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the dream gone forever?
- Thread starter Otto77
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rumrnr78
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2004
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- 601
Pretty sage advice. I have a corporate job that I love. But, I also keep my resume up to date and also have a membership to an aviation website. Because as "G" points out, you just never know what is going to happen in this industry!
All the best in your search! Cheers- Rum
J and E's Daddy
Jacob & Emma's Daddy
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2006
- Posts
- 218
My advice, have a backup just in case. The industry is in a shambles. I am making less than what I was making a few years ago, and the costs of living have gone up. Wages haven't kept pace. Unfortunately, we are our own worst enemies. For each pilot job vacated, thee are still another 5-10 awaiting to fill that vacancy and would be willing to do it for less money. We had those who paid for their training and those who are willing to fly for next to nothing. Until, we as pilots, realize we have a skill and a specialty and should be paid appropriately, then pay rates will still be kept low. Every bankruptcy, companies run to the pilot's union and asks for paycuts, and everytime we oblige, and for what? To save our jobs? I was hoping after the last fiasco, we'd learn our lessons, but obviously I doubt that.
Ok enough venting. Have a backup plan. I see so many young kids coming out of the North Dakota, Auburn, Perdue with aviation degrees and nothing else. All they know how to do is fly. But what would happen if the industry went completely bankrupt and thousands upon thousands of jobs were lost. Or even another scenario, and this happened to me. I suffered a serious vision problem and lost my medical for a while. I was not able to keep a medical and was not able to fly. (Luckily this was corrected) Luckily flying is my second career, so I had something to fall back on so I can support my family. So, it's best to have a backup. Also did I mention a wife or a husband who will be supportive of you? This profession has a high divorce rate, right up there with police officers.
But remember there is still good about this job, don't get me wrong. After 10 years and three airlines flying Part 121, it's still fun to look out the window and see where I am, and to see the sights. It's still neat how I can wake up in Portland, Me on morning and find myself in Indianapolis or Atlanta later that night. Also, when I finish work, and go and catch my commute home, I can leave my work behind and not worry. Also, the average 7-4:30 Monday through Friday worker gets on average, 8 1/2 days off per month. I usually get around 14 days off a month. So, I have time during the week to get things done or spend time with the children when I am home.
If we can fix some of the bad, that's fixable, then this profession would be even better.
I am still a night owl and,
And to answer your main question, my dream job is still either UPS or FEDEX.
Ok enough venting. Have a backup plan. I see so many young kids coming out of the North Dakota, Auburn, Perdue with aviation degrees and nothing else. All they know how to do is fly. But what would happen if the industry went completely bankrupt and thousands upon thousands of jobs were lost. Or even another scenario, and this happened to me. I suffered a serious vision problem and lost my medical for a while. I was not able to keep a medical and was not able to fly. (Luckily this was corrected) Luckily flying is my second career, so I had something to fall back on so I can support my family. So, it's best to have a backup. Also did I mention a wife or a husband who will be supportive of you? This profession has a high divorce rate, right up there with police officers.
But remember there is still good about this job, don't get me wrong. After 10 years and three airlines flying Part 121, it's still fun to look out the window and see where I am, and to see the sights. It's still neat how I can wake up in Portland, Me on morning and find myself in Indianapolis or Atlanta later that night. Also, when I finish work, and go and catch my commute home, I can leave my work behind and not worry. Also, the average 7-4:30 Monday through Friday worker gets on average, 8 1/2 days off per month. I usually get around 14 days off a month. So, I have time during the week to get things done or spend time with the children when I am home.
If we can fix some of the bad, that's fixable, then this profession would be even better.
I am still a night owl and,
And to answer your main question, my dream job is still either UPS or FEDEX.
Last edited:
Aviation has started a permanent decline
Anyone who plans to stay in aviation should do themselves a favor and go to the www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net website and read it very carefully. This is not some tree hugger stuff guys, this is science and it is real. The capacity decline is beginning now in the airlines....and it is not going to come back. In all probability it will become to expensive for average people to fly within the next 20 years or so. Aviation by the mid 21st century will likely only be possible for the very rich and the government. I love flying as much as the rest of you but it is time to be realistic about it. Sorry to $hit on your doorstep but reality is now.
Anyone who plans to stay in aviation should do themselves a favor and go to the www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net website and read it very carefully. This is not some tree hugger stuff guys, this is science and it is real. The capacity decline is beginning now in the airlines....and it is not going to come back. In all probability it will become to expensive for average people to fly within the next 20 years or so. Aviation by the mid 21st century will likely only be possible for the very rich and the government. I love flying as much as the rest of you but it is time to be realistic about it. Sorry to $hit on your doorstep but reality is now.
