Terrorists are practicing....

[rumpletumbler]

El Al profiles very heavily. They have never had a hijacking. We could learn a lot from them.

 

[ATL2CDG]

I would rather you both be detained.

Heil FN FAL!

 

[johnpeace]

And yet, there are still people who think that pilots shouldn't be armed!

And people who think middle eastern males, 21-40 should not be singled out for more rigorous security scrutiny...and erosion of their 'civil rights'.

(I guess as Americans...it's important to protect the muslim extremist terrorist's *right* to train for a hijacking)

 

[TonyC]

Initiating a search of an individual based solely on their race or religious is incredulous.

(Typically only people can be incredulous - - things and activities are incredible.)

Initiating an UNWARRANTED search is illegal. When a person meeting the profile attempts to board an airplane, such a search IS WARRANTED, if we want to protect our skies.

Your example of pulling over cars with tinted windows bears no resemblance to this procedure. We're not advocating searching every person who meets a particular physical profile, regardless of where they are and what they're doing. We're not talking about stopping people on the street or as they walk through a crowded shopping mall. We're talking about people who are attempting to board airplanes. Last check of the constitution revealed no specific right to fly airplanes unencumbered by search.

If you want to travel on the airplane, prove you're not a risk to everyone else, and if you're similar to those who HAVE wreaked havoc on the industry and our nation, the burden of proof just got a little tougher. Fair? Nope. Reasonable? You bet.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

How did I miss this one?

It's going to be a shame if we get attacked in the same manner again, because we didn't want to racially profile.

Right or not, I have my eyes wide open around arabs anymore.

 

[inline]

... freedom and justice for all...
...all Americans...
...all white Americans...
...all white Americans who speak English...
...all white Americans who speak English and own property...
...all white Americans who speak English, own property and are Protestant Christians...

That sounds about right... Glad to see we're moving in the "right" direction.

Anybody seen my swastika armband and flag?

More PC bull$hit. When's the last time a white american hijacked an airliner and used it to slaughter innocents? We would be moving in the right direstion if Pres Bush would fire that pathetic Sec. of Transportation, Norm Mineta, a politically correct hack if ther ever was one. You think it's bad now? If Kerry gets in the White House he'll bring a hundred Norm Minetas.

That flag you're asking about? is it white? Go ahead and surrender. Not me.

 

[Tripower455]

I mean, we ALL know that criminals love tinted windows to conceal their devious activities while on the road.

Funny that you mentioned this.... I drove a full sized pickup for over 10 years. In all that time, I was never pulled over for no reason, and only pulled over twice for speeding. I've been driving a Formula Firebird for the last 3 years, and have been pulled over 4 times for absolutely no reason (usually get some BS reason from the cop, like the tag light is too dim...), other than the fact that I was in a "sporty" car. The reason for this is that the average person who drive these types of cars are young, aggressive drivers, so they DO profile based on the type of car.

 

[chawbein]

Back to the origional point....

Everyone just sat there and watched (what would have been) their impending doom. THAT is sad. I guess we haven't learned a goshdarned thing.

 

[mar]

Ask TonyC

When's the last time a white american hijacked an airliner and used it to slaughter innocents?

The last time I can think of was at FedEx. Nobody got "slaughtered" but it wasn't for lack of trying.

Regardless, give me and others who want it a national ID card. I'm tired of the whole stinking mess. Let everyone else get wanded.

 

[Tripower455]

The last time I can think of was at FedEx.

IIRC, he wasn't white..........

 

[rvsm410]

It's called due process. Initiating a search of an individual based solely on their race or religious is incredulous. Yes, 19 Muslims of Middle Eastern origin attacked our nation. However, there are MILLIONS of people meeting the same 'profile' that have never done a thing to hurt Americans or American interests. I would say odds favor that a random selection of Middle Eastern Muslims will yield more innocence than guilt.

How would you feel if you were pulled over and your vehicle searched by a local law enforcement authority based SOLELY on the fact that your automobile windows are tinted? I mean, we ALL know that criminals love tinted windows to conceal their devious activities while on the road. As such, ALL cars with tinted windows are suspects. I would imagine you'd be up in arms, suing every level of jurisdiction that you could. What makes the profiling of you as a suspect any less criminal than the other covered in this thread?

Good example: tinted windows......dont come to Florida...the cops do this ALL the time, in fact it is well known that if you have dark tinted windows, you better put them all down if you get pulled or expect a rough go of it with the cops....is this profiling?? yes of course it is, why? because many many law enforcement officers have been killed because they could not see who or what was going on behind that Tinted glass!!!...
How many attacks on our soil do you need to think out side the ACLU box????
How about if your wife, kids or family were on the next flight with 19 M.E. men on board decided at the LAV to put together that Plastic explosive? you know the material that only a Dog could recognize.....how many of you're loved ones do you need killed in the name of being PC by "Proven" NON-US CITIZENs before you would cry out for changes???

Did you loose someone in 9-11??? if you did maybe you feel different.....

