The Avros are gone!

[Abbey]

This good banter may not matter. My wife just gave me the company's proposal for the FA's. I doubt too many will stick around for that.

And yes, Mesaba does have right seat captains. They are called LCA's. They are/were notorious for picking up open time in the right seat for premium CA pay while we had furloughed pilots. Real classy. Although there was one that refused to fly as an FO unless training needed to be done. Restifo told him that he wasn't the kind of instructor Mesaba needed and relieved him of his duties.

I am so glad I don't have a dog in this fight. Good luck to all XJers.

 

[XJPilot547]

No need to even be remotely civil. All the stupid rants and name calling, I hope you two enjoy a long miserable career here. DetoXJ and Screwed Again, no one is crying, just trying to give another perspective. Looks like if no one agrees with you, they are crybabies and chest thumpers. Mesaba WAS a good airline but no longer is. It's guys like you who bend over and take it everytime that makes it this way. Mesaba is Mesa but everyone doesn't hate us as much because we don't go out and compete for other business with our crap pay like they do. Truth sux but our contract is already average at best.

 

[schmitty340]

And the winner is? Thats right, XJPILOT547 !

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Gumby,

Actually I instructed for 3 years prior to Mesaba, I didn't come to Mesaba from some Riddle or UND bridge program with 500hrs, and I still got hired in my early 20's, I'm just a "Helluva" lucky guy. So I've been the "3 yr cfi" and a "6 year fo". That makes 9 years of making jack. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay any dues.

I never said you didn't pay your dues. I said if someone upgraded in 2 years, don't assume they didn't pay their dues.

 

[Rossa]

DetoXJ,

I think I did answer your question. If the bottom half of the list is gone, then all remaining would be displaced and possibly locked for 24 months. Who gave a time frame for seat locks to begin - seems like the company could start that crap at a time of it's choosing. The term sheet you see today will not be the one the judge sees, if it comes to that. There will be significant changes in the interim.
You say I'm assuming too much - that may be true (I hope so), but this could be mngt's last chance to really screw us and make some serious cash before the economy improves and the Admin. in DC changes. Why wouldn't they go for broke?? They don't care!

 

[screwed_again]

I suggest you get your arrogant a$$ out of the left seat of the AVRO, walk around for a while, get the blood flowing to the grey stuff and plan on a radically different lifestyle post April 1st.

Arrogant???????????????????? Is that how you prerceive Avro captains? Nice.

 

[screwed_again]

No need to even be remotely civil. All the stupid rants and name calling, I hope you two enjoy a long miserable career here. DetoXJ and Screwed Again, no one is crying, just trying to give another perspective. Looks like if no one agrees with you, they are crybabies and chest thumpers. Mesaba WAS a good airline but no longer is. It's guys like you who bend over and take it everytime that makes it this way. Mesaba is Mesa but everyone doesn't hate us as much because we don't go out and compete for other business with our crap pay like they do. Truth sux but our contract is already average at best.

Hey, I'm just giving you my perspective. Why do you assume I will have a long and miserable career here? I guess you will be quitting soon? Heard Pinnacle is hiring.

 

[DetoXJ]

No need to even be remotely civil. All the stupid rants and name calling, I hope you two enjoy a long miserable career here. DetoXJ and Screwed Again, no one is crying, just trying to give another perspective. Looks like if no one agrees with you, they are crybabies and chest thumpers. Mesaba WAS a good airline but no longer is. It's guys like you who bend over and take it everytime that makes it this way. Mesaba is Mesa but everyone doesn't hate us as much because we don't go out and compete for other business with our crap pay like they do. Truth sux but our contract is already average at best.

Thats fine 547. Give another perspective all you want. Thats all screwed and I are trying to do. Should we be pissed that it's new hire FO's that cost us jobs at majors? If new hire FO's would refuse these jobs for chump wages than maybe majors wouldn't be able to get away with outsourcing and downsizing to regionals. Shist, I should be a 5 year FO at UAL right now making $150K per year flying the big iron. Do I take it out on FO's because I'm not, No! All I can do is make the best of what I have going for me. If FO's can beat their chest and say they have nothing to lose so they will strike then thats fine. It tells me they are just looking out for what they have to lose. Listening to that all day gives screwed and I the right to look out for what we have to lose.

 

[screwed_again]

sorry detoxj...that last post was for screwedagain...i get you two mix up. I suppose it could go for the both of you. But in all fairness it was screwed again that said he was stuck here!

Who said I was stuck here? I am stuck here as much as someone is stuck being a "6 year FO." We must make our own decisions when it is time to go.

 

[Rossa]

Not AVRO captains! Just this person who I wrongly assumed was in that position - my bad!

 

[schmitty340]

Screwed again.......you said that in your post about a page back. And your right, we all make our decisions. That was my point..


"You know, I don't have a clue. You have no idea what its like to be stuck at a regional for 10 years either. Not a good arguement. And you know what, that is the breaks kids. Its not my fault you got into this business in 2000. Its not my fault you pick the airline with the slowest upgrade. Its also not your fault that I'm not making $125,000 year at a major."