Hey Otto.
My suggestion would be to leave active duty, find a reserve flying job (ATC is a great option from a lifestyle perspective - no activations, deployments or chem gear), and to pursue a non-pilot civil career. Going back to school to "reblue" your job skills while flying part-time in the reserves might be a component of such a plan...
I am retired ANG (Vipers) and dipped Delta three years ago to attend law school full-time. Going back to school has been great fun (though very honestly a bit of a grind at times) and things are now coming together career-wise. I'm genuinely excited about the future.
My buds who have remained with the airlines have reacted to the implosion of the profession in mixed ways. Those who tend to worry about the future are understandably upset. Those who just take life as it comes are doing OK. You might pause and do a bit of self-assessment to consider how you look at things. If you don't mind externalities holding great sway over your professional and financial future, then you might do well with an airline. If you'd rather exercise some degree of control over your destiny and rely more upon your own wits, then I'd recommend seeking something outside the cockpit.
Obviously I was of the latter mindset and have been very happy with my decision to seek a alternative career.
Regardless the path you choose, best of luck.
Regards,
Felix
My suggestion would be to leave active duty, find a reserve flying job (ATC is a great option from a lifestyle perspective - no activations, deployments or chem gear), and to pursue a non-pilot civil career. Going back to school to "reblue" your job skills while flying part-time in the reserves might be a component of such a plan...
I am retired ANG (Vipers) and dipped Delta three years ago to attend law school full-time. Going back to school has been great fun (though very honestly a bit of a grind at times) and things are now coming together career-wise. I'm genuinely excited about the future.
My buds who have remained with the airlines have reacted to the implosion of the profession in mixed ways. Those who tend to worry about the future are understandably upset. Those who just take life as it comes are doing OK. You might pause and do a bit of self-assessment to consider how you look at things. If you don't mind externalities holding great sway over your professional and financial future, then you might do well with an airline. If you'd rather exercise some degree of control over your destiny and rely more upon your own wits, then I'd recommend seeking something outside the cockpit.
Obviously I was of the latter mindset and have been very happy with my decision to seek a alternative career.
Regardless the path you choose, best of luck.
Regards,
Felix
Krew,
Unfortunately, I believe that you are spot-on here.
As part of an M&A course I recently completed, a "senior executive" of a merging major air carrier came in to chat with our class. Your words reflect his, and nearly verbatim. He stated flatly, "Airline seats will no longer be a commodity."
He went on to note that industry-wide capacity reduction will occur through both business combinations - he predicted three major carriers as surviving entities - and dissolutions.
Best to all,
Felix
relief tube
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Posts
- 999
There's well over a dozen airline brands, all of which are in this constant battle to keep the others from killing them.
And even if there weren't $49 one way fares and $133 oil, the mere fact that the entire chunk of airline flying over the past 10 years has been divided by now twice as many carriers, everything's now diluted- from the routes to the planes to the schedules. You can only work for 1 airline so the diluting has led to less chance to increase QOL.
And even if there weren't $49 one way fares and $133 oil, the mere fact that the entire chunk of airline flying over the past 10 years has been divided by now twice as many carriers, everything's now diluted- from the routes to the planes to the schedules. You can only work for 1 airline so the diluting has led to less chance to increase QOL.
Champ42272
Better than a J-3 Cub
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Posts
- 69
The "dream is alive" career in the major airline business is entirely a personal decision. But IMHO, there are two ways the industry can go from this point.
Option 1. Fuel prices continue to rise, capacity decreases, and seat prices rise edging out most people from airline travel. The market will determine who can fly, and Greyhound will be back in business carrying those people who can't afford an airline ticket.
Option 2. The government at the behest of millions of low income voters re-regulates the industry. The result, airlines will cover all costs (a la pre-1978), capacity will decrease, and seat prices will rise. Greyhound will be back in business.
Either way the industry cannot keep flying via the current business model.
Prior to de-regulation, the airline industry was a luxury means of travel for the wealthy and business travelers. Life, as in business, is a cycle. We are returning to that part of the cycle.
I do believe however, that once prices rise, pay, benefits, and respect for this career will rise.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Champ 42272
Option 1. Fuel prices continue to rise, capacity decreases, and seat prices rise edging out most people from airline travel. The market will determine who can fly, and Greyhound will be back in business carrying those people who can't afford an airline ticket.
Option 2. The government at the behest of millions of low income voters re-regulates the industry. The result, airlines will cover all costs (a la pre-1978), capacity will decrease, and seat prices will rise. Greyhound will be back in business.
Either way the industry cannot keep flying via the current business model.
Prior to de-regulation, the airline industry was a luxury means of travel for the wealthy and business travelers. Life, as in business, is a cycle. We are returning to that part of the cycle.
