Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

the dream gone forever?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Otto77
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 35

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Otto77

Snacko
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Posts
361
Id like to start a serious thread to see what folks thoughts and opinions are for the industry for the foreseeable future? As a military guy that has always wanted to go airlines..it just seems like everything is and has been on a negative trend with nothing positive. Will there be an industry in a large capacity in the next few decades? Will there be a need for pilots? Will everything deteriorate into pilot training programs such as in place in Europe and Asia? Will it ever been a well payed job again? Sorry for the crazy questions but all of this oil reading over the last year has been nothing but a major downer and I see a job that I've always wanted to do disappearing before my eyes here. Thanks for serious thoughts and even for the sarcastic ones I'm sure to get here anyhow!
 
If I was just trying to break into the airlines I'd be jealous of you. I'd kill to have an airline job AND a guard job as a safety net.

People must fly. Question is - on who. That's the answer we'd all like to know.

Good luck bro.

Gup
 
There will always be a need for pilots... the question is who will be doing it for the wages that our economy wants us to pay pilots.... you? me? The chinese?
 
Id like to start a serious thread to see what folks thoughts and opinions are for the industry for the foreseeable future? As a military guy that has always wanted to go airlines..it just seems like everything is and has been on a negative trend with nothing positive. Will there be an industry in a large capacity in the next few decades? Will there be a need for pilots? Will everything deteriorate into pilot training programs such as in place in Europe and Asia? Will it ever been a well payed job again? Sorry for the crazy questions but all of this oil reading over the last year has been nothing but a major downer and I see a job that I've always wanted to do disappearing before my eyes here. Thanks for serious thoughts and even for the sarcastic ones I'm sure to get here anyhow!

FedEx or UPS is the answer.
 
Two words: Fly Boxes!

Honestly, cargo is the only portion of the industry where I see the dream still alive. There are just a couple of major players, and neither is really trying to undercut the other one. They are successfully passing rising operational costs onto the customer, who seems ready to pay in good times and bad. There are higher barriers to entry than passenger flying, which seems to be keeping the LCC cancer out of this sector. Pilots are well compensated, and are holding onto work rules and pay as everyone else has slid.

If I were still in the military and planning an airline career, I would camp out and wait until UPS or FedEx was hiring, and drop my papers once I had an offer from one of those two. As for the passenger sector, just rewrite the above paragraph using the opposite of everything I said positive about cargo, and you pretty much have it.

I don't know how far you are into your military career, but I (and most of my contemporaries) wish that we'd stayed to 20 years.
 
Two words: Fly Boxes!


I don't know how far you are into your military career, but I (and most of my contemporaries) wish that we'd stayed to 20 years.

I fly with guys/gals ALL the time who wish they had

stayed in. If you can do that, do that!

Boxes do seem the way to go. I went the "other"

route because they called first, to be honest!

No regrets but if I could "do over"

FLY BOXES......

DB
 
Otto,

Stay in the military and get your 20 years. No doubt about it. The military pays more, has better benefits, treats you with respect and offers a better QOL. Even if you deploy, it's still better than the airline QOL.

If you're in the ANG/USAFR. Get on with an airline and then take a few years of military.

I've been in your shoes. All I ever wanted was to be a military and airline pilot. I was able to do both.

I've been an airline pilot for 12+ years now. I've been hired, bought, stapled, furloughed and rehired. It's has certainly been interesting. I have never felt so negative about the future of this industry as I do now. It's only going to get worse before it gets better.

I've been an ANG pilot for 14+ years and have never been "furloughed". In the military you will earn the wage, and respect, you deserve.

The first year pay at most airlines is so low that it takes many years to catch back up. That is provided some unknown roadblock doesn't appear, like age 65.

Look around at the airlines. Look at this website and see how many people just bitch about this job, myself included. There's a reason. So many pilots thought they had it made only to be merged and then put on the street. Many have lost there retirement, something that will never happen in the military.

Aviation still has potential. It's just that flying at a pax airline is at the bottom of the potential list right now. That could change, who knows.

Either way, stay in the military and enjoy the security.
 
I honestly feel like I am chasing a pipe dream some days, but other days I think, "hey, this is great."

But, to answer your question the best way I know how, when I first took my first lesson, I never imagined that the industry would be this screwed up, or making it would be this difficult.

With that said, if I ever wake up and think that I would be better off behind a desk I'll either take a header or switch careers. I haven't came anywhere close to that yet. Flying seems to be one of those careers that if you stick around long enough eventually you'll get lucky and land that "dream job." The question is, will that job last and once your there will it be all you imagined it to be?

Good thread, let's try to keep it that way. We're all just "Living the nightmare." :p
 
20 years of active duty isn't for everyone; it certainly wasn't for me. I have no arguments about the benefits; it's one of the best benefit packed retirements left. However, it wasn't worth the cost to me.

The day I saw a friend get notified on Thursday that his 6 month desert vacation left on Sunday, I knew it was time to get out! This fall I made the transition to the USAF reserves and have no regrets. The flying and pay are great. Plus, there is little chance of me being deployed unless I choose to do so.

If 20 years of active duty isn't in the cards, consider the guard or reserves.
 
Unless we take a page from Jefferson's book and CEO's are hanging from lampposts (a la Mussolini...), nothing will get better in this country for the non-privileged class.

The airline pilot has had a target on his back since de-regulation was conceived and their plan is working brilliantly.

Stay in the Guard/Reserves at a minimum and try to find some job that will pay the bills on the outside--either flying or non-flying.

