Terrorists are practicing....

[Vortilon]

This is scary stuff, but more of the reality we all live in. Its been a while since 9/11 but we're still at war. Don't let your guard down if you are riding on/flying an airliner and see this stuff happening...


http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/article_landing.aspx?titleid=1&articleid=711


Apparently a dry run....just like the schmucks did before 9/11.

Be safe out there....

 

[Ty Webb]

I have been aware for a while that they are definitely testing the system, and the only thing that surprises me in the story is that they put 14 of them on together.

I hope everyone reading this story is aware that this is not an isolated incident. Talk to a FAM.

 

[Swede]

I had a situation departing LaGuardia, which if written out in full would be too long and labor intensive, but I am convinced these were bad guys on our flight. To summarize...

Two middle-eastern dudes fly from Belgium to JFK, shuttle to LGA, board the jet, and sit right next to each other in a 3-across row. In other words, they were snuggling when most would spread out. They began to speak in an arab tongue. An anglo woman happened to know Farsi, listened in, and informed the #1 they were discussing security on the jet.

The Capt and I look at each other, and began a 40 minute process of figuring out just WTF was with these guys. The Capt. fakes a maintenance problem while we investigate. He goes back and talks to the men. "NoNoNo, we speak Pakistan, we are Pakistani". Aside to the Capt, Anglo farsi-woman says "No way in hell, it was FARSI". Capt speed dials everyone he knows with security credentials on his cell phone. No one in corporate security can help, so we talk a bit and decide to boot these guys on our own. When the LGA cops arrive to remove them from the plane, the Capt. makes a killer PA... "The maintenance problem was fake, we had two very suspicious men removed from the flight by the port authority." The jet erupts in applause.

I turns out the men had NO bags except a single gym bag between the two, and this was on a flight from EUROPE!! We certainly didn't want their shiite in the cargo hold. I am convinced that they were observers, unlikely to try anything, there weren't enough of them, but they were there to monitor cockpit access and crew coordination. No FAMS on board.

 

[Tripower455]

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

 

[Flywrite]

A very disturbing article. I just hope we dont remember this article someday while watching CNN thinking another tragedy could have been prevented.

 

[AA717driver]

It also proves that Corporate Security is a joke... Unless you're stealing pens and whiteout!TC

 

[rvsm410]

I'm Sorry but....

We all have been on hightened alert for a long time now, we notice things that we never even looked for in pre 911 days....

I think most of us red white and blue americans are getting pretty tired of our society being envaded by the middle easterners that seem to get special treatment, special loan assistance, special courtesies in many ways that we can never seem to get by our own government....

I am the first one to defend our way of life and our Freedoms, I did! and I dont like to see them eroding because of these people...I for one feel we Must change our policies in this country when it comes to "Non-US Citizens". Sorry, we can treat these people nicely, with respect, with an honest reason why we are giving these people extra special searches.....is it discriminatory? YOU BET IT IS... if these people can not understand how we feel, well than got to school or get some counciling on the American way of Life....I'm sick and Tired of trying to be PC with everyone that comes to our country and brings their way of life here to make a change...This is America...thia is our Land, Our Heritage.....when you come here "DO AS WE DO", fit in, enjoy OUR WAY OF LIFE not your old one! Speak "English" act appropreatly(sp) dont give us all reason to think the worse of you because you want to act like idiots on an airplane.....your going to get your A$$ kicked if you keep it up....

The story above and it's publishing will scare away lots of people when the read it, these kind of things have got to stop some how before we all stop flying...
It's only going to take one more airline terrorist incident in this country and the airlines may as well lock the doors and send everyone home...

"Rant over"

Col Bill USAF 9ret)
Dispatcher

 

[Flywrite]

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

I dont want to debate arming pilots, but a team of terrorists assembling a bomb from cell phones and cameras in the lav isnt going to be affected by an armed pilot. If anything it shows that terrorists are already changing tactics to get around an armed crew.

