The Avros are gone!

[MesabaDriver]

Yes it certainly does. I dont understand how someone can get on here and be so negative and preach to all us and be so critical when an individual has be so selfish and self serving in the past. I mean telling a probationary FO to go to his room and wait to hear from him and then call the CP on him? Come on. How can you even take anything that individual says into mind without wondering if that individual is a sell out like they have proven so many times before. Probally the same reason that an individual runs their mouth so much during the last contract session. They have nothing else in life to do. They are miserable because the blew other airlinne interivews ie NW and UAL, and now they see the writing on the wall. I dont know maybe I have it all wrong.

 

[Towelie]

Oh, ... the times change but never your "as long as I get mine" attitude.

P.S. "YOU'RE WRONG !!!"

DTW RB? Not me. Not even DTW based. DetoXJ refers to Detox, not Detroit. Guess again.

I stand by my original statement. Everyone knows who you are.

 

[xjlifer]

This is not the same guy that got the prob F.O. fired cause he thought it might have been a little under 12 hours and he saw him with a glass of wine?

 

[pilot4nwa]

This is not the same guy that got the prob F.O. fired cause he thought it might have been a little under 12 hours and he saw him with a glass of wine?

Try 10 hours and still going strong. The crew did a fine job getting themselves fired. If you really want to know what went down any Chief Pilot will set the record straight for you.

 

[Whoop Whoop]

Regarding the alcohol incidents...

There were two alcohol incidents last year. One on the Saab and one on the Avro.

This statement refers to the Saab crew (though I don't know if I'd trust a story coming from a chief pilot):
"Try 10 hours and still going strong. The crew did a fine job getting themselves fired. If you really want to know what went down any Chief Pilot will set the record straight for you."

This statement refers to the Avro crew (except it was a beer):
"This is not the same guy that got the prob F.O. fired cause he thought it might have been a little under 12 hours and he saw him with a glass of wine?"

 

[pilot4nwa]

There were two alcohol incidents last year. One on the Saab and one on the Avro.

This statement refers to the Saab crew (though I don't know if I'd trust a story coming from a chief pilot):
"Try 10 hours and still going strong. The crew did a fine job getting themselves fired. If you really want to know what went down any Chief Pilot will set the record straight for you."

This statement refers to the Avro crew (except it was a beer):
"This is not the same guy that got the prob F.O. fired cause he thought it might have been a little under 12 hours and he saw him with a glass of wine?"

"Try 10 hours and still going strong, The crew did a fine job getting themselves fired. If you really want to know what went down any Chief Pilot will set the record straight for you" refers to the Avro crew. The Avro crew wasn't just sipping a glass of wine "a little under 12 hours".

 

[mesaba2425]

Did you see the new Air Wisconsin contract? 2nd Year FO: $34.86. Mesaba wants to give me less than $24.50!!

Get a job with AWAC then.

 

[Whoop Whoop]

"Try 10 hours and still going strong, The crew did a fine job getting themselves fired. If you really want to know what went down any Chief Pilot will set the record straight for you" refers to the Avro crew. The Avro crew wasn't just sipping a glass of wine "a little under 12 hours".

pilot4nwa: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree (like I said, it was beer, first of all). Secondly, I personally know more than one of the individual's involved and it was less than 12 hours, but more than 11 hours. They made an honest mistake by looking at their pairing show time for day 3, not day 2, hence the problem. Those involved that are no longer with the company are truly the type of people that you would like to fly with, not "rebels" trying to work the system.

 

[Dodge]

Even if it was 10 hours and they were still going strong, who cares. Feds say 8 hours. I know the Mesaba FOM says 12. Our Cheif Pilots violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it when it affects the operation negatively. I know this of personal experience and had to set one straight myself. Scheduling actually had to set him straight for me as I never heard from him again.

Everyone knows who rated that FO and FA's out. Everyone knows that that individual can not be trusted farther than he can be thrown. (Not far, he's kinda soft.) Whether or not he is DetoXJ, I don't know or care. Regardless, his integrity is suspect at best.

 

[xjlifer]

Anyone that would rat out a crew member for what he did is a flake. If you have any suspicion your crew member is unsafe to fly you tell them.."call in sick cause I will not fly with you"

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

If you have any suspicion your crew member is unsafe to fly you tell them.."call in sick cause I will not fly with you"

This statement should be on a flash card.

 

[DetoXJ]

This should also be a flashcard.

FAA/FOM rules governing drinking are hard rules and no one is above them. If you are stupid enough to break them, be prepared for the consequences. If you can't control your drinking and must drink outside of the FAA/FOM limits, don't be dumb enought to do it in a public place, Call AA and change professions.

 

[Dodge]

Noone is denying the hard and fast of the FOM/Regs. However, like I said before, some of Mesaba's more morally challenged C.Ps can deviate from the Regs/FOM when it is in the best interest of them. There are numerous examples.

What people get a little hot about is how some have no problem telling their FO "don't worry, just a little mixup on the pattern times, let's talk to ALPA" and the FO picking up the phone an hour later with a chief saying that your captain informs me that you chose to violate the drinking policy.

Did the FO make a mistake...yep. Does the captain have to live with getting 3 people fired for a mistake that could have been rectified in a completely different way....yep.


Interviewer: You notice that your captain had a beer 38 minutes past his cut off hour, what do you do?
Candidate: I call the C.P. straight away and recommend termination.

Good luck getting on with a major (or getting on in life) with that mentality.