I'd suggest NetJets. Yeah you have to dump toilets but it may be better than working for the airlines and being on the receiving end...TC
 
FedEx and UPS are the only companies where one would still have hope of anything resembling a 1960's-era TWA or Pan Am career. I am talking in regards to pay and stability, obviously not the glamour and the young FA's.

Thirty years after deregulation, the free market has finally caught up with airline organized labor. The delay was caused by the inherent strength of the legacy carriers and the barriers low cost carriers had to entry. The change was accelerated by 911 and the rise of internet ticket clearinghouses and, more recently, the price of oil. The profit margins will never be what they once were. No one union is strong enough to stem this tide.

I am at Delta and am very happy with the job. I've fulfilled a life-long dream. I wonder how many of my high school/college classmates can make that claim? But I've realized that I will probably never live in the house I dreamed of as a kid, or drive the Porsche 911, or fly my warbird on my days off.

Stay in the military.

PS: Don't worry, Yip will chime in here fairly soon and tell you this is still the greatest career in the world.
 
While I don't know much about the major airlines....Id say one CANNOT put all their eggs into one or two baskets anymore if you want to fly for a living..

Be ready to move as the industry does - airlines, Netjets, corporate, etc..the days of getting a job at DAL, missing 1 or 2 furloughs, and retiring rich are pretty much over (unfortunately)

I can tell you that corporate hiring is still pretty strong...that being said, its really a matter of finding a job that fits you.

Good Luck.
 
The airlines career is going down fast. There is nothing positive about it anymore. I got out and I am very glad.
 
While I don't know much about the major airlines....Id say one CANNOT put all their eggs into one or two baskets anymore if you want to fly for a living..

Be ready to move as the industry does - airlines, Netjets, corporate, etc..the days of getting a job at DAL, missing 1 or 2 furloughs, and retiring rich are pretty much over (unfortunately)

I can tell you that corporate hiring is still pretty strong...that being said, its really a matter of finding a job that fits you.

Good Luck.

Pretty sage advice. I have a corporate job that I love. But, I also keep my resume up to date and also have a membership to an aviation website. Because as "G" points out, you just never know what is going to happen in this industry!

All the best in your search! Cheers- Rum
 
My advice, have a backup just in case. The industry is in a shambles. I am making less than what I was making a few years ago, and the costs of living have gone up. Wages haven't kept pace. Unfortunately, we are our own worst enemies. For each pilot job vacated, thee are still another 5-10 awaiting to fill that vacancy and would be willing to do it for less money. We had those who paid for their training and those who are willing to fly for next to nothing. Until, we as pilots, realize we have a skill and a specialty and should be paid appropriately, then pay rates will still be kept low. Every bankruptcy, companies run to the pilot's union and asks for paycuts, and everytime we oblige, and for what? To save our jobs? I was hoping after the last fiasco, we'd learn our lessons, but obviously I doubt that.
Ok enough venting. Have a backup plan. I see so many young kids coming out of the North Dakota, Auburn, Perdue with aviation degrees and nothing else. All they know how to do is fly. But what would happen if the industry went completely bankrupt and thousands upon thousands of jobs were lost. Or even another scenario, and this happened to me. I suffered a serious vision problem and lost my medical for a while. I was not able to keep a medical and was not able to fly. (Luckily this was corrected) Luckily flying is my second career, so I had something to fall back on so I can support my family. So, it's best to have a backup. Also did I mention a wife or a husband who will be supportive of you? This profession has a high divorce rate, right up there with police officers.
But remember there is still good about this job, don't get me wrong. After 10 years and three airlines flying Part 121, it's still fun to look out the window and see where I am, and to see the sights. It's still neat how I can wake up in Portland, Me on morning and find myself in Indianapolis or Atlanta later that night. Also, when I finish work, and go and catch my commute home, I can leave my work behind and not worry. Also, the average 7-4:30 Monday through Friday worker gets on average, 8 1/2 days off per month. I usually get around 14 days off a month. So, I have time during the week to get things done or spend time with the children when I am home.
If we can fix some of the bad, that's fixable, then this profession would be even better.

I am still a night owl and,
And to answer your main question, my dream job is still either UPS or FEDEX.
 
Last edited:
Aviation has started a permanent decline

Anyone who plans to stay in aviation should do themselves a favor and go to the www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net website and read it very carefully. This is not some tree hugger stuff guys, this is science and it is real. The capacity decline is beginning now in the airlines....and it is not going to come back. In all probability it will become to expensive for average people to fly within the next 20 years or so. Aviation by the mid 21st century will likely only be possible for the very rich and the government. I love flying as much as the rest of you but it is time to be realistic about it. Sorry to $hit on your doorstep but reality is now.
 
Hey Otto.

My suggestion would be to leave active duty, find a reserve flying job (ATC is a great option from a lifestyle perspective - no activations, deployments or chem gear), and to pursue a non-pilot civil career. Going back to school to "reblue" your job skills while flying part-time in the reserves might be a component of such a plan...

I am retired ANG (Vipers) and dipped Delta three years ago to attend law school full-time. Going back to school has been great fun (though very honestly a bit of a grind at times) and things are now coming together career-wise. I'm genuinely excited about the future.

My buds who have remained with the airlines have reacted to the implosion of the profession in mixed ways. Those who tend to worry about the future are understandably upset. Those who just take life as it comes are doing OK. You might pause and do a bit of self-assessment to consider how you look at things. If you don't mind externalities holding great sway over your professional and financial future, then you might do well with an airline. If you'd rather exercise some degree of control over your destiny and rely more upon your own wits, then I'd recommend seeking something outside the cockpit.

Obviously I was of the latter mindset and have been very happy with my decision to seek a alternative career.

Regardless the path you choose, best of luck.

Regards,

Felix
 

Latest resources

Back
Top