A pistol in the cockpit wouldnt stop an attack like this. Proper screening would!

 

[Tripower455]

I dont want to debate arming pilots, but a team of terrorists assembling a bomb from cell phones and cameras in the lav isnt going to be affected by an armed pilot. If anything it shows that terrorists are already changing tactics to get around an armed crew.

You are correct. An FFDO would have no effect on explosives.

They don't need to put 15 guys on the airplane to blow it up. All it takes is 1 "trusted" (ie: not a pilot) employee on the ramp or a manpad. They were there to commandeer it. An FFDO would have a much better chance of stopping the take over than an unarmed crew.

A pistol in the cockpit wouldnt stop an attack like this. Proper screening would!

The 02 system in the airplane won't extinguish an engine fire, but we still have an 02 system.

I agree about the screening. The politically correct re: screening attitude will get more people killed.......


You'd think that in the wake of 9/11, the government would have gotten serious about airliner security. The sad fact is that the ONLY effective measures that have been taken are:

FFDO program
More FAMs
100% baggage screening.

Everything else that has been done is pure eyewash BS.

The fact that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near every employee on the airport (except pilots) is not screened prior to entering the "secure" area borders on criminal negligence.

 

[rvsm410]

Arming the pilots....

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

Tripower, I dont know really what to say to you here...did you read the artical? Having a hand gun in the cockpit is all fine an dandy...its the last source of defence in the airplane....but you guys up front just better fly the GD airplane and get her on the ground.......In this case, what good would a hand gun do for you if 19 muslims are putting the bomb together on the airplane???? If they blow the a$$ end of the airplane off what good is that gun going to do you or the passengers?????

Geez...get real here, these people are not dumb, just a like a robber, they are going to seek the path of least resistance and look for weaknesses in the system, the cockpit is the last place they are going to go now....and if you open that G.D. Cockpit door for any reason you're and idiot and putting everything on the line again just to play rambo......

 

[Tripower455]

Tripower, I dont know really what to say to you here...did you read the artical? Having a hand gun in the cockpit is all fine an dandy...its the last source of defence in the airplane....but you guys up front just better fly the GD airplane and get her on the ground.......In this case, what good would a hand gun do for you if 19 muslims are putting the bomb together on the airplane???? If they blow the a$$ end of the airplane off what good is that gun going to do you or the passengers?????

Geez...get real here, these people are not dumb, just a like a robber, they are going to seek the path of least resistance and look for weaknesses in the system, the cockpit is the last place they are going to go now....and if you open that G.D. Cockpit door for any reason you're and idiot and putting everything on the line again just to play rambo......

Read the above post.............

They do not need 15 guys on the airplane to blow it up........ If you think so, then you're an idiot...........

FFDOs don't leave the cockpit. (that's period. Dot. End.).

When the 15 guys breach the cockpit, how long do you think I'll be flying the "GD" airplane unarmed?

 

[ATL2CDG]

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

Even though I now support the FFDO program, I have to say this: Having a gun in the flight deck in a mid-flight bomb detenation isn't going to help anyone one bit.

This is America...thia is our Land, Our Heritage.....when you come here "DO AS WE DO", fit in, enjoy OUR WAY OF LIFE not your old one! Speak "English" act appropreatly(sp) dont give us all reason to think the worse of you because you want to act like idiots on an airplane.....your going to get your A$$ kicked if you keep it up....

If you, a presumed native-born English speaker, can't even speak English "appropreatly" [sic], how do you expect a non-national to do so? The fact remains that the United States does not have a federally-supported national langauge and as such, you're going to have a melting pot of English, Spanish, Farsi, a hundred other languages. Sorry; 'tis reality.

 

[Tripower455]

Even though I now support the FFDO program, I have to say this: Having a gun in the flight deck in a mid-flight bomb detenation isn't going to help anyone one bit.

This should be obvious.

I find it amazing the number of pilots I see using this argument against the FFDO program.

