes the top of descent would come into view.

Because if it was my leg, I knew I was going to have to give one of those long ass briefings.

 

[Spidey]

...I never saw an ILS that didn't have a runway at the end of it...except fer Kai Tek and Haneda...and Kai Tek ain't there anymore...

 

[username]

604-804 questions?

I loved that briefing!

We'd be off by a foot now. 605-805 just doesn't have the same ring to it since they raised 30R!

 

[hawk16e]

When you do give a brief, long or short, don't turn your head away (plate down by the brain bag) and mumble. That is a waste of time.

 

[HalinTexas]

Vis. app: Visual runway xx

If it's not a vis. app.

Approach/runway, page, date.

Freq, course, mins. WX crosscheck.

Miss. (alt. left turn/right turn/straight or "in the box)

Terrain.

Flaps, brakes, exit L/R.

Specials: Like I'm trying to catch a flight home so "I'm gonna slam it and squeal it."

Took a lot longer to type it than say it.

 

[Flyer1015]

What does it matter?

We're switching to LIDO!

All so the company can save a buck (roughly 15k /month) from not having to use Jepps anymore.

 

[Benhuntn]

Any which way that gets the job done, doesn't put the other pilot to sleep and is complete before the approach is.

 

[instructordude]

Any which way that gets the job done, doesn't put the other pilot to sleep and is complete before the approach is.

Just remember to have it done below 10K. Static environment below 10K as per the FARs.

 

[Spidey]

Just remember to have it done below 10K. Static environment below 10K as per the FARs.

...Benhuntn was flyin jets long before you were born...he's got more time below 10K than you have on Earth...must take a long time to climb back above 10k to brief, when they change the approach on ya...

 

[Benhuntn]

Spidey, your alive and well. Good to hear form you again.

 

[Neubyfly]

604-804 questions?

I think it's 605/805 now (chart not on hand). St. Louis grew a foot.

 

[Spidey]

...Instructordud(e)...playing with fire...and continually getting burned...and doesn't know the FAR's very well...mmm...won't look good on an interview...the burn marks, that is...

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Does anybody have a link or information about material on how Jeppesen actually thinks an approach should be briefed?
I have to come up with something for a flight school, so it has to be good. Thanks

Thanks

I swear! You kids have it so easy. Do some damn research on your own instead of someone doing it for you.

How freaking hard is it to find how to brief an approach on the internet.

Whats next, paying for help on How to write a resume? Oh wait!

Idiots...

 

[QCappy]

Just remember to have it done below 10K. Static environment below 10K as per the FARs.

Please tell me you're kidding, and that picture isn't you. I will sleep better knowing you're not serious.

 

[instructordude]

Please tell me you're kidding, and that picture isn't you. I will sleep better knowing you're not serious.

You'll sleep good tonight!

 

[Spidey]

Just remember to have it done below 10K. Static environment below 10K as per the FARs.

...need some guidance...I don't look at the pay anymore...I didn't at your age either...and flown some places, and done stuff outside your limited experience...

 

[Hawker rider]

I bet you guys are all so wonderfull to fly with..

"Why are you doing that??" well i guess you didn't read my mind good enough when you said you didn't have any questions.......

Just go by the books what is the big deal with a briefing lasting 15 or 30 seconds, especially if you have just flown for 8 hours over the ocean. It helps getting everybody in the picture of where you are what you want to do, who is going heads-up and heads-down.

It can make for a lot of stress in the cockpit if you expect an ILS and you hear from ATC that it's going to be a VOR with a circling when you're at 2000' and 5 miles from point of descent.

Does it hurt you so much to go through everything for a minute. At least then you're prepared for what the Pilot-flying wants to do.

 

[blzr]

Just make sure the PNF gets the frequencies tuned and ID'd. Someone nearly bought the farm in SAV a few months ago doing an ILS with the VOR tuned instead of the LOC. They "Finally" figured it out at about 400 agl over the shipyard with the tower screaming at them. Was a contract co-pilot on a c560. I personally would blame the cptain on that one.

Also, on the missed, I just brief the initial heding and altitude, also throw in "or ATC assigned" if in radar.

 

[Spidey]

You'll sleep good tonight!

..I've interviewed many this month...2 said they recognized that pic...1 has yer resume...all 3 lines...was gonna post it but got a message, "Insufficient Data"...sleep good...it's a much smaller world than you think...and I'm sure you've not made Tokyo-DC nonstop...but ya may have...in yer mind...don't be such an idiot at the beginning of yer career...you'll never get anywhere...guys like me throw ya to the side instead of becoming yer mentor...and if yer "Yada Yada's" kid...yer in for a longer road...just fly the airplane...
that in itself will earn you respect and grandour for decades...and your passengers demand it with each ticket they buy...

 

[Spidey]

Just make sure the PNF gets the frequencies tuned and ID'd. Someone nearly bought the farm in SAV a few months ago doing an ILS with the VOR tuned instead of the LOC. They "Finally" figured it out at about 400 agl over the shipyard with the tower screaming at them. Was a contract co-pilot on a c560. I personally would blame the cptain on that one.

Also, on the missed, I just brief the initial heding and altitude, also throw in "or ATC assigned" if in radar.

...whoa, that had to be scary!..cheers!