 

[xjcaptain]

Nobody wants to hear of anybody getting fired for alcohol related issues. However, everybody knows the rules, and if you don't choose to follow them, it's a DECISION that you made. If it was a honest mistake about report times, then do the right thing and call in sick. If you still will not step up to the plate, you are now jeopardizing the careers of everybody with you. Like it or not, this isn't high-school or college. We are all supposed to be professional adults, if you can't act like one, maybe this isn't the job for you. Maybe some people need to learn that actions have consequences. This is an issue that just shouldn't come up. Pretty simple actually, the rules are spelled out, just follow them. If you don't and you get busted, it's nobodys fault but your own. Spin it any way you want, but it's not the fault of the guy who did follow the rules. Like it or not, if somebody I'm flying with blows the 12 hour rule, I will give them the option to fix it themselves by calling in sick etc. I will not ruin my career over somebody elses mistakes.

p.s. what do you think the interviewer would rather have, the guy that can't put down a beer when he's supposed to, or the guy that demonstrated that they will not put their airline in the position of a whole bunch of unwanted publicity on CNN. Grow up and quit whining about a guy who exercied every option short of ignoring the issue and possibly costing him his own job.

 

[XJdriver]

It appears the Captian of the GFK drinking event is letting it known on the ALPA board exactly what happened. He is willing to take questions and ideas on how things could have been done differently.
He is signing his name to what happened. Maybe if you have something to say about it your all should ask him. It is really easy to give pointers from behind a screen name.
I am not defending one way or another just letting you know that you are being called out on the ALPA message board.

 

[Dodge]

.....

 

[Dodge]

p.s. what do you think the interviewer would rather have, the guy that can't put down a beer when he's supposed to, or the guy that demonstrated that they will not put their airline in the position of a whole bunch of unwanted publicity on CNN. Grow up and quit whining about a guy who exercied every option short of ignoring the issue and possibly costing him his own job.

I agree mostly. The exception that I have is that the interviewer will view my made up scenario the same as hiring a scab. Why bring in this kind of person (right or wrong) into a situation where he has to play nice and get along with others in the interest of safety?

I for one, if I ever had to fly with this captain again, would not speak one word that wasn't spelled out specifically for me in the POM, FOM or Regs. MY career is too important for a pompous and arrogant REGIONAL captain to mess with.

But let us get down to brass tacks here. Had I been the captain, I would have had a nice heart to heart with the FO and told him to call in sick. Tell scheduling after 12 hours that the Immodium was working fine and that he was ready for duty. If he was not willing to do that, I would have called in sick. Given this captains spectacular overall company performance, that wouldn't been a problem.

I am a stickler as much as anyone else. I have even rufused to park without lighted wands as a captain and as an FO because rules are rules. I just can not be persuaded to think that this was the only and best way to handle this situation.

 

[profit]

Please, who gives a *uck about the idiotic company 12 hour rule. Were these individuals going to be above .00% blood alcohol in the morning? Are you telling me its ok to get dead drunk with 12.5 hours less, but if I have a single drink at 11 you are going to turn me in? If the rule was 20 hours and I broke it by 1 hr, are you going to turn me in?

It was a ROTTEN thing to do turning them in. If your panties are in so much of a bunch about breaking 12 hours, give those in question the chance to decide for themselves. The moment you become the company enforcer is the moment you turn your back on your brothers.

If the FO in question was on his 4th beer with 10 hours to go and quit then, BAC would have been 0.00%. For an average sized male, the body metabolizes about .02% per hour (1 beer per hour).

Nobody needs a BEER NAZI....Maybe its time to grow up a little bit.

 

[pilot4nwa]

Even if it was 10 hours and they were still going strong, who cares. Feds say 8 hours. I know the Mesaba FOM says 12. Our Cheif Pilots violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it when it affects the operation negatively. I know this of personal experience and had to set one straight myself. Scheduling actually had to set him straight for me as I never heard from him again.

Dodge, With an asinine claim like that you just blew what little credibility, if any, you had here. For you to suggest that XJ Chief Pilots asks pilots to bend drinking rules in order to maintain schedule integrity is beyond absurd. To further claim that they "violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it" just completely drives home the fact that you are a total imbecile.

 

[Spinn555]

Dodge, With an asinine claim like that you just blew what little credibility, if any, you had here. For you to suggest that XJ Chief Pilots asks pilots to bend drinking rules in order to maintain schedule integrity is beyond absurd. To further claim that they "violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it" just completely drives home the fact that you are a total imbecile.

RIGHT ON!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Dodge, With an asinine claim like that you just blew what little credibility, if any, you had here. For you to suggest that XJ Chief Pilots asks pilots to bend drinking rules in order to maintain schedule integrity is beyond absurd. To further claim that they "violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it" just completely drives home the fact that you are a total imbecile.

I believe he is saying that maybe the CP's ask us to bend the FOM in other areas, not in drinking. For example, "We've got a ferry permit and you're gonna fly home part 91, so 30/7 doesn't apply. Bring the plane home so we can keep our metrics up."

 

[Dodge]

Dodge, With an asinine claim like that you just blew what little credibility, if any, you had here. For you to suggest that XJ Chief Pilots asks pilots to bend drinking rules in order to maintain schedule integrity is beyond absurd. To further claim that they "violate that book everyday and advise pilots to violate it" just completely drives home the fact that you are a total imbecile.

Uh, I don't even now how to respond to this. I must of struck a nerve with the extent of the name calling.

Of course C.P.s are not going to advise breaking the law for a beer, but they have/do/will advise pilots to break the law with duty limits, rest limits. Mine was specifically about a random drug test were the C.P. told a blatant lie with regards to required rest when I was trying to take the legal course of action. They will even forge a medical from time to time.

I realize now that I need to draw pictures when speaking in the company of the mainline pilots. I will be much more precise in my phrasing to avoid confusing the gods of aircraft.