It's the same as saying that we shouldn't have an O2 system because it won't put out an engine fire.

 

[Ailerongirl]

IAside to the Capt, Anglo farsi-woman says "No way in hell, it was FARSI".

Good for her, and she's right.....there's a distinct difference between Farsi (Persian), and any other Middle Eastern dialect......

 

[FN FAL]

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

the passengers should be armed. Police officers should be allowed to carry when riding on airliners. Infact, this should be encouraged with non-rev passes. Retired police officers should be allowed to carry on airline flights as well as retired feds. CCW permitted persons should be allowed to carry accross state lines on airlines, if they have a federal endorsement demonstrating training.

The Israelis don't no freaking crap off of their enemies...it's time we didn't either.

 

[mar]

Exactly

That's the society I want to live in: Israel.

I can't wait for Main St. to resemble Jerusalem.

Perfect.

 

[TRLpilot]

our native-born speaker must not be able to write "appropreatly" because he must speak navajo or souix or some other native-american language. that sort of attitude helps flame the fire around the world for folks that see us as arrogant.

i remember hearing about the post-911 story where the arab musicians were being harrassed. it bothered me that now we see arabs differently and the goods ones that mean no harm are going to have to pay a price. but she brings up a good point in her last statement, if they can train to fly airplanes into buildings then they can surely form a band of musicians.

where do you draw the line. she mentions her concern about not being checked again before boarding and all i can think about is all the complaining i hear from people at the security check-in for having to remove their shoes. where do you draw the line? i'm just glad we take care of it with the "feel-good-and-safe" questions like "are you carrying any weapons?"

 

[rvsm410]

If you, a presumed native-born English speaker, can't even speak English "appropreatly" [sic], how do you expect a non-national to do so? The fact remains that the United States does not have a federally-supported national langauge and as such, you're going to have a melting pot of English, Spanish, Farsi, a hundred other languages. Sorry; 'tis reality.

Time for a change in that reality......when americans go abroad we are instructed to do as the locals do.....as much as possible.....I dont think its asking to much from people of middle eastern decent to use their head and not congregate at the aft lav and act the way these idots did in this example....they give all law bidding muslims a bad name......

The only reality is that perception rules at any given moment, reactions are going to occur either positive or negitive, they control the outcome.

Please excuse my misspelling.....and I was writting, not speaking ATL2CDG.....I guess your just going to roll over like most and take it like a man.....change, adapt to new situations this is just one of those situations..

 

[TonyC]

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/article_landing.aspx?titleid=1&articleid=711

When I saw this link, I thought it was a joke. When I clicked it and saw the page load, I thought it was an elaborate, nice-looking joke.

I never knew there was a separate WSJ for women. Shouldn't there be one for men, too? The irony of using such an institution as a platform to launch a cry for less-PC screening gives me a chuckle, to say the least. Why didn't this article appear in the NON-WOMENS' WSJ?





On a lighter note, it appears that the Women's WSJ has somewhat, shall we say, less-stringent editorial standards than the (can I say this?) real WSJ?

"I thanked him and we boarded the plan." (I thought they were getting on a plane. )

"We were now two hours into a four-in-a-half hour flight." (What's four-in-a-half, anyway? Wouldn't DTW-LAX be more like four-and-a-half hours? )

"I told him how we'd eaten with metal utensils moments in an airport diner before boarding the flight ..." (I get the impression she wanted us to tell Mr. Dove, the TSA Customer Service Supervisor, she had access to the metal utensils just moments before boarding the flight, and not that her encounter with the metal utensils had been for mere moments. "... moments before boarding..." then, should not be separated by "... in an airport diner..." Try: "...we'd eaten with metal utensils in an airport diner just moments before boarding the flight..." OK, so I'm picky about construction, but this is, after all, the WSJ, isn't it? Or is it? )




OK, back to reality. I hope there are more articles written about things like this. We all know that the TSA as it stands today is a mockery, and it only serves to make MOST of the flying public feel like it's safe to fly again. The feeling comes for the most part from the increased hassle they enounter in getting on an airplane. If it's tough for grandama or little Timmy, it must be too tough for those bad guys, right? Wrong!