 

[Snakum]

IIRC, he wasn't white..........

True. Auburn Calloway was an African-American, so he wasn't white. He was more of a medium umber, as I hear it.



Minh

 

[NuGuy]

How did I miss this one?


It's going to be a shame if we get attacked in the same manner again, because we didn't want to racially profile.

Right or not, I have my eyes wide open around arabs anymore.

If this kind of thing happens again, the resulting lurch to the "right" that the country will take will make post-9/11 America look like Berekley during a multicultural festival.

It will look like the movie "The Siege", except this time, Bruce Willis will get his way.

Nu

 

[Swede]

Here's whats scary... every component of a powerful bomb can easily walk right through a metal detector. At a bare minimum, you need the main charge, booster/detonator, and an ignition source. All of these can be made completely non-metallic.

Few people know that stable, military-grade liquid explosives exist. That liter of Scotch? Might be 5 pounds of a liquid fully as energetic as C4 or Semtex. And if the bad guys don't want to suicide, think how easy it would be to create a timer from a travel alarm.

TSA is a joke. Magnetometers are a farce. There have ALWAYS been glass-filled nylon edged weapons far more dangerous than box cutters available by mail-order. Strap one to your ankle, stroll right on board, start slitting throats.

I'm awed by people who want to sit back, relax, and let the federal govt protect us.

Profile, arm pilots, do whatever it takes. What's the BFD with profiling? So it takes the guy an extra 15 minutes to get to his plane? It's not like we are sticking a soldering iron up his behind, or raping his family in front of him, ala Saddam et al. It's a freaking WAR. What does it take for some people to understand this?

 

[RightPedal]

Here's whats scary... every component of a powerful bomb can easily walk right through a metal detector. At a bare minimum, you need the main charge, booster/detonator, and an ignition source. All of these can be made completely non-metallic.

Few people know that stable, military-grade liquid explosives exist. That liter of Scotch? Might be 5 pounds of a liquid fully as energetic as C4 or Semtex. And if the bad guys don't want to suicide, think how easy it would be to create a timer from a travel alarm.

TSA is a joke. Magnetometers are a farce. There have ALWAYS been glass-filled nylon edged weapons far more dangerous than box cutters available by mail-order. Strap one to your ankle, stroll right on board, start slitting throats.

I'm awed by people who want to sit back, relax, and let the federal govt protect us.

Profile, arm pilots, do whatever it takes. What's the BFD with profiling? So it takes the guy an extra 15 minutes to get to his plane? It's not like we are sticking a soldering iron up his behind, or raping his family in front of him, ala Saddam et al. It's a freaking WAR. What does it take for some people to understand this?

Well said I think.
I also beleive that all americans should be armed, trained and have a Permit. Not just to CCW but to let the system know that we WILL handle it if you don't. I know many, many Americans that carry everyday, and I am one of them. It's a big responsibility but it's the American thing to do and I don't care what anybody else thinks.
I PROFILE, WE ALL SHOULD.

 

[Ricky]

Gentlemen:
This is only my second post. I respectfully request relief from syntax and/or spelling, or any other breach of forum protocol.
I am Puertorican. My wife is originally from Wisconsin. When we travel, I sometimes look very suspicious (I don't shave when I'm on vacation). When stopped, questioned or even detained, I am GLAD to comply. Why?, it is a very small price to pay for the PRIVILEDGE of living in the greatest country on planet earth. I've seen enough this world to make this statement.
I believe if you question anybody with respect and professionalism, the individual questioned should not have any problem with the process. We got to stop this "HE-DON'T-LIKE-ME", so therefore you violated my human rights routine. The price of our way of life requires certain sacrifices.
Funny thing, thought. I make eye contact with individuals and smile, talk politely with crewmembers and joke around with my fellow passengers. I think most, if not all of them. are fine with me sitting among them.
I like the concept "If you don't like it, leave"
I bet there would be very few takers.
Ricky.
P.S. How did I do?

 

[TonyC]

Gentlemen:
This is only my second post. I respectfully request relief from syntax and/or spelling, or any other breach of forum protocol.
I am Puertorican. My wife is originally from Wisconsin. When we travel, I sometimes look very suspicious (I don't shave when I'm on vacation). When stopped, questioned or even detained, I am GLAD to comply. Why?, it is a very small price to pay for the PRIVILEDGE of living in the greatest country on planet earth. I've seen enough this world to make this statement.
I believe if you question anybody with respect and professionalism, the individual questioned should not have any problem with the process. We got to stop this "HE-DON'T-LIKE-ME", so therefore you violated my human rights routine. The price of our way of life requires certain sacrifices.
Funny thing, thought. I make eye contact with individuals and smile, talk politely with crewmembers and joke around with my fellow passengers. I think most, if not all of them. are fine with me sitting among them.
I like the concept "If you don't like it, leave"
I bet there would be very few takers.
Ricky.
P.S. How did I do?

Outstanding.

