The Avros are gone!

[screwed_again]

Deto_XJ,

Until the last few years Upgrade NEVER took more than 2 1/2 years. Yea MSP dudes had to hang out but they could of upgraded in DTW. Deto_XJ and Screwed againg have NO clude what its like to be stuck as an FO for 5,6,7 years. Thus they have the "Hey thats just the breaks kid" attitude.

You know, I don't have a clue. You have no idea what its like to be stuck at a regional for 10 years either. Not a good arguement. And you know what, that is the breaks kids. Its not my fault you got into this business in 2000. Its not my fault you pick the airline with the slowest upgrade. Its also not your fault that I'm not making $125,000 year at a major.

We are all in this togehter; including the upcoming paycuts!

 

[screwed_again]

I don't think anyone should take a paycut but you two, Detoxj and Screwed Again need to wake up. First, FO's did not get a huge increase. The only area that FO's made out was first year pay and none of us are first year. Yeah, FO's got a bigger percentage increase, but 10% of $30 is only a $3 increase.

I don't think anyone should either. But that is not the reality of this bankruptcy, is it? And thanks for making my case about the FO's pay increase with the last contract. Maybe if the FO's got a 10% increase on the last contract, they should take a 10% cut during these concessions. The captains will take their corresponding pay cuts based on their last contractual pay increase. Sound fair?

Also, the union proposed a 3% paycut for everyone. 3% of 30 is 90 cents. quit bitching.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I don't think anyone should either. But that is not the reality of this bankruptcy, is it? And thanks for making my case about the FO's pay increase with the last contract. Maybe if the FO's got a 10% increase on the last contract, they should take a 10% cut during these concessions. The captains will take their corresponding pay cuts based on their last contractual pay increase. Sound fair?

Also, the union proposed a 3% paycut for everyone. 3% of 30 is 90 cents. quit bitching.

And the cannabalism continues while PF and JS sip Moet and roll in big piles of money.

Figure out who the enemy is!

 

[fly4ever]

"when you finally upgrade to captain"

screwed again,

Just what kind of "lifestyle" do you think I can afford on less than $40K a year? Also, reread my post and get your info correct for once. I did upgrade and I am a CAPTAIN currently stuck back in the right seat. Moron.

 

[screwed_again]

"when you finally upgrade to captain"

screwed again,

Reread my post and get your info correct for once. I did upgrade and I am a CAPTAIN currently stuck back in the right seat. Moron.

When did captains start sitting in the right seat. Are you doing IOE?

 

[DetoXJ]

"when you finally upgrade to captain"

screwed again,

Reread my post and get your info correct for once. I did upgrade and I am a CAPTAIN currently stuck back in the right seat. Moron.

Didn't we rag on Capt. Ed all of the time because he refered to himself as Captain, or is it once a Capt, Always a Capt? I didn't know Captains flew from the right seat.

 

[screwed_again]

"when you finally upgrade to captain"

screwed again,

Just what kind of "lifestyle" do you think I can afford on less than $40K a year? Also, reread my post and get your info correct for once. I did upgrade and I am a CAPTAIN currently stuck back in the right seat. Moron.

So you want me to give you a portion of my lifestyle so you can maintain status quo. Did you vote for John Kerry?

If you are sitting in the right seat, you're not a captain, MORON. Does the realease list two captains when you fly? Are you on the captains' bid packet? If you're a captain, then you're getting captain pay, right? Do you still wear 4 bars?

 

[fly4ever]

DetoXJ and screwed again,

You're both right. I'm now an FO that will be furloughed sometime within the next 6 months probably. Then you can sit in the right seat and be an FO again too.

BTW, although I'm not one, last I heard check airmen are captains and fly from the right seat.

 

[DetoXJ]

DetoXJ,

You're right. I'm now an FO that will be furloughed sometime within the next 6 months probably. Then you can sit in the right seat and be an FO again too.

