The Bashing Begins

[Secret Squirrel]

never mind, bad taste.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

never mind, bad taste.

Nothings in bad taste on Flight info.

 

[LJ45]

too many failures and we see the results. Sad !!

 

[flynryan15]

Well I am glad Mark or Mike what's his nuts a former corporate pilot just cleared up how sub standard and $hity are training is in the regional industry!!! Funny my initial sim instructor at ExpressJet wrote flight safety's light twin and Kingair training program.

 

[SEVEN]

the overall trend was too great to not notice.

This is the truth. Too bad nothing will be done about it. You CAN'T buy experience in this industry. Nothing can take the place of years and years of growing and gaining valuable flying experience in all types of situations. I cringe when I see 19 year old FO's in the right seat with 13 hours of Multi and 252 hours total. It's just not right.
But sadly, when "the folks" demand $149 round trip from JFK to LAX, the entire industry suffers.
Lots of blame to go around. I would rather work on fixing the problem. Increase hiring requirements. Not as easy as it sounds though.

 

[DashCojones]

If what I'm hearing is true, it makes me want to bash my head against a wall. 5 failures? I don't care who you are, that is a disturbing trend. The FAA won't change anything, for doing so will be admitting that their minimums aren't good enough after all.

 

[blzr]

so i guess a dr who inadvertently kills someone shoudlnt be allowed to practice-- how may times have the wrong limbs been amputated?

and a lawyer who allows a guilty man free and a not guilty man jailed should be disbarred?

and tilton who loses billions shoulde be fired?


GMAFB.


SKIPPY

Good piont, but no. If a Doctor screws the pooch, only ONE person dies. If we screw up, usually, everybody dies!

 

[SEVEN]

Colgan 3407 CVR Transcript

http://www.ntsb.gov/dockets/aviation/dca09ma027/418693.pdf

 

[JoeMerchant]

It will be interesting to see how ALPA handles this....The experience level has been ignored for far too long....

 

[Mongolikecandy]

28 December 1978 - United Airlines Flight 173; a flight simulator instructor Captain allowed his Douglas DC-8 to run out of fuel while investigating a landing gear problem.

Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 near Miami, Florida on December 29, 1972. The pilot, co-pilot, and Flight Engineer had become fixated on a faulty landing gear light and had failed to realize that the autopilot had disconnected

31 August 1988 - Delta Air Lines Flight 1141 crashed on takeoff after the crew forgot to deploy the flaps

American Airlines Flight 1420 in Little Rock, 1 June 1999

All of these accidents were blamed on pilot error, all of them at the majors and with pilots with lots and lots of experience.

My point is that it is really easy to criticize dead pilots and the decisions they made or did not make from the comfort of a computer. (not my intention by posting the above stats) No matter how much experience a pilot has, anyone can have a sh*itty day. Unfortunately in our profession a bad day at the office can mean the lives of dozens or hundreds of people.

All that being said, I would rather fly with someone who has more experience flying than someone with very little. It would appear that complacency and inexperience likely played a roll in the Colgan crash and it likely should have been averted. However, all of us have had discussions below 10,000 ft. All of us have been distracted at one time or another. (though likely not to the point in this incident)

Hopefully this incident is something we can all learn from. Hopefully training will improve to prevent these sorts of things from happening and maybe our standards for pilot hiring will improve.

God speed to the families of the victims and the pilots.

 

[outsidethecloud]

I hate it when pilots throw young pilots under the bus just because of their age. During this last hiring boom I flew with two guys that were 21 and 20 and I would take those two anytime over the majority of the other hires for both their professionalism and piloting skills. As I think we have seen here, age does not equal experience or skill.

 

[ehaecker]

Yes I agree with the comment from the last guy about you.....YOUR a RJ FO with 2000 hours.

1.) You're, not your

2.) What does it matter? I got Hired with 1300, thats like 1000 more than most people lately.

But you are right, because I am un-lucky enough to be on reserve and not fly 1000 hours a year, I don't know what I'm talking about. You must be Sully himself. Congratulations.

 

[ehaecker]

-There is no doubt you went to 'riddle. I'm pretty sure they issue those little "blinky wheels" for your roll-a-boards down there. Do you have a class ring with a similar blinky function?
-Cute....

HAHAHA! You think that because I am young that I fit into that stereotype young Riddle kid group. I learned how to fly at a local FBO, all part 61, from real instructors, not newly minted, cookie stamped CFI's from some big academy.

I guess that = Riddle in your ignorant mind...

 

[ehaecker]

Yea I'm saying it's ok to fail 5 check rides. Especially when the training is sub standard and not enough. Look if your going to hire someone a bit slower or someone with less experience you need to train them properly not cheaply.

Oh, and I agree 100% with this. Makes you wonder why he was hired at all.

 

[blzr]

CNN just had a guy on that hit on PAY issues. He said something like "if the pay and benefits are not there, you can't hire quality pilots." Now, I agree and sorta disagree. I agree that if pay and benefits are higher, you will attract better pilots. Actually you wil attract MORE pilots and your interview process will (should) weed out most of the bad apples. I disagree because MOST of the pilot applicants in todays market are there because they want to be there and are hoping to move on to the majors or a good corporate gig later on. AND, most of them are fine pilots.

 

[Browntothebone]

If what I'm hearing is true, it makes me want to bash my head against a wall. 5 failures? I don't care who you are, that is a disturbing trend. The FAA won't change anything, for doing so will be admitting that their minimums aren't good enough after all.

I agree. The FAA should force all regional pilots to take 709 rides to prove there competency in the RJ and in basic flying skills. If they don't pass, revoke there lisence permanently.

 

[blzr]

Does the fact that Colgan trained the pilot, and allowed him to fly as PIC open them up to legal action? The way it is being portrayed, Colgan will get destroyed in court for Gross Negligence. The way things are going, some judge may allow a hate crime to be thrown in as well!!

 

[ehaecker]

CNN just had a guy on that hit on PAY issues. He said something like "if the pay and benefits are not there, you can't hire quality pilots." Now, I agree and sorta disagree. I agree that if pay and benefits are higher, you will attract better pilots. Actually you wil attract MORE pilots and your interview process will (should) weed out most of the bad apples. I disagree because MOST of the pilot applicants in todays market are there because they want to be there and are hoping to move on to the majors or a good corporate gig later on. AND, most of them are fine pilots.

I think "Sully" said something about this. a couple months ago.
You're right though. It will help attract more people, which gives a greater probability of the applicants being good pilots. That doesn't mean current lowly regional pilots aren't good pilots, though.

 

[blzr]

I agree. The FAA should force all regional pilots to take 709 rides to prove there competency in the RJ and in basic flying skills. If they don't pass, revoke there lisence permanently.

But ANY major airline pilot that busts a 709 ride gets additional trining and returnes to the line!

 

[Kaman]

So, much for the CJC upgrade interview program...I hope that is also discuessed at the hearing. I never agreed with that, and always felt you hired people that had command potential when newly-hired. And, thats NOT a function of flight time, type ratings or method/location of training.