 

[screwed_again]

It's all cool, Schmitty.

 

[scabseeker]

Shist, I should be a 5 year FO at UAL right now making $150K per year flying the big iron. Do I take it out on FO's because I'm not, No!

How could you blame them? You are the one that blew the United interview.

The funniest part of this thread is DetoXJ thinking we don't know who he is.

PS if you flew the Dash and aren't an Avro captain what have you been doing all these years?

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Gumby,

Actually I instructed for 3 years prior to Mesaba, I didn't come to Mesaba from some Riddle or UND bridge program with 500hrs, and I still got hired in my early 20's, I'm just a "Helluva" lucky guy. So I've been the "3 yr cfi" and a "6 year fo". That makes 9 years of making jack. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay any dues.

The new seniority list is out. The most junior Captain after all the furloughs is Jan. 3, 2000 and the most junior Captain before all this crap started was at least Feb. 5, 2001 and probably more junior than that. 6 year FO huh, I guess that makes you a "Helluva Liar".

 

[DetoXJ]

How could you blame them? You are the one that blew the United interview.

The funniest part of this thread is DetoXJ thinking we don't know who he is.

PS if you flew the Dash and aren't an Avro captain what have you been doing all these years?

Scabseeker, I'm flattered that you want to know who I am. I will give you a clue if you must know. I Swam in the pool for UAL but never got called up. Flightinfo is a garbage website due to the fact that most posting is done anonymously. If you feel the need to call someone out than have the stones, (guts for you since you don't have stones), to introduce yourself. Otherwise STFU. You are clueless as the day is long to assume that every Dash 8 pilot now flies the Avro. Would you like me to PM you a list of dozens of former Dash 8 pilots who don't fly the Avro? Are you just pissed because ATA teased you?

 

[twinbeech]

Thats fine 547. Give another perspective all you want. Thats all screwed and I are trying to do. Should we be pissed that it's new hire FO's that cost us jobs at majors? If new hire FO's would refuse these jobs for chump wages than maybe majors wouldn't be able to get away with outsourcing and downsizing to regionals. Shist, I should be a 5 year FO at UAL right now making $150K per year flying the big iron. Do I take it out on FO's because I'm not, No! All I can do is make the best of what I have going for me. If FO's can beat their chest and say they have nothing to lose so they will strike then thats fine. It tells me they are just looking out for what they have to lose. Listening to that all day gives screwed and I the right to look out for what we have to lose.

Ok, so you are saying that its new hire FO's that are costing you jobs at majors, huh??? Yet I am pretty sure that a few posts back you were the one saying that the new hires should take the same hit as you. Does your company have any solidarity? Seriously??? The only dog I have in this fight is if my company picks up some of the flying that should be yours. Do I want to upgrade? Of course! Do I want to upgrade based on your going away? Heck no!!! It's that kind of all for me, me for all forethought that puts all of you in this chitty posistion. I DO NOT WANT TO PICK UP ANY FLYING AT YOUR COMPANY'S LOSS!!! But if you keep that kind of thought process up, it may happen. I don't have any control over what my company does, but you have to vote. Based on what has happened to us in the last few years, there is no way in heck that our pilot group is going to take a hit. Not on the CA side, not on the FO side. It will not happen. We know that we are all in this together. Please, we all beg you, do not let yourselves be divided. Do not let your management take you to where none of us want to be.

 

[XJPilot547]

Jan. 3, 2000 plus 6 years is Jan. 3, 2006. Hmmm... sound likes 6 years.

 

[DetoXJ]

Ok, so you are saying that its new hire FO's that are costing you jobs at majors, huh??? Yet I am pretty sure that a few posts back you were the one saying that the new hires should take the same hit as you. Does your company have any solidarity? Seriously??? The only dog I have in this fight is if my company picks up some of the flying that should be yours. Do I want to upgrade? Of course! Do I want to upgrade based on your going away? Heck no!!! It's that kind of all for me, me for all forethought that puts all of you in this chitty posistion. I DO NOT WANT TO PICK UP ANY FLYING AT YOUR COMPANY'S LOSS!!! But if you keep that kind of thought process up, it may happen. I don't have any control over what my company does, but you have to vote. Based on what has happened to us in the last few years, there is no way in heck that our pilot group is going to take a hit. Not on the CA side, not on the FO side. It will not happen. We know that we are all in this together. Please, we all beg you, do not let yourselves be divided. Do not let your management take you to where none of us want to be.

Twinbeach, I was playing Devils advocate there. I seriously don't blame the lack of jobs at majors on new hire FO's. Thats almost as ridiculous as some FO suggesting that only Captains should take pay cuts during Chapter 11 reorganization isn't it?

 

[Butters]

Thats almost as ridiculous as some FO suggesting that only Captains should take pay cuts during Chapter 11 reorganization isn't it?