I do believe however, that once prices rise, pay, benefits, and respect for this career will rise.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Champ 42272
I was inspired to become an airline pilot for a number of reasons, namely the money, travel and free time.
Pause allowed for laughter to subside........
Ok, I used to read Len Morgan in Flying magazine. He wrote about his life in the airline industry that ended when Braniff folded. Now, my seven years in the industry were terrorist attacks, war, furlough, contract negotiations, went past a 30 day cooling off period, sham airline bankruptcy, more than a year and a half of pure reserve........blah, blah, blah.
I have gone back and re-read some of Len's articles. He wasn't speaking too highly of the industry, but in hindsight I probably thought "what does this guy know anyway"?
I just turned in my stuff for the second time. I spent the last year in the left seat and I think I gained ten years of experience in that time. But, I was making less than I was ten years ago and you know how expensive living is now, I hate to travel and even if I didn't you can't travel on 10 days off.
I have always said I love to fly. Sadly, the airline business is the enemy of a person's love to fly. You fly when, where and how the Man says to do it. I don't know how Pan Am guys were treated, but repeatedly I was treated with so much disrespect by gate agents, crew scheduling and dispatch while constantly barraged with memos from management that further undermined my feeling that I as captain had a say in what was happening ( example, who, how and when you can actually take a lunch break....attendance policies that seemed to defy the admonitions on the back of my medical certificate and so on).
I had a discussion with an FO right before I left. We talked about the things we thought we knew about airline flying before and after we got into it. We both agreed that most people just have to see for themselves. If you do get in, I wish you better luck than I had.
Pause allowed for laughter to subside........
Ok, I used to read Len Morgan in Flying magazine. He wrote about his life in the airline industry that ended when Braniff folded. Now, my seven years in the industry were terrorist attacks, war, furlough, contract negotiations, went past a 30 day cooling off period, sham airline bankruptcy, more than a year and a half of pure reserve........blah, blah, blah.
I have gone back and re-read some of Len's articles. He wasn't speaking too highly of the industry, but in hindsight I probably thought "what does this guy know anyway"?
I just turned in my stuff for the second time. I spent the last year in the left seat and I think I gained ten years of experience in that time. But, I was making less than I was ten years ago and you know how expensive living is now, I hate to travel and even if I didn't you can't travel on 10 days off.
I have always said I love to fly. Sadly, the airline business is the enemy of a person's love to fly. You fly when, where and how the Man says to do it. I don't know how Pan Am guys were treated, but repeatedly I was treated with so much disrespect by gate agents, crew scheduling and dispatch while constantly barraged with memos from management that further undermined my feeling that I as captain had a say in what was happening ( example, who, how and when you can actually take a lunch break....attendance policies that seemed to defy the admonitions on the back of my medical certificate and so on).
I had a discussion with an FO right before I left. We talked about the things we thought we knew about airline flying before and after we got into it. We both agreed that most people just have to see for themselves. If you do get in, I wish you better luck than I had.
HOUMAN
Pool Man
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2002
- Posts
- 114
Good Luck
I take everything I hear on Flt Info with a grain of salt, but about 4 years ago I read a quote on here that made me cringe. It was a response to a thread about the downward spiral of pilot pay. The quote was something like this... "I don't know why you all are complaining about pilot pay. I can't think of very many jobs that offer lots of travel and up to 50K a year without a college degree."
After that I realized that I made the wrong decision to leave active duty. Airline pilots are our own worst enemies. Do you and your family a favor and put your college degree to use.
I take everything I hear on Flt Info with a grain of salt, but about 4 years ago I read a quote on here that made me cringe. It was a response to a thread about the downward spiral of pilot pay. The quote was something like this... "I don't know why you all are complaining about pilot pay. I can't think of very many jobs that offer lots of travel and up to 50K a year without a college degree."
After that I realized that I made the wrong decision to leave active duty. Airline pilots are our own worst enemies. Do you and your family a favor and put your college degree to use.
puddlejumper101
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2005
- Posts
- 436
I agree with your post...except for one thing. Humans have always been pretty resiliant as a society. If something doesn't change then yes we are all doomed as a society...not just aviation but the economy as a whole. I am willing to bet that in five years airplanes will be running on something other than crude being shipped from overseas. The military is already testing synthetic fuels and some companies are testing biofules. When push comes to shove there is always a way. Airlines are fuel consumers like no other companies on Earth. I bet Airplanes will be running on something different soon...it's just a matter of who took advantage of the opportunity and who is left to fly around.
Dumb Pilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2006
- Posts
- 1,570
rod farva
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2004
- Posts
- 145
Ask those ABX guys how secure that cargo job is.
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