 

[RightPedal]

Gentlemen:
This is only my second post. I respectfully request relief from syntax and/or spelling, or any other breach of forum protocol.
I am Puertorican. My wife is originally from Wisconsin. When we travel, I sometimes look very suspicious (I don't shave when I'm on vacation). When stopped, questioned or even detained, I am GLAD to comply. Why?, it is a very small price to pay for the PRIVILEDGE of living in the greatest country on planet earth. I've seen enough this world to make this statement.
I believe if you question anybody with respect and professionalism, the individual questioned should not have any problem with the process. We got to stop this "HE-DON'T-LIKE-ME", so therefore you violated my human rights routine. The price of our way of life requires certain sacrifices.
Funny thing, thought. I make eye contact with individuals and smile, talk politely with crewmembers and joke around with my fellow passengers. I think most, if not all of them. are fine with me sitting among them.
I like the concept "If you don't like it, leave"
I bet there would be very few takers.
Ricky.
P.S. How did I do?[/QUOT

You did fine brother.
I'm an Alabamaian and a crop duster, so I have to deal with it everyday

 

[100LL... Again!]

atl2cdg or whatever-

You are either a flamebaiter or the dumbest human posting on this board.

You have turned a suggestion that in-depth screening of NON-US citizens from nations that are hostile to us is THE SAME as nazi-like racial profiling and discrimination.

You and your type are responsible for the 9/11 deaths.


You have no sense of perspective at all.

Maybe you will be on the aircraft that gets this new treatment from the terrorists.
It would be fitting, hmmmm??!!

Here is what will happen if these extremists successfully complete another attack:

1) Non-US arabs will be extensively screened.

2) You and your PC pseudo-intellectual buddies will get together over lattes and feel SO superior, and get really frustrated that the world is not being run the way you think it should.

3) Me and my right-wing budies will enjoy watching your undies get twisted into knots. The more upset you are, the happier we are.

One or two more attacks on this country and there will be nary a soul to listen to your lip-biting hand-wringing cries.

Enjoy the little remaining influence you have.

And don't bother the nice syrian man next to you as he quietly assembles what I'm sure is just his laptop.


By the way:

PLEASE do not think tha I am trying to change your mind. I would not try to educate you any more than I would try to educate a rock. You cannot be helped.

I am simply telling you how it is, and how it may be.
You will not understand or believe it, which is actually going to make it even more enjoyable when your side loses ground.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Oh, and Ricky gets my nomination for being an intelligent, reasonable person.

He can fly with me any day.

atl2cdg can scrub my lav.

 

[Snakum]

Leave it to 100LL to start REALLY slinging the mud and calling people names. It appears he can't disagree with someone without making it personal.

atl2cdg can scrub my lav.

And 100LL can toss my salad. So break out the chapstick, fatboy. Do you prefer jelly, or syrup with your a$$?

Putz!

Minh

 

[100LL... Again!]

My, my, snakum. Pot calling kettle black.

atl2whatever had it coming he/she started it by slinging the nazi crap in the direction of those of us who would like to do what is needed. Even you, yourself said we need to forget the PC sh!t. Or maybe it was 350driver. You two sound a lot alike, and I don't always bother to keep track.


When I'm not busy clubbing baby harp seals, I enjoy clubbing logic-challenged liberals on this bbs.

They are, sadly, unable to learn from the clubbing, but that in no way dimishines my enjoment.

It must really wear these fools out, repeating their assigned propaganda over and over in the face of unrelenting evidence to the contrary.

That way lies madness, my friend.

And kiss your a$$? You'll need to remove your head first.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

From what you want the pax to do, would you want them to do this in the situation: http://www.thespoonsexperience.com/archives/002535.php#002535?

Several higher profile websites have posted on this and I think we could get a positive message out for what the passengers can do to ensure the safety of the flight in an occasion like this.

 

[Sunnfun]

Welcome to the united paranoid states of america. Home of the not so free and scared. Apparently nobody on that flight had the guts to actually go up to these guys and ask them what the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** they were doing. The Air Marshalls apparently did what they were supposed to do: Blend in and not get noticed.

One or two more attacks on this country and there will be nary a soul to listen to your lip-biting hand-wringing cries.

Did you ever ask yourself why these guys are attacking this country?

PLEASE do not think tha I am trying to change your mind. I would not try to educate you any more than I would try to educate a rock. You cannot be helped.

Nice attitude. Don't discuss with me, just eat my arguments.

At least I know some people whose horizon extends a little further than just to the next block. So there should be hope.

Cheers,
Sun'n fun

 

[ThomasR]

Ricky

Write some more, I like it.

I don't think we should confuse searches at an airport with civil rights in the streets. If I were a terrorist aiming to get contriband (weapons) onboard an aircraft and I noticed that only mid eastern profiles were being search, and they will notice something like that, I'd plant a knife, gun, bomb or anything on a 98 year old white haired granny type lady with a cane and a shawl hobblilng along through the line and then