The Bashing Begins

[HOMER D POE]

methinks you're on to something....over 40...never flew..wanna be pilot... from the pattern to a Q...recipe for well...what happened... there aren't any comebacks...no excuses...he had no business in a left seat of anything but a cherokee...

 

[Salukipilot4590]

so i guess a dr who inadvertently kills someone shoudlnt be allowed to practice-- how may times have the wrong limbs been amputated?

and a lawyer who allows a guilty man free and a not guilty man jailed should be disbarred?

and tilton who loses billions shoulde be fired?


GMAFB.


SKIPPY

Umm...yes... I do believe those things should happen...then again I live in an imaginary world...

 

[ehaecker]

methinks you're on to something....over 40...never flew..wanna be pilot... from the pattern to a Q...recipe for well...what happened... there aren't any comebacks...no excuses...he had no business in a left seat of anything but a cherokee...

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. Look for more accidents like this to happen as more and more 250 hour wonders become captains.

 

[crj567]

So you are saying it is OK to fail 5 check rides? Sure I can understand busting the CFI for 8's on or whatever, but 5 checkrides???
In this industry, we are trained to detect a chain of events (mistakes), and break that chain before it leads to an accident. I would say 5 failures is a good start to that chain...
If my opinion makes me a Yeager or Hoover, fine. We need more Yeagers and Hoovers.

No, the fact that you have managed to fly all grandad's planes (Pitts, Stearman, Blah, and Blah, and Blah) on the weekend makes you a Yeager/Hoover. (BTW-it has been a while since I have seen a jet with a tailwheel-so who the hell cares?)

The fact that you have identified yourself as an "RJ FO" makes you a Neil Armstrong/Buzz Aldrin.

The fact that you show up to work with spikey hair, an I-Pod and little blinking wheels on your roll-a-board just makes you a tool.....

-Go back to "nick-at-nite" and leave your daddy's computer alone!

 

[crj567]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. Look for more accidents like this to happen as more and more 250 hour wonders become captains.

Kinda tough to even qualify for type ride with 250 hours, but oh well; facts don't matter here.....

 

[Smacktard]

Kinda tough to even qualify for type ride with 250 hours, but oh well; facts don't matter here.....

Key word in the original quote was 'become'...

 

[flynryan15]

The crap thing here is the FAA had a bullseye on Colgan for pencil whipping crew records. Some how I think it is all going to take a back seat to this and not get the media attention it deserves!

 

[AEROSQUADRON69]

Does this open Colgan contract for bids?

 

[701EV]

Where did he get original flight training?

701EV

 

[hockeypilot44]

This does not surprise me. The last three regional crashes (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan) have all had a former Gulfstream International Airlines' pilot in one of the seats. These companies decided to hire pilots with lower qualifications and sacrifice safety rather than raise compensation. Now they act surprised when under-qualified pilots make serious mistakes and kill innocent people. Where do you think the naked MDT pilot worked before Pinnacle? Gulfstream Airlines. This is the type of pilot that has been coming out of that scab outfit for years. The FAA should have shut it down a long time ago. What kind of airline puts car parts on its airplanes? Rant over. I just have to accept that any moron with a few bucks can fly an airline these days. Not safely, but they can fly an airliner.

 

[Browntothebone]

This does not surprise me. The last three regional crashes (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan) have all had a former Gulfstream International Airlines' pilot in one of the seats. These companies decided to hire pilots with lower qualifications and sacrifice safety rather than raise compensation. Now they act surprised when under-qualified pilots make serious mistakes and kill innocent people. Where do you think the naked MDT pilot worked before Pinnacle? Gulfstream Airlines. This is the type of pilot that has been coming out of that scab outfit for years. The FAA should have shut it down a long time ago. What kind of airline puts car parts on its airplanes? Rant over. I just have to accept that any moron with a few bucks can fly an airline these days. Not safely, but they can fly an airliner.

Thats just a coincidince. All the majors have Gulfsteam graduates flying for them.

 

[SEVEN]

This does not surprise me. The last three regional crashes (Pinnacle, Comair, and Colgan) have all had a former Gulfstream International Airlines' pilot in one of the seats. These companies decided to hire pilots with lower qualifications and sacrifice safety rather than raise compensation. Now they act surprised when under-qualified pilots make serious mistakes and kill innocent people. Where do you think the naked MDT pilot worked before Pinnacle? Gulfstream Airlines. This is the type of pilot that has been coming out of that scab outfit for years. The FAA should have shut it down a long time ago. What kind of airline puts car parts on its airplanes? Rant over. I just have to accept that any moron with a few bucks can fly an airline these days. Not safely, but they can fly an airliner.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I've been preaching this for some time now. Many people died in that Colgan crash because a pilot allowed and airplane to get too slow and fall out of the sky with an inapropriate stall recovery technique. This is very disturbing when a perfectly good airplane with all of those innocent people crashes from something so basic. An "experienced" airline captain allows the airplane to slow to the point of stall. This is Flying 101.
Unfortunetly, the Gulfstream Academy pilot group are tainting our regional airline industry. These crashes should not be a surprise when you take a good look at the pilot's training and background.
Sadly, I don't think much will change.

