the dream gone forever?

[Gulfstream 200]

Just go to where they are still paying good money to do the gig, I say

There is something to be said for this simple statement.

and its not in the domestic passenger ops - not at $130 Oil...

not good.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I agree with your post...except for one thing. Humans have always been pretty resiliant as a society. If something doesn't change then yes we are all doomed as a society...not just aviation but the economy as a whole. I am willing to bet that in five years airplanes will be running on something other than crude being shipped from overseas. The military is already testing synthetic fuels and some companies are testing biofules. When push comes to shove there is always a way. Airlines are fuel consumers like no other companies on Earth. I bet Airplanes will be running on something different soon...it's just a matter of who took advantage of the opportunity and who is left to fly around.

you are completely right. In two years we will have electric cars, and in three we will have hydrogen cars that are completely renewable. we don't need to be completely off oil we need just to reduce demand for it and as time goes by we wont need oil. I know we going to run out oil someday, but i find it hard to believe that we are just going sit by and let our world implode. If all the peak oil stuff happens last thing we need to worry about is what job or degree you have.

 

[goodgig]

At some point in the future, it will be TRAINS.
As soon as we learn how to build a decent rail system.
May be 3, 5 or 35 years from now, but it will happen.
Mag-lev, nuclear power plants, the whole deal.

 

[Marty Moose]

Jeezus...after reading this I'm thinking of quitting and going into the military.

Good the USAF needs Instructors to fly 172's in Iraq for 365 days at a time. I am not sure how to say, "Aimpoint, Airspeed, more left wing down & right rudder for the crosswind" in Arabic, but I am sure they will teach you. I know a couple people there right now that can't wait for you to get there and replace them. Let's keep some perspective people and not forget we are still fighting two wars and a lot of people are not around to kiss their kids. The retirement and benefits are great, but you definitely earn them after 20 years.

 

[Captain X]

what is your definition of "dream" job

(yes, I am serious)

One that involves many erotic situations with the girl in your avatar.

(yes, I am serious)

 

[Swass]

At some point in the future, it will be TRAINS.
As soon as we learn how to build a decent rail system.
May be 3, 5 or 35 years from now, but it will happen.
Mag-lev, nuclear power plants, the whole deal.

I knew it was only a matter of time before "Mag-Lev" came up....

 

[Vegaspilot99]

I think AVRO FO hit it pretty much right on the head for me. I love to fly and have wanted to be an airline pilot my entire life. But right now I'm pretty burnt out on flying. My desire to go to a major is all but gone and the lifestyle I thought I'd like, it turns out I hate. I like being home every night. Even though the flying job I have now allows that, I'm still thinking about doing something else in electronics/computers for a while and just flying part time to see how it feels. After growing up in a TWA family and seeing what it was, it's quite the downer to see where it is now. I'm going to finish up my degree...finally, and go from there. Good luck to all.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is not the job.
My father-in-law lost his business after 9/11. Home Depot moved all of their suppliers to Mexico. He lost his big contracts and everything went South. It sucks trying to start over at 56 years old. Same here. Our Issues is our ease of new pilots entering the industry and our ability to work for multiple companies. Make ones seniority list and give us all the ability to move around and sell our services like a Dr. or Lawyer can do, and we will see a huge increase in QOL, and longevity of this job.
Problem is now we are tied to a company that the hedge fund managers and our managers play with for a few years and then dump. We should not be penalized for this. If this happens in the normal world, you just get another job. Generally at equal or better pay. You have skills and experience that demands that. we do to.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Just go to where they are still paying good money to do the gig, I say

Ah, just like that eh? How many years have most of us had applications at UPS/FDX anyway? I've almost lost count....

 

[freight dork]

Ah, just like that eh? How many years have most of us had applications at UPS/FDX anyway? I've almost lost count....

Think outside of the box. UPS/FDX aren't the only good jobs in the world. There are plenty of good paying jobs overseas. Going rate for ATR and CRJ capts hovers around $10,000/month and more for larger equipment. I'd recommend a flying job outside of the USA to anybody who can do it. There is a serious shortage of qualified airline capts all over the world (excluding the USA) and airlines that are willing to pay well for experienced pilots. Personally I'm planning on staying mobile and chasing the cash and enjoying the adventure for the forseeable future.

 

[atafan]

Dream Job?

Mariah Carey's lotion boy! Oh wait, this thread was about flying airplanes, nevermind. Forgive me I haven't been here for a week. Airline Dream Job? That ended for me when Pan Am shut down in 91'. I should have quit then but I still had hope.

I have discovered that my QOC has been so much better without an airline to think about. I could even smoke a large one if I wanted to but I don't even know where to buy it.

Love ya, mean it!

 

[Pickle]

ATA stopped flying April 3 2008.

So did I.

