The logic of relative seniority

[clr4theapch]

To the members it may concern... I received a report on this thread and was appauled that there are members here that are hell bent on destroying a fellow aviator, even tying to ruin a career by outing the person..

Quite frankly, I think it stinks, and it is a BIG violation of the terms of service here.. I don't give a Rats butt who you are or who you work for, nor do I care personally about hiding behind a screen name..

A new member comes on here tonight with 8 stinking posts with the full intent to create discontent at someone elses expense.. His gone for 10 days and will be booted for good if he come back with the same intent...

I dont care enough about this thread or the time to go back a read every post..
So 30 day suspension are effective for anyone that makes another personal attack, from post # 281 forward!

I am not playing around.. be nice, or see ya next year... Tis the season...

 

[Lear70]

Lear,
The funny thing is that you cannot see how much you "moderate" the SWA/AT threads.

Well, like I said on another thread, it's certainly a valid concern. I don't think I'm moderating any more than I moderate other threads (we went through a lot of this with UAir/AWA, a lot of people got time off or outright banned in the first few months after the announcement and especially right after Nicolau).

However, in the interest of fairness and so that nothing can be seen as "inappropriate", I'm stepping away from moderating the SWA/AAI threads. This isn't a decision by the mods or webmaster, it's mine. I'll still be moderating other conversations with other airlines, just will be staying away from the SWA/AAI discussions and letting the other moderators handle it.

Again, looking forward to working with the fine folks at Southwest. Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Merry Christmas to you as well.

 

[St. Nic]

One can see how this thread devolves into acrimony and biting over a fair way to integrate seniority lists. NOBODY can argue that going by Date of Hire is biased or favors one group over another- every other system of integration leads to the problems we have seen with DAL/ NWA and AWA/ USAir. It doesn't have to be this way and the USAir pilots understand this as well as the appeals courts.
SWAPA has the keys to this merger to do the right thing- establish a date of hire integration for the combined list with conditions and restrictions. It has worked well in the past and is the gold standard we go by in airline labor for our benefits.

 

[Ty Webb]

NOBODY can argue that going by Date of Hire is biased or favors one group over another- every other system of integration leads to the problems we have seen with DAL/ NWA and AWA/ USAir.

I can't believe you even put those two in the same sentence. Thanks for the laugh, but I think you just destroyed your own argument from within.

It doesn't have to be this way and the USAir pilots understand this as well as the appeals courts.

Oh, boy. . . . . You are just filled up with poisonous bile that oozes out into all threads you touch.

SWAPA has the keys to this merger to do the right thing- establish a date of hire integration for the combined list with conditions and restrictions. It has worked well in the past and is the gold standard we go by in airline labor for our benefits.

You don't seem to understand the law . . . SWAPA and ATN71 will work together to find an equitable solution, which will be put to the Pilots to vote on. Mediation is available, and, failing that, arbitration, which is FINAL, btw. Failure to accept the finality of the Arbitration would condemn us to your particular hell, which isn't worth any amount of seniority, IMHO.

Ty

 

[St. Nic]

Mediation is available, and, failing that, arbitration, which is FINAL, btw. Failure to accept the finality of the Arbitration would condemn us to your particular hell, which isn't worth any amount of seniority, IMHO.

Ty

We did that! One group failed to compromise and that is why we are in the situation we are in at USAirways and if the AT guys follow the same path the MesaWest pilots follow then Southwest will have the same problem. ALPA was to soft on MesaWest and gave them the idea that their five months of seniority was equal to 17 years at USAirways through this "relative seniority" bull$h!t. It doesn't work unless you are a commuter pilot going for the "get rich quick" scheme.
The AirTran pilots should take note of what greed gets you- look what it got the MesaWest pilots- $2million in legal fees and a DOH cramdown.

 

[Ty Webb]

The AirTran pilots should take note of what greed gets you- look what it got the MesaWest pilots- $2million in legal fees and a DOH cramdown.

Actually, the East are the ones still working under a bankruptcy-era contract and choking on their own bile.

 

[say again]

Actually, the East are the ones still working under a bankruptcy-era contract and choking on their own bile.

Hopefully the bile wins!!

 

[cactusboy53]

We did that! One group failed to compromise and that is why we are in the situation we are in at USAirways and if the AT guys follow the same path the MesaWest pilots follow then Southwest will have the same problem. ALPA was to soft on MesaWest and gave them the idea that their five months of seniority was equal to 17 years at USAirways through this "relative seniority" bull$h!t. It doesn't work unless you are a commuter pilot going for the "get rich quick" scheme.
The AirTran pilots should take note of what greed gets you- look what it got the MesaWest pilots- $2million in legal fees and a DOH cramdown.

To be more correct: One group stated that failing negotiations & mediation that group would abide by the decision of a third neutral party. Just because you state the outcome is not fair, does not mean the outcome is not fair.

See you in court....again.

This will end eventually. I won't predict who will win, but my bet is on final & binding. I don't know where you are on the list, but you and your organization have made this one of the most notorious merger integrations in the history of commercial aviation. The spin & hyperbole from USAPA will eventually cease.

 

[St. Nic]

Cactus boy, you are way off on your recollection of events. The east approached you guys about compromising on the biased arbitration decision and your side said no. NOw you have to live with USAPA and the DOH without any conditions and restrictions. You did this to yourself, blame your ALPA reps. The east pilots will move forward with DOH weather you like it or not, the blame rests with you! Look around, relative seniority doesn't work!

 

[cactusboy53]

Cactus boy, you are way off on your recollection of events. The east approached you guys about compromising on the biased arbitration decision and your side said no. NOw you have to live with USAPA and the DOH without any conditions and restrictions. You did this to yourself, blame your ALPA reps. The east pilots will move forward with DOH weather you like it or not, the blame rests with you! Look around, relative seniority doesn't work!

Sorry kiddo, your facts are off as are your recollections. I am supremely disappointed in the events that the east pilots have take through (RICO, DFR lawsuit, etc.). I find it a shame that after 5 years of this nonsense, there are still people that refuse to believe what happened in the acquisition, negotiations, mediation, arbitration, and federal district court. I was raised better than that, and I know that a lion's share of you were also.

I hope and pray that we all enjoy a very Merry Christmas, and set this board aside tomorrow and enjoy your family and friends. Tomorrow is the celebration of the birth of God's son, and what he means to those that believe in him. Luke 2:8-20

 

[jonjuan]

Sorry kiddo, your facts are off as are your recollections. I am supremely disappointed in the events that the east pilots have take through (RICO, DFR lawsuit, etc.). I find it a shame that after 5 years of this nonsense, there are still people that refuse to believe what happened in the acquisition, negotiations, mediation, arbitration, and federal district court. I was raised better than that, and I know that a lion's share of you were also.

I hope and pray that we all enjoy a very Merry Christmas, and set this board aside tomorrow and enjoy your family and friends. Tomorrow is the celebration of the birth of God's son, and what he means to those that believe in him. Luke 2:8-20

Dude-put him on ignore and he'll go away.

 

[vetrider]

Cactus boy, you are way off on your recollection of events. The east approached you guys about compromising on the biased arbitration decision and your side said no. NOw you have to live with USAPA and the DOH without any conditions and restrictions. You did this to yourself, blame your ALPA reps. The east pilots will move forward with DOH weather you like it or not, the blame rests with you! Look around, relative seniority doesn't work!

You're moving forward with DOH 'weather' we like it or not? Uh huh. I thought I was a dumb********************, you make me feel better about myself. Thank you for that.

 

[waveflyer]

I think this is where the mods kick these 2 to the curb for a month...?

 

[vetrider]

Probably.

 

[Hamburger]

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it's just not gonna work that way. All you AAI guys that think "the law requires relative seniority" are going to be sorely disappointed.

I'm not an AAI guy, I just know what's right.
You aren't special. You're just a number on a piece of paper. Get over yourself.

Can't be happy with what you've got,. Instead you obsess over what you've convinced yourself you're owed even though you've done nothing to earn it.

 

[St. Nic]

I think this is where the mods kick these 2 to the curb for a month...?

Ok genius, you cam talk about the southwest merger on five different threads, even a generic thread like relative seniority. But the second someone brings up relative seniority with DAL and USAir there is a violation of the terms of the board. Got it Ace! Thanks for the Southwest update

 

[JetMonkey]

Ok genius, you cam talk about the southwest merger on five different threads, even a generic thread like relative seniority. But the second someone brings up relative seniority with DAL and USAir there is a violation of the terms of the board. Got it Ace! Thanks for the Southwest update

Merry Christmas a$$wipe.

 

[St. Nic]

I'm not an AAI guy, I just know what's right.
You aren't special. You're just a number on a piece of paper. Get over yourself.

Can't be happy with what you've got,. Instead you obsess over what you've convinced yourself you're owed even though you've done nothing to earn it.

How about you just understand that all Southwest pilots want is date of hire seniority with conditions and restrictions. Allow all the Southwest fo's upgrade before any AAI fo can upgrade in to a Southwest base. The same holds true for Atlanta, that's the beauty of conditions and restrictions- to protect both sides while preserving date of hire for all. There would be no need for any of this discussion.
YOu seem to misread what a lot of people are saying from the Southwest side. I along with many others understand their point (like all the USAir pilots). Date of hire doesn't open the pandoras box that this new found "relative seniority" bs does.

 

[doh]

Cactus boy, you are way off on your recollection of events. The east approached you guys about compromising on the biased arbitration decision and your side said no. NOw you have to live with USAPA and the DOH without any conditions and restrictions. You did this to yourself, blame your ALPA reps. The east pilots will move forward with DOH weather you like it or not, the blame rests with you! Look around, relative seniority doesn't work!

Weather? WTF, did you learn to spell at the same place you learned about integrity? And since you refer to your saviors as MesaWest even though they have a much better contract than you, I shall refer to you as MesaLeast from now on.