BTW, although I'm not one, last I heard check airmen are captains and fly from the right seat.

You are the one who said you were a Captain currently stuck in the right seat. I'm glad we have someone to continue Ed's legacy.

 

[screwed_again]

You are the one who said you were a Captain currently stuck in the right seat. I'm glad we have someone to continue Ed's legacy.

Now that is funny!

 

[fly4ever]

DetoXJ,

You are continuing his legacy very well all on your own.

It was fun to play, have to go to work now.

 

[screwed_again]

DetoXJ,

You are continuing his legacy very well all on your own.

It was fun to play, have to go to work now.

Which captain signs the paperwork when you fly? The left-seater or the right seater?

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Deto_XJ,

Hes the one that said during the union pizza dinner, "What do we have to do to get these CRJ's(705's special Ed was talking about) at Mesaba"

and screwed_again well he's probably one of Deto_XJs buddies on the Avro.


Until the last few years Upgrade NEVER took more than 2 1/2 years. Yea MSP dudes had to hang out but they could of upgraded in DTW. Deto_XJ and Screwed againg have NO clude what its like to be stuck as an FO for 5,6,7 years. Thus they have the "Hey thats just the breaks kid" attitude.

Lets see how they like being demoted to props again or swinging gear for some tool just like themselves.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's a ton of regionals were PFT and others had 2500 TT and 1000 ME requirements, and the rest weren't hiring because the industry sucked back then as it does today, so there were a lot of 3 and 4 year flight instructors (I instructed for 4 years). IT'S A HELLUVA LOT BETTER TO BE A 5 YEAR FO THAN A 3 YEAR FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR! So, yes you're right, we had a quick upgrade, but we paid our dues as we were on the outside looking in before we got hired.

On another note, for those of you who are so unhappy, PLEASE LEAVE! Y'all squeal about how you can make more money at another job, or some other regional pays more, but you never follow through on your chest pounding! You assume too much, cuz when reality sets in, you'll find out that if you apply for a job, you are not guaranteed a job, or if you get the job, it's not a green as you thought it would be. I know a dozen furloughees from the majors, and not one makes nearly the money than they did their first year at the majors, and they are working twice as hard just to get 3/4 of the money they made before furlough.

Sometimes I wonder if Mesaba was the only regional dumb enough to hire some of you, and now we are stuck with you. Can you deal with anything?

 

[Rossa]

There are 2 guys on this board who are going to be REALLY disappointed when they are stuck in the SAAB doing sh!tty scheds, getting displaced year after year and wondering why they stayed. While those recently downgraded guys slip past them into nicer equipment, with better QOL (minus the pay)!

By the way, DetoxJ and Screwed.......If the Union Strikes and mngt starts hiring replacements, will you 2 guys come back???? I think judging from your tone it's very likely.

 

[screwed_again]

You have me totally wrong Rossa. I am with Gumby. Basically he says that we all pay our dues at some time and place. People that got into the regionals in 2000 are disappointed because Kit Darby painted wonderful pictures of quick upgrades and interviews at the majors. Those people also didn't have to flight instruct for 4 years at $10,000/yr average to get a $17,000/yr job at mesaba! How many pilots at XJ recently hired are under 23? A ton! The average newhire 1995 was 28! So I don't feel sorry for the new guys, and I won't take their paycut so they "can eat dinner on Thursday."

 

[DetoXJ]

There are 2 guys on this board who are going to be REALLY disappointed when they are stuck in the SAAB doing sh!tty scheds, getting displaced year after year and wondering why they stayed. While those recently downgraded guys slip past them into nicer equipment, with better QOL (minus the pay)!

By the way, DetoxJ and Screwed.......If the Union Strikes and mngt starts hiring replacements, will you 2 guys come back???? I think judging from your tone it's very likely.

How is a recently downgraded guy going to slip past someone senior into nicer equipment and what nicer equipment are you refering to? I didn't see anything in the term sheet that says displaced pilots are frozen. It only states that displaced pilots will "carry their remaining freeze into their new position". If an Avro Captain is displaced to a Saab Captain is he frozen for 24 months? If so that same logic would say that a Saab Captain displaced to an FO is also frozen for 24 months. As far as a union strike and replacement workers don't go assuming too much rossa.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Alright, I'm getting tired of all the arguing. In the end, everyone has to vote what their gut is telling them. Based on Comair's voting results, I'll bet Mesaba's vote on any TA that comes along will be tighter. Good luck to everyone when this mess is all settled.

MM

 

[DetoXJ]

Alright, I'm getting tired of all the arguing. In the end, everyone has to vote what their gut is telling them. Based on Comair's voting results, I'll bet Mesaba's vote on any TA that comes along will be tighter. Good luck to everyone when this mess is all settled.

MM

Tighter than Comairs? How can it get any tighter?

Comair vote result was 49.95 % opposed and 50.05 in favor.

 

[flyn96]

Deto_XJ,

never said you'd met Special ed just that you had a boner for getting 70 seaters and you wanted to know how to ge them

Screwed again,

sorry you've been here 10 years, I'm going on 6, yea its not ten, but still getting to be along time

Gumby,

Actually I instructed for 3 years prior to Mesaba, I didn't come to Mesaba from some Riddle or UND bridge program with 500hrs, and I still got hired in my early 20's, I'm just a "Helluva" lucky guy. So I've been the "3 yr cfi" and a "6 year fo". That makes 9 years of making jack. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay any dues.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Tighter than Comairs? How can it get any tighter?

Comair vote result was 49.95 % opposed and 50.05 in favor.

I think we can beat that... I heard the vote was on the order of very low double digits. Cheers.


MM

 

[Rossa]

From a company perspective: We have too many senior guys. How do you get rid of that problem? Well, you sit down long in advance of any talk of chpt 11 and work on a legal strategy to rid the company of senior guys. Scenario: Actually decrease to 49 SAABs - result = bottom half of seniority list is gone. Lock in everyone. Start growing. Rehire bottom half of seniority list and staff the planes accordingly. Result = seriously cheap labor on majority of fleet.
There are multiple scenarios which could result in the senior guys getting the shaft (by the way, I don't like the idea one bit - before you come out accusing me of that). I suggest you get your arrogant a$$ out of the left seat of the AVRO, walk around for a while, get the blood flowing to the grey stuff and plan on a radically different lifestyle post April 1st.
Many of the junior guys have already accepted their fate and have made the necessary adjustments, or are planning actively. You should take a leaf out of their book!

 

[Rossa]

Previous post directed at DetoXJ

 

[DetoXJ]

Deto_XJ,

never said you'd met Special ed just that you had a boner for getting 70 seaters and you wanted to know how to ge them

Screwed again,

sorry you've been here 10 years, I'm going on 6, yea its not ten, but still getting to be along time

Gumby,

Actually I instructed for 3 years prior to Mesaba, I didn't come to Mesaba from some Riddle or UND bridge program with 500hrs, and I still got hired in my early 20's, I'm just a "Helluva" lucky guy. So I've been the "3 yr cfi" and a "6 year fo". That makes 9 years of making jack. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay any dues.

Wrong again. Either way I never meet Ed or asked about growth at a union RGS Pizza dinner. My last RGS didn't even have an ALPA hosted pizza dinner. Keep trying chump.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

You have me totally wrong Rossa. I am with Gumby. Basically he says that we all pay our dues at some time and place. People that got into the regionals in 2000 are disappointed because Kit Darby painted wonderful pictures of quick upgrades and interviews at the majors. Those people also didn't have to flight instruct for 4 years at $10,000/yr average to get a $17,000/yr job at mesaba! How many pilots at XJ recently hired are under 23? A ton! The average newhire 1995 was 28! So I don't feel sorry for the new guys, and I won't take their paycut so they "can eat dinner on Thursday."

Actually I graduated in 2000. Had to flight instruct 3 years to finally get a charter job to then get a lousy paying corporate gig to then get here to now be on the street. 6 years and have yet to bring in over $25,000. I have no more ability to pay......

 

[DetoXJ]

From a company perspective: We have too many senior guys. How do you get rid of that problem? Well, you sit down long in advance of any talk of chpt 11 and work on a legal strategy to rid the company of senior guys. Scenario: Actually decrease to 49 SAABs - result = bottom half of seniority list is gone. Lock in everyone. Start growing. Rehire bottom half of seniority list and staff the planes accordingly. Result = seriously cheap labor on majority of fleet.
There are multiple scenarios which could result in the senior guys getting the shaft (by the way, I don't like the idea one bit - before you come out accusing me of that). I suggest you get your arrogant a$$ out of the left seat of the AVRO, walk around for a while, get the blood flowing to the grey stuff and plan on a radically different lifestyle post April 1st.
Many of the junior guys have already accepted their fate and have made the necessary adjustments, or are planning actively. You should take a leaf out of their book!

Rossa, you are the master of assumptions. Who said I'm in the left seat of the Avro? Who said I haven't accepted my fate? I'm not the one in denial here with blinders on pounding my chest. I am more than ready for anything that comes my way on April 1st and am at total peace with it. My adjustments and planning began years and years ago by saving and living well within my means. I think you should take a leaf out of my book and quit assuming things. Wilson poll results showed that that vast majority of us trust and find out ALPA leaders trustworthy and credible. Those people we find trustworthy and credible say that we need to take concessions and are actively negoiating them. Deal with it. I have accepted it, have you?

 

[schmitty340]

Anybody that has been at Mesaba for 10 or more years, is here by choice. These are the people that only considered going to NWA because they don't want to leave MN. or they just got comfortable at XJ. There are tons of jobs out there for people with there experience.

Detoxj....just because nwa turned you down doesn't mean you had to say here. you were by no means stuck at this level. you elected to stay. have fun retiring in the saab...

 

[schmitty340]

sorry detoxj...that last post was for screwedagain...i get you two mix up. I suppose it could go for the both of you. But in all fairness it was screwed again that said he was stuck here!

 

[Rossa]

Hey DetoXJ,

Sorry if I assumed wrong but your profile made you look like a captain in the AVRO. By the way, you sound waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too angry to have accepted your fate!

 

[Rossa]

By the way, the Wilson Poll won't mean a thing when the sh!t hits the fan around here! People will vote for what is right for them in the future. You might be an angry 6 year FO now, but by summer you could be in the left seat, with a pay raise and hoping to get enough PIC to get out of here!

 

[DetoXJ]

Hey DetoXJ,

Sorry if I assumed wrong but your profile made you look like a captain in the AVRO. By the way, you sound waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too angry to have accepted your fate!

No problem Rossa. I am far from angry. This is nothing but a friendly debate to me. Where do I come off as mad and angry? I'm a realist and I don't share the opinions of the chest pounding crew lounge loud mouths. I respect their opinion but just because I don't share it doesn't mean I am angry. If I defend my position and call someone a Chump because they are talking crap then so be it, doesn't mean I'm "waaaaayyyyyyyyyy" angry, or angry at all.

P.S. Rossa, you never answered this question.........

How is a recently downgraded guy going to slip past someone senior into nicer equipment and what nicer equipment are you refering to? I didn't see anything in the term sheet that says displaced pilots are frozen. It only states that displaced pilots will "carry their remaining freeze into their new position". If an Avro Captain is displaced to a Saab Captain is he frozen for 24 months? If so that same logic would say that a Saab Captain displaced to an FO is also frozen for 24 months. As far as a union strike and replacement workers don't go assuming too much rossa.