Maybe if a few more... OK, a LOT more... of the flying public start to see how woefully inadequate these procedures with their ridiculous PC restrictions are, then maybe, jut maybe, we'll see some pressure to use procedures that make sense from a SECURITY perspective, and not just from an ACLU perspective.

 

[FN FAL]

That's the society I want to live in: Israel.

I can't wait for Main St. to resemble Jerusalem.

Perfect.

You can wait...I'll let you.

 

[ATL2CDG]

...when americans go abroad we are instructed to do as the locals do.....as much as possible...

Right. When I dated a girl in France, I spoke French, took the Metro, sipped coffee in a café, didn't make eye contact with strangers when walking down the street, b!tched about everything and chugged the best d@mn wine in the world at the dinner table. However, the French have been doing this (aside from the Metro, of course), essentially as a nation, for 1000 years. The French Republic is composed of mostly French, with the same ethnic, religious and social history. While French does have some immigration, many from formerly colonies, these people are able to integrate because of a relatively unified structure of the "French identity."

In America, the story is quite different. We are a nation of immigrants. In the ~500 years since the American continents were first explored and colonized by Western European nations, people of every color, religion, culture and society have come to our shores to help build this nation. When one says, "Act like an American!" you asking him to have a multiple personality disorder. From Chinatown to Charlestown, from Little Mexico to the Montana Rodeo, there is such a widespread and uniform mix of cultures, languages and races, that expecting an immigrant to conform to some idea of a "model American" is impossible. The sooner people realize that José, Abu, Mohammed and Nembeke are not going to turn into NASCAR-watching, Bud-drinking, cigarette smoking, SUV-driving reflections of Middle Americana the better off we'll all be.

 

[TonyC]

Even though I now support the FFDO program, I have to say this: Having a gun in the flight deck in a mid-flight bomb detenation isn't going to help anyone one bit.


If you, a presumed native-born English speaker, can't even speak English "appropreatly" [sic], how do you expect a non-national to do so? The fact remains that the United States does not have a federally-supported national langauge and as such, you're going to have a melting pot of English, Spanish, Farsi, a hundred other languages. Sorry; 'tis reality.

There's a huge difference between speaking the language, and writing the language. rvsm410 was making a valid point, which although might be clearer were the spelling and grammar perfect, is nonetheless discernable by an honest, open-minded reader.

If the 9/11 hijackings had been performed by 19 Portuguese men, we would tend to be suspicious of Portuguese-speaking men. We'd tend to be suspicious of Brazilians who speak Portuguese. Most people would not be able to discern the differences between Portuguese and Spanish, so we'd also tend to be suspicious of Spaniards, Mexicans, and Puerto Ricans. Does that mean that all of the above would be potential terrorists? NO. It means that if I'm a Puerto Rican and I don't want people around me to become terribly suspicious, I don't hang around the Lav and speak Spanish to my Puerto Rican buddies. It just makes good old common sense. If I want to make the people around me comfortable, if I want to fit in to the great Amercian melting pot, I do what I can to make everyone else feel comfortable. I speak English. If I'm in my living room with my Puerto Rican family, speaking Spanish makes nobody uncomfortable. When I'm boarding an airliner bound for a metropolis, it makes LOTS of people uncomfortable.


BTW, it's detonation.

 

[Snakum]

As is commonly known 'round these parts, I tend to get a weed up my arse when it comes to blatant, crude racism on the part of the supposedly educated professionals who frequent this message board, and further, while I was all for going into Afghanistan, I believe we should have stayed there and finished the job rather than rushing into Iraq. In my opinion, going into Iraq was a bone-head move and we are paying for it.