I don't think it is rediculous to think captains should take more of a hit than f/o's. They make more and can afford to lose more. But more importantly, most captains can or will end up f/o's before this is done.

We mock management for only taking the minimum and not taking more of a cut. I agree they should take more. I also think captains should take a slightly bigger hit than f/o's if anyone is going to take anything. Not a flame, just my opinion.

 

[flyin backwards]

Here's my take. I made $38000 last year as a FO. 3% is about $1100. $70000 captain would take $2100, Looks like they are taking more. Just a thought

 

[Whoop Whoop]

Here's a classy thought...

Stop the bickering. Though everyone is entitled to their opinion, this mis-management team put us in this situation- not any current captains or first officers.

Don't let management get the better of you and take your anger out on other fellow pilots.

Meant with good intentions.

Fraternally,

A Fellow XJ'er

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Your SLT had nothing to do with this, I'm 100% certain NWA did this to you guys.

 

[screwed_again]

I don't think it is rediculous to think captains should take more of a hit than f/o's. They make more and can afford to lose more. But more importantly, most captains can or will end up f/o's before this is done.

We mock management for only taking the minimum and not taking more of a cut. I agree they should take more. I also think captains should take a slightly bigger hit than f/o's if anyone is going to take anything. Not a flame, just my opinion.

I'm glad its just your opinion, because it will be the Captains and FOs alike who share the pain. The pain will be measured in percentages and not dollar amounts.

 

[Smarta$$]

Thats fine 547. Give another perspective all you want. Thats all screwed and I are trying to do. Should we be pissed that it's new hire FO's that cost us jobs at majors? If new hire FO's would refuse these jobs for chump wages than maybe majors wouldn't be able to get away with outsourcing and downsizing to regionals. Shist, I should be a 5 year FO at UAL right now making $150K per year flying the big iron. Do I take it out on FO's because I'm not, No! All I can do is make the best of what I have going for me. If FO's can beat their chest and say they have nothing to lose so they will strike then thats fine. It tells me they are just looking out for what they have to lose. Listening to that all day gives screwed and I the right to look out for what we have to lose.

Detox, It would be very stupid of you to make this case considering you took this job as an FO also. And I am quite sure that the wages were not great.

 

[saabservant]

How about a nice cup of "STFU"! All of you!
Steenland, Foley, and Spanjers are the enemy, and the game they play, the whole Air transport assn plays, is divide and conquer.
A unified face is the only one we should be showing alleged mgmt.
If you have a problem with one of the proposals, talk to one of your reps, or your fellow pilot in person, not on a public webboard.
These mismanagement pukes thrive on your fear-of losing your job, of mainline, of other regionals. If you want to bit*h and harrass someone, talk to nwa, msa, and 9e reps , and people at alpa national, and press for a unified strategy.
And if that strategy calls for you to sacrifice something for the good of all on the farm in exchange for security and unity against mismanagement games, seriously consider it. Your status as a "secure" regional pilot is a fantasy, in your own mind....

Trying to think of better fantasies, myself...

 

[saabservant]

I apologize for that last....it's cold here in Minne,,, by brain is numb...


Heard recently by an experienced sage: "These mgmt. types are all bean-counters, and you know what type of people bean-counters are?
They are people who know the price of everything, and the value of nothing".

 

[Occam's Razor]

How about a nice cup of "STFU"! All of you!
Steenland, Foley, and Spanjers are the enemy, and the game they play, the whole Air transport assn plays, is divide and conquer.
A unified face is the only one we should be showing alleged mgmt.
If you have a problem with one of the proposals, talk to one of your reps, or your fellow pilot in person, not on a public webboard.
These mismanagement pukes thrive on your fear-of losing your job, of mainline, of other regionals. If you want to bit*h and harrass someone, talk to nwa, msa, and 9e reps , and people at alpa national, and press for a unified strategy.
And if that strategy calls for you to sacrifice something for the good of all on the farm in exchange for security and unity against mismanagement games, seriously consider it. Your status as a "secure" regional pilot is a fantasy, in your own mind....

Ok...you're my new hero.

Thanks for the post.

 

[MesabaDriver]

I am just curious, since everyone thinks they know who Deto_XJ is. Is he the Capt who snitches on crew members in order to make himself look like the hero. Tells the crew members onething and the tells the CP another? Just curious if not then you wont find this disrepectful.

 

[Rook]

I am just curious, since everyone thinks they know who Deto_XJ is. Is he the Capt who snitches on crew members in order to make himself look like the hero. Tells the crew members onething and the tells the CP another? Just curious if not then you wont find this disrepectful.

Talk about unity. Snitching on your teammates...good luck XJ'rs.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I am just curious, since everyone thinks they know who Deto_XJ is. Is he the Capt who snitches on crew members in order to make himself look like the hero. Tells the crew members onething and the tells the CP another? Just curious if not then you wont find this disrepectful.

Does that have anything to do with the "unfortunate" dinner incident this summer?