I'd rather be home and see my wife and kids than chase some flying job all over the world. Lots of people going to India and Japan and Korea. Good for them (no, really!!) but that ain't for me. I don't want to be gone for 2 months, then home 1, no matter WHAT it pays. My kids cried when they saw that suitcase and pilot case come out before trips. "Kids get over that", you say??? Well, why should they have to go through it in the first place, I say.

To each his own, if you want to keep chasing that airline job, then good luck to you, and I hope you get it.

Keep in mind - FedEx just dropped their guarantee to 66 hours didn't they?? Aren't they overstaffed now with the 72 retirements being stepped up??? Didn't they end up NOT getting that Europe mail contract, and now no Paris domicile??? Can't get people to go to HKG??? UPS taking over ASTAR flying???

I don't even think cargo is the place to be these days.

Nope, I have come to terms with this myself, and I am fine with it. We all have our limits, and I have reached mine.

Good luck to you though........

 

[satpak77]

ATA stopped flying April 3 2008.

So did I.

I'd rather be home and see my wife and kids than chase some flying job all over the world. Lots of people going to India and Japan and Korea. Good for them (no, really!!) but that ain't for me. I don't want to be gone for 2 months, then home 1, no matter WHAT it pays. My kids cried when they saw that suitcase and pilot case come out before trips. "Kids get over that", you say??? Well, why should they have to go through it in the first place, I say.

To each his own, if you want to keep chasing that airline job, then good luck to you, and I hope you get it.

Keep in mind - FedEx just dropped their guarantee to 66 hours didn't they?? Aren't they overstaffed now with the 72 retirements being stepped up??? Didn't they end up NOT getting that Europe mail contract, and now no Paris domicile??? Can't get people to go to HKG??? UPS taking over ASTAR flying???

I don't even think cargo is the place to be these days.

Nope, I have come to terms with this myself, and I am fine with it. We all have our limits, and I have reached mine.

Good luck to you though........

God Bless you. Not many guys of your caliber my friend. I agree with 100% of what you said.

 

[Aluminum Weiner]

As my anxiety increased to find stability, I started seriously looking into Vietnam & Dubai. The more I perused these avenues the more anxiety I experienced due to the fact I'd be moving. I woke up one day and thought, what the heii am I doing? Dubai & Vietnam weren't in the cards 18 years ago when I started playing this game. I've had shots at the two top companies and was shot down. I gave them everything I had. It killed me as equal counterparts got hired. Finally got on with a LCC and taking it in the a$$ now with all the instability and low pay. Fortunately, I made a killing in real estate and it's my ticket out. Time is of the essence to make the retirement dream come true & I'm not going to fail at this one. The only logical way to make it happen is to get out of aviation and invest in our successful family business. The aviation dream today is a myth, and a waste of time... Unless your one of the lucky ones. I'm not a betting man when it comes to retirement. I'm putting my time into something else & that dream is alive. I've had enough of this BS man. Enough

By the way... I hate waiting for those dang hotel vans

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

I have been considering trying the move up to a major for a while. But my biggest concern in interviewing anywhere is figuring out how to convince them I have any enthusiasm left at all. I mean, is there really anything left to be a cause of enthusiasm? I think part of me would want to reach out and punch one of the interviewers just for expecting me to fake such utter nonsense. That would probably be bad.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Quite interesting the mental perspective...

We think of the good ol days.... as well... good. Were they?

I posit that too many of us recall how great we thought this career was..... not how it really was....

There are guys at the aviation colleges paying hugh amounts of money. They believe that all the stereotypes about this job... still exist... the days off, the money, the sexy FA's etc....

And that is what we recall.

In the good ol days the chief pilot decided how close one must live to the domicle. There was no commuting. Pilots moved often with the summer and winter seasons. There were always furloughs. And guys like EL Cord and Lorenzo...

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopMo...sView.aspx?itemid=899&ModuleId=1274&Tabid=251

Many pilots simply don't know the history of this job. It was never fantastic... or as wonderful was we want to believe... We just want to think that way about the past... romanticize it, etc... And of course we look negatively on the future... because it is an unknown....

 

[goodgig]

So Pickle, what's your plan B?

 

[atlcrashpad]

The Dream is still alive......

Go out and live the dream...... bouyyyyyy....

 

[pilotyip]

Still living the dream

PS: Don't worry, Yip will chime in here fairly soon and tell you this is still the greatest career in the world.

Only if you have wanted to be a pilot since you first saw an airplane, if you are in it for pay..........disappointed (see below)

 

[hockeypilot44]

In today's world, you can go from no experience, no education, and no money to regional jet first officer in less than two years. The flight academies in Florida have made this possible. This has oversaturated the market increasing supply thus reducing demand. This has caused our pay to plummit. There are other factors also like our seniority system. I see a lot of pilots out of work in the next few years. The one's still working will not be able to improve working conditions due to all the pilots on the street waiting to take their jobs. Thus the cycle will continue.

 

[UALjan15]

In today's world, you can go from no experience, no education, and no money to regional jet first officer in less than two years. The flight academies in Florida have made this possible. This has oversaturated the market increasing supply thus reducing demand. This has caused our pay to plummit. There are other factors also like our seniority system. I see a lot of pilots out of work in the next few years. The one's still working will not be able to improve working conditions due to all the pilots on the street waiting to take their jobs. Thus the cycle will continue.

Off the mark. Pay at the regionals has always sucked (show me how it has recently "plumitted"). It used to be bad pay for flying a Brasilia or Saab, but the market dynamics pushed those pilots into RJs, and no one was able to set a high bar for the wages on this flying. This has little to do with the flight academies in FL, who are just training pilots to the jobs in the marketplace, which aren't really entry-level jobs skillwise. It has more to do with the major's successful strategy of whipsawing the regionals against each other for small jet contracts.

Your last point sort of hits the mark, as out-of-work pilots make fertile ground for startups like Skybus and VA to come in a set a new low for pilot pay. This puts significant downward pressure on everyone else in contract negotiations.

 

[SSDD]

It seems people say dream, but they mean $$$$$$$. If you want to fly airplanes and make a decent living, that's still possible. If you're thinking of working 6 days a month, making a million $, and having 20 year old flight attendants cream their pants at the sight of your uniform, well that's just a fantasy

 

[Pickle]

So Pickle, what's your plan B?

I'll know for sure when I get the official job offer letter from the place, but they did send me home with a benefits package and W4 to fill out, and they have asked me to choose a start date so they can properly fill out the offer letter.

I will say that it is aviation related, but I will be home every night......







Ok, ok..... I am going to be the new VP of FLight Deck Hosing at UAL.

 

[fly4unclesam]

So what do you guys recommend for someone who is active duty military, approaching his 20 in a couple of years, and wondering if he should retire and try the airline thing or stay in the military past 20? Obviously, if I stay, I will continue to make good money and continue to increase my pension every year. On the downside, there is a good chance I may be forced out of the cockpit into a desk job. If I retire, my pension will definetly help offset the low pay but, as Otto said in his initial post, I hear so much negative on board that I am wondering if the career is worth it.

 

[ip241au]

Fly4unclesam,

If you stay past 20, crunch the numbers and determine what it will increase your pension.

If you stay until 24 years, it will probably mean an additional $10K a year in pension for the rest of your life assuming an annual pay raise that has been about 3% per year for the active duty the last 10 years. Maybe you will get promoted=more pension.

GI benefits are going to rise, this increases the value of your military benefits. If you get a desk job, learn a new skill.

Contrary to what a lot of folks think, there are some very well paying jobs out there that don't involve flying airplanes. Stick it out, you will never regret it.

 

[727C47]

So what do you guys recommend for someone who is active duty military, approaching his 20 in a couple of years, and wondering if he should retire and try the airline thing or stay in the military past 20? Obviously, if I stay, I will continue to make good money and continue to increase my pension every year. On the downside, there is a good chance I may be forced out of the cockpit into a desk job. If I retire, my pension will definetly help offset the low pay but, as Otto said in his initial post, I hear so much negative on board that I am wondering if the career is worth it.[/quote

follow your gut,please don't make a life decision based on a FI board,PM me if you want to talk about it,cheers amigo !

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Having put 19 years in then losing it to stupid management and losing my pension to boot...Stay in or quit all together.

 

[SFR]

Actually I think it has been a great career, so far. I have been blessed with not being furloughed and going to CAL in 2005.

All in all, compared to my parent's jobs I have a great one. It is all how you approach it.

If you commute that is added unnecessary stress and will piss you off, it did me.

Move to a base if you can!!! It will help a lot!!!

 

[Wankel7]

So what do you guys recommend for someone who is active duty military, approaching his 20 in a couple of years, and wondering if he should retire and try the airline thing or stay in the military past 20? Obviously, if I stay, I will continue to make good money and continue to increase my pension every year. On the downside, there is a good chance I may be forced out of the cockpit into a desk job. If I retire, my pension will definetly help offset the low pay but, as Otto said in his initial post, I hear so much negative on board that I am wondering if the career is worth it.

Take a look at fractional flying....

 

[waveflyer]

Get your 20- that's a no brainer at this point. after that-avoid the legacies, they sold out a long time ago-- but great jobs exist in the corporate world on a case by case basis, netjets is not your father's execjet- that's a good job; Fedex, UPS speak for themselves- SWA- get the type-nothing but upside for them; international jobs can be good- just do the research... just stay away from the legacies and most jobs are still pretty good... You're in a great position- just don't leave for anything that's not a great job-- FDX/UPS/SWA/NetJets...
Good luck