However ... in today's climate, and in recognition of the new kinds of danger the citizens of this country now face, I will never, ever, for the life of me, understand why little old white ladies are patted down while young, Middle Eastern males are allowed to board aircraft with a cheery "Have a nice flight." To me, this is the most illogical nonsense yet perpetrated in response to 9/11. The so-called 'security' provided by the gangster wannabes, pasty-faced overweight nerds, welfare moms, and unemployed housewives I see manning the TSA checkpoints in RDU/GSO/CLT is a joke which will leave only our enemies laughing after we suffer yet another attack here in America. If it wasn't so frightening ... it would be laughable. The absolute height of knee-jerk stupidity.

Much like the situation in Israel, I may not agree with the policies that got us into this mess, but since we're in the mess anyway, let's not let the PC public-opinioned, ACLU-loving, Kumbaya-singing, hairy under-armed crybabies allow a repeat of the tragedy in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania. How about this rule at airport check-ins:

(large sign at the intrance to the screening areas) "If you are a male or female of Middle-eastern descent between the ages of 1 and 100, or if you are married to, or traveling with, a person who meets this criteria, please be prepared to have your person, and all your baggage searched thoroughly. And if you don't like it ... don't come back."

Enough is enough!

Minh

 

[ATL2CDG]

... freedom and justice for all...
...all Americans...
...all white Americans...
...all white Americans who speak English...
...all white Americans who speak English and own property...
...all white Americans who speak English, own property and are Protestant Christians...

That sounds about right... Glad to see we're moving in the "right" direction.

Anybody seen my swastika armband and flag?

 

[Snakum]

I can understand your point, I really can. I respect, and can sympathize with, your opinion, and you know I'm not a racist. I've lived the majority of my life with ethnic minorities in various temples and retreat centers. It's just that the practical realities of our current situation require that we are a little more vigilant with respect to the obvious profile of a potential terrorist, in my humble opinion.

Course ... I could be wrong.

Minh

 

[ATL2CDG]

I would rather be detained for jaywalking than have a Middle Easterner detained for the color of his skin or the length of his beard.

But that's just me. I believe in universal human rights, not marginalized American rights.

And of course, I could be wrong, too.

 

[CitationLover]

I would rather be detained for jaywalking than have a Middle Easterner detained for the color of his skin or the length of his beard.

But that's just me. I believe in universal human rights, not marginalized American rights.

And of course, I could be wrong, too.

since when do human rights involve not being searched at an airport? cmon....has the aclu got us screwed up this much?

 

[Swede]

ARGH! We're not talking about a Gulag for anyone who is swarthy, simply identifying who is more likely than others to kill us. 100% of the 9/11 terrorists were middle-Eastern males. A bit of a trend... statistically significant. Statistics mean something. We don't target retirees for AIDS education, we target young adults and IV drug users, because statistically they are the ones who will likely get aids.

I don't think a bit of extra scrutiny on 20-something M.E. men will shred the constitution!

 

[ATL2CDG]

since when do human rights involve not being searched at an airport? cmon....has the aclu got us screwed up this much?

It's called due process. Initiating a search of an individual based solely on their race or religious is incredulous. Yes, 19 Muslims of Middle Eastern origin attacked our nation. However, there are MILLIONS of people meeting the same 'profile' that have never done a thing to hurt Americans or American interests. I would say odds favor that a random selection of Middle Eastern Muslims will yield more innocence than guilt.

How would you feel if you were pulled over and your vehicle searched by a local law enforcement authority based SOLELY on the fact that your automobile windows are tinted? I mean, we ALL know that criminals love tinted windows to conceal their devious activities while on the road. As such, ALL cars with tinted windows are suspects. I would imagine you'd be up in arms, suing every level of jurisdiction that you could. What makes the profiling of you as a suspect any less criminal than the other covered in this thread?

 

[FN FAL]

I would rather be detained for jaywalking than have a Middle Easterner detained for the color of his skin or the length of his beard.

I would rather you both be detained.