 

[skiandsurf]

Unfortunately I think this accident shows that recent up and coming pilots are not getting "seasoned" enough. Years ago you really had to pay your dues if you wanted to make it even to a good regional flying turboprops. Normally someone would spend years instructing then they maybe would move on to charter, banner towing, freight, etc. After acummulating around 3000 hours you would be competitive for a good regional. Then it might be another few years before you upgraded. What you saw in the last few years was new pilots instructing a bit and then heading straight to the right seat of a big complex turboprop or regional jet. I have lost count of how many FOs I have flown with in the last few years that have that type of background. A lot of them are good pilots and can handle the airplane fine but frankly there are times when it is painfully obvious that they are not seasoned pilots. There is no substitute for good ole fashioned hours and experience. I don't care what high priced school you went to. I agree that 5 failures is a lot considering the length of this captain's career. I would argue that perhaps his failures weren't always necessarily due to incompetence, but rather simply taking on more than he should of.

Agree with all of this.

When I came up (back in the day), all regionals required 2500TT and 200MT. Instructed for 3 years. Hired into a Jetstream 31. FO for 3 yrs. I didnt fly my first jet until I had 9000 hours.

Sure the times have changed, but experience is too important.

As far as failures go, I have heard of lots of BS failures.....not making a required (CRJ) FMA call (LOC), (A320)...Q... "what does the cabin oxygen deploy button do? " A..." drops the masks....you know the rubber jungle"...failed....the button "sends a signal to deploy the masks".

My point is...anyone can fail. These are stories I have heard of from good guys. But for 1 guy to have 5 failures in his first 3000hrs...thats probably not a good sign.

From day 1 of this crash, I compared it with the ACA J41 in CMH. Those pilots were "weak". Captain had problems in training, and the FO was very low time.

Give me a 10,000 hr guy with a couple of failures, over a 3000 hr guy with straight A's.

 

[hangar7guy]

Two or more sides to every story

And why did he fail? Piloting skills? Maybe not.

A lot of Capt. checkrides are flunked these days for "crew management" issues. Perhaps he had a weak F/O that sim day and they couldn't get stuff done. Don't automatically assume a failed airline checkride is due to lack of stick and rudder skills.

Yes, things happen that don't reflect flying skills. In fact, they have happened to me.

When I worked for an FBO with a 135 operation, I kept bugging the owner for more charter time. I had done plenty of instructing in their flight school and wanted to move up. 'Trouble was, said owner (who was also the Chief Pilot & examiner) had a couple of friends whose kids wanted charter time too, so in order to silence me he gave me an impossible ILS approach involving a 45 vector to final AT the marker -- with a tailwind (I kid you not) and then flunked me when I blew through final. I could see what was happening, but he insisted on working the radio and wouldn't allow me to ask to be revectored. It was the checkride from hell.

Long story made short: I ended up back in the flight school, instructing, and the rich kids got the charter jobs. How convenient.

I'm not saying that the Flight 3407 captain got a raw deal like this, but failures can be used as a personnel management tool by a vindictive boss. So don't be too quick to assume that someone who flunks a ride is incompetent.

 

[Browntothebone]

Yes, things happen that don't reflect flying skills. In fact, they have happened to me.

When I worked for an FBO with a 135 operation, I kept bugging the owner for more charter time. I had done plenty of instructing in their flight school and wanted to move up. 'Trouble was, said owner (who was also the Chief Pilot & examiner) had a couple of friends whose kids wanted charter time too, so in order to silence me he gave me an impossible ILS approach involving a 45 vector to final AT the marker -- with a tailwind (I kid you not) and then flunked me when I blew through final. I could see what was happening, but he insisted on working the radio and wouldn't allow me to ask to be revectored. It was the checkride from hell.

Long story made short: I ended up back in the flight school, instructing, and the rich kids got the charter jobs. How convenient.

I'm not saying that the Flight 3407 captain got a raw deal like this, but failures can be used as a personnel management tool by a vindictive boss. So don't be too quick to assume that someone who flunks a ride is incompetent.

Want some cheese to go with your whine?