The Bashing Begins

[time builder]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30683954/

"The newspaper found that Renslow had failed in his first attempt to qualify as a co-pilot in the Beech-1900 aircraft and he had to re-do his check-ride to upgrade to captain of a Saab 340-TurboProp. Colgan's spokesman told the Journal that the company believes Renslow failed to fully disclose that poor performance when applying for a job."


Just passing on info at this point.

 

[ehaecker]

GA or not, 5 busts is absolutely unacceptable. Checkrides aren't hard to pass. They test to minimum standards. If you fail to meet minimum standards - 5 times, perhaps you aren't cut out to be a pilot, let alone a professional pilot.
Perhaps that is the problem with "zero to hero" puppy mills. They train for a checkride. Nothing more, nothing less. The ability to pass a checkride is a very small part of what is required to be a good pilot. Unfortunately, academy students cheat themselves out of any chance to learn from a truly old and wise pilot. It is babies teaching babies.

 

[MEXICANFLYBOY]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30683954/

"The newspaper found that Renslow had failed in his first attempt to qualify as a co-pilot in the Beech-1900 aircraft and he had to re-do his check-ride to upgrade to captain of a Saab 340-TurboProp. Colgan's spokesman told the Journal that the company believes Renslow failed to fully disclose that poor performance when applying for a job."


Just passing on info at this point.

thanks for the info! its kind of hard to believe! the NTSB report out yet?

 

[FO 4 Life]

GA or not, 5 busts is absolutely unacceptable. Checkrides aren't hard to pass. They test to minimum standards. If you fail to meet minimum standards - 5 times, perhaps you aren't cut out to be a pilot, let alone a professional pilot.

Let's say 1 CFI bust since it's what 70-90% fail depending on where you are. 1 for a screwing up an approach or 8's on pylons who knows. Busting a captain upgrade - I've seen a captain bust for forgetting to tell the "ground crew" to disconnect the GPU before pushing or for misidentifying a hung start as a hot start. CRM doesn't really exist for type rides. I've seen a 20 yr UPS captain bust a PC. Things happen.

The more I think the more I come up with. A guy busted his type ride in a 727 for dragging an outboard flap/wingtip on landing. The DE even said he knew it was a sim glitch but had to bust him anyway.

I guess everyone here has the last name Yeager or Hoover.

 

[ehaecker]

So you are saying it is OK to fail 5 check rides? Sure I can understand busting the CFI for 8's on or whatever, but 5 checkrides???
In this industry, we are trained to detect a chain of events (mistakes), and break that chain before it leads to an accident. I would say 5 failures is a good start to that chain...
If my opinion makes me a Yeager or Hoover, fine. We need more Yeagers and Hoovers.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah, but even Yeager ran his P-51 off of the runway. Sh!t happens. I'm against the puppy mills but I'm also not perfect. I honestly feel bad for the guy, his crew, and his family, the vultures are circling.

 

[Baronman]

Not directly related to the Colgan accident but come on...There are lots of people in this career that shouldn't be here but are because they were friendly, had a good attitude and could pay the training costs. Fail a checkride, retrain, good to go to the next level and do it again....Then when regionals need bodies they get into a 121 job.

You've never been in the sim with a partner who couldn't quite get a V1 cut down? Or the single engine landing to mins ended up with the plane banking like hell to get aligned at the last minute? I mean...we know the engine failiure/fire is about to happen in the sim yet they still can't quite get the plane in a satisfactory position. Over and over....But eventually they get it to come out "satisfactorily." You're telling me the day when it really happens, when they have no idea it's coming, that same guy is going to nail it? I'd put my money on the guy who could do it in the sim the first time.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If the shake up in the Colgan Training Dept. is any indication, they're going to take a big hit on this one.

 

[ehaecker]

They said the guy had been at Colgan since 2005. Since he went through a puppy mill, that means he was probably just a student pilot in 2004. That means he has failed a checkride every year since he has been a pilot. That should raise anybody's eyebrow. That many failures over such a short period of time would indicate that his failures were more than just a simple case of s**t happens.

 

[V-1]

Welcome to the future of the aviation industry.

 

[LearLove]

not that it matters but,

Yeah, but even Yeager ran his P-51 off of the runway.

I may be wrong but I think it was a T-6 down in GA somewhere (5 or more years ago) and it went off the side of the runway (and ground looped - strong x-wind). Or do you know of another incident?

 

[Morettis]

The only checkride I've ever failed was my first multi engine stage check back when I had all of 70 hours probably. In the 3000+ hours since then I've passed every one on the first try including my single pilot type ride in the Metro. There's just no excuse for screwin 5 checkrides, they aren't hard, you know exactly what you're going to have to do and exactly whats expected of you well before you ever get near the plane.

Isn't this the exact reason that PRIA was created for? Whats the point if airlines don't care?

 

[veneratio]

5 is way way way too much.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Unfortunately I think this accident shows that recent up and coming pilots are not getting "seasoned" enough. Years ago you really had to pay your dues if you wanted to make it even to a good regional flying turboprops. Normally someone would spend years instructing then they maybe would move on to charter, banner towing, freight, etc. After acummulating around 3000 hours you would be competitive for a good regional. Then it might be another few years before you upgraded. What you saw in the last few years was new pilots instructing a bit and then heading straight to the right seat of a big complex turboprop or regional jet. I have lost count of how many FOs I have flown with in the last few years that have that type of background. A lot of them are good pilots and can handle the airplane fine but frankly there are times when it is painfully obvious that they are not seasoned pilots. There is no substitute for good ole fashioned hours and experience. I don't care what high priced school you went to. I agree that 5 failures is a lot considering the length of this captain's career. I would argue that perhaps his failures weren't always necessarily due to incompetence, but rather simply taking on more than he should of.

 

[V-1]

Just prior to age 65 the industry was hiring three hundred hour pilots who had been trained by three hundred hour pilots. There's a veritable cornucopia of experience and knowledge from which to learn.