Thank-you Mesaba

[Lear70]

That's yet another untested legal theory. We don't know what a judge would have done in that case. Based on recent history, I think the unfortunate truth is that a judge most likely would have ordered the pilots back to work.

Back the PAC!!!!!!!

I don't think I necessarily agree with you.

The company would not have access to the same judge that is presiding over their bankruptcy. They would have to take their case before a labor judge.

The problem we've had from the beginning of this process is that the judges involved knew very little of labor law and the reality of the RLA as it applies to aviation (very different than other transportation fields or even, say, schoolteachers for that matter).

The RLA is VERY clear on what happens when you're forced to work outside of your Agreeement, and they would actually have to go in and change some basic tenants of the RLA itself to require them to continue working without a contract in forced conditions.

I don't believe a labor law judge familiar with the RLA would have the cajones to make that kind of call...

Just my opinion. Would have appreciated seeing that theory tested however, since it would be the last defense against the slow demise of this once-honorable (and livably lucrative) profession.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't think I necessarily agree with you.

Of course not, but that's nothing new.

I don't believe a labor law judge familiar with the RLA would have the cajones to make that kind of call...

Maybe, maybe not. It's all politics. I don't believe for a second that most judges are doing their job and actually applying the law as it's clearly written. I think most of them are skewing the law towards their own personal political beliefs. If you have the misfortune of ending up with the wrong judge, then you're screwed, and a very bad legal precedent will be set. It's easy for judges to go their own way when there's no precedent, but after some crazy judge makes a ruling that sets new precedent, then most judges won't rule the other way in the future.

Just my opinion. Would have appreciated seeing that theory tested however

That's easy to say when it's not your career that's being used as the testing vehicle.

 

[Lear70]

Of course not, but that's nothing new.

True dat...

That's easy to say when it's not your career that's being used as the testing vehicle.

True dat, too.

Was a lose-lose either way, I just have the tendency to say fukidol, and go for it, but I have a lot of other skills to fall back on if it were to go badly and a lot of other people haven't had the foresight to develop anything else.

Here is yet another excellent example of why, as pilots, we need to have backup plans, otherwise we will always lose the negotiating game. Management knows we're too lazy, apathetic, or ignorant to start over again, doing something ELSE if absolutely necessary.

 

[TAWS]

I find it funny when any of you talk about snapbacks - they aren't coming EVER!!! Do you know why? Because mngt is SMARTER THAN YOU!! They've proven it yet again with this TA!

When it comes time for raises/snapbacks, a new crisis will appear "a la mesaba" and here you'll go again!

The upside of this TA will never materialize.

 

[redflyer65]

I have a feeling that TAWS is right. Mesaba and the NC tried their best to polish this turd until it shined, but in the end, it's still a big fat steaming pile. Management will see the snap backs coming and come up with some 'other' disaster that will need to be handled. They'll say 'greive it' and continue to operate as they see fit. I think 68% of you were sold a fraudulent bill of goods. Just like the bankruptcy, and just like the strike roadshows in '04. (I was there and heard the presentations)

 

[profit]

I don't think I necessarily agree with you.

The company would not have access to the same judge that is presiding over their bankruptcy. They would have to take their case before a labor judge.

The RLA is VERY clear on what happens when you're forced to work outside of your Agreeement, and they would actually have to go in and change some basic tenants of the RLA itself to require them to continue working without a contract in forced conditions.

I don't believe a labor law judge familiar with the RLA would have the cajones to make that kind of call...

Just my opinion. Would have appreciated seeing that theory tested however, since it would be the last defense against the slow demise of this once-honorable (and livably lucrative) profession.

OK GENIUS. What exactly is a "labor judge"? Is he the guy that rules in "labor court"?

Secondly, the judge in the Mesaba case enjoined them from striking. How much more clear do you need that to be? It doesn't matter what your opinion of the RLA is. For the Mesaba pilots to strike, they would have to wait somewhere around 6 months to win an appeal (under an imposed contract).

That's right. This is all your opinion, not really anything based on real fact. And if you are so high and f$%#ing mighty, why in the WORLD did you decide to accept the offer of employment at PNCL? Or might you be an enormous hypocrite?

 

[TheJCNIs]

BBBWWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

ROFLMFAO !!

When I was a 9E I thought your contract was GARBAGE. I looked at it and, from my standpoint on 5th yr CRJ CA rates, even with your work rules compared to what I was already flying, your paycheck was only 3-5% more than mine.

AND THAT WAS THEN !!!

Under your new rules your pilots will make substantially less, INCLUDING WORK RULES, than a -9E pilot of the same seniority. EVEN WHEN (IF) you guys get CRJ's, your work rules added to the cut rates won't top PCL year for year. If the MEC told you differently, they blatantly lied.

Lear 70

Are you F...ing kidding me. That the problem with comparing only pay rates. We 9E is working 15 mins free on every leg and mesaba is getting block or better on every leg this difference alone is more than 3-5%. Not to mention our min day, the fact if a turn cx we dont have to ask our self if it was WX or MX to get paid. I would be willing to compare our new POS to any dumba$$ on here that keeps saying the bar is so low. Pay is one thing but work rules is where the money is.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

Are you F...ing kidding me. That the problem with comparing only pay rates. We 9E is working 15 mins free on every leg and mesaba is getting block or better on every leg this difference alone is more than 3-5%. Not to mention our min day, the fact if a turn cx we dont have to ask our self if it was WX or MX to get paid. I would be willing to compare our new POS to any dumba$$ on here that keeps saying the bar is so low. Pay is one thing but work rules is where the money is.[/quote]


That is absolutly right. I was furloughed from XJ and went over to QX and suprisingly took a pay cut even though I am at work more at QX. Good work work rules mean everything, hourly rates are secondary.

 

[PCL_128]

We 9E is working 15 mins free on every leg and mesaba is getting block or better on every leg this difference alone is more than 3-5%.

We don't work 15 mins for free on every leg. It's a rarity that we overblock at all. Most of the trip-values are inflated by 20-30 minutes. ALPA's E & FA department determined that we would gain at most 1-2% by going to a block-or-better system. Of course, we want that 1-2% and will not accept a contract without block-or-better, but it's not as big a difference as everyone thinks it is.

 

[oceandude]

When are you morons going to get it?? ALL REGIONALS SUCK!