The logic of relative seniority

[cactusboy53]

I stand by my date of hire- there is no alternative!

Then you are out-standing in a field with only 3000 of your closest AA friends. I stand by following a process and complying with an agreement that both parties said they would honor. I stand by keeping my word. I stand by not letting a larger group bully a smaller group with an endless web-cast of "date of hire".

Don't believe me? Standing with me is a respected Mediator/Arbitrator, two pilot neutrals, a federal district court judge, a impartial jury (less than 90 minutes to find USAPA guilty of a DFR), 1 appellate judge (primarily) & 2 appellate judges (not ripe YET, but most assuredly so with a contract that contains something other than the Nic). Not to mention 1800 AWA pilots and countless pilots from other carriers.

St. Nic, the SWA & AirTran pilots have a process of their own. They really don't want to hear how you plan on dodging a final & binding seniority award is a "Gold Standard". Heck they probably don't want to hear any AWA pilot attempt to logically argue the salient points of our little problem.

 

[ivauir]

Anyone know if there is a SWA/AAI process agreement yet? These AWA/US guys are makin me nervous.

 

[Tripower455]

What do the SWA Pilots want?

For the entire AT acquisition to go away. As I've said before, it's nothing personal, but this acquisition is the worst news, by far, that I've heard in my 15 years at SW and IMHO (I sincerely hope that I'm wrong) will prove to be a fatal mistake to our once great airline.

While it's far from scientifically accurate data, I have not talked to any SWA guys that want this acquisition to happen at all. The one exception is a junior FO who lives in ATL and wants to drive to work.

SW pilots, as a group, have little to gain and a lot to lose in this acquisition. Vice versa for the AT guys. Forgive me if I am not ecstatic about the deal.

 

[TWA Dude]

SW pilots, as a group, have little to gain and a lot to lose in this acquisition.

So complain to your employer. Whatever career stagnation you may suffer isn't the AT pilots' fault.

 

[Tripower455]

So complain to your employer. Whatever career stagnation you may suffer isn't the AT pilots' fault.

I'm not complaining to anyone. He asked a question, and I answered it.

FWIW, It's not our fault either, yet out of all the groups involved, SW pilots are the only ones with much to lose........

 

[kwick]

I'm not complaining to anyone. He asked a question, and I answered it.

FWIW, It's not our fault either, yet out of all the groups involved, SW pilots are the only ones with much to lose........

You lose Nothing!

But, You want the AT guys to lose their present jobs and
seniority.

 

[Tripower455]

You lose Nothing!

But, You want the AT guys to lose their present jobs and
seniority.

No, I'd LOVE to see the AT guys keep their present jobs and seniority!

Before 9/27, the AT guys wanted to get bought and stapled because it was far better than they had. Post 9/27, they want OUR jobs and seniority.....

Which means we lose if they get it.....

 

[Ty Webb]

No, I'd LOVE to see the AT guys keep their present jobs and seniority!

Before 9/27, the AT guys wanted to get bought and stapled because it was far better than they had.

A few very junior FO's were frustrated by Contract Negotiations one night and posted "please buy us". If you want to cling to that as a negotiating point, feel free, but it isn't really relevant.

 

[vetrider]

Well, I think you guys collectively, AT and SWA, have one thing going for you. That is it appears that you aren't going to shrink. That should be a huge help.

At AWA/AAA the whole damn thing has just been a fist fight over a shrinking pie with disparate lists. There couldn't have been a more perfect storm.

 

[kc81900]

Ok, I will bite on this one.......As an AirTran guy - if we go relative seniority I will lose out. Put yourself in my shoes. AirTran stays AirTran I upgrade to CPT in 2 years under the existing aircraft order structure. With relative seniority and a merge into SWA upgrade is a probably a decade off. As a AirTran CPT I would make more under the new AirTran CBA then as a SWA FO.

Using logic I think the only fair way is a relative seniority integration. We do bring a lot to the table and so do you! I hope we become a power house and we grow like weeds with upgrades all around.

Aircraft orders are not aircraft on property. SWA had aggressive aircraft orders three years ago then things changed as things can and will change at airtran. Aircraft orders can and often are delayed and cancelled as quickly as they are made.

Your CEO has publicly said airtran does not have the financial position to continue this aggressive growth plan and needs SWA's financial position to continue on this growth path. A 2 year upgrade today at airtran can easily and quickly change to a 7 - 10 year upgrade in the blink of an eye. So as far as I and anyone who has been in this industry for any length of time (22 years for me) that argument does not hold water. Ask any usair east or TWA pilot about career expectations.

 

[Tripower455]

A few very junior FO's were frustrated by Contract Negotiations one night and posted "please buy us". If you want to cling to that as a negotiating point, feel free, but it isn't really relevant.

Nearly 1/3 of your list has or had active applications on file at SWA.

 

[Ty Webb]

Nearly 1/3 of your list has or had active applications on file at SWA.

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

 

[Dash Power]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

 

[Tripower455]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

How many have actually left?

 

[slaquer5]

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

What kind of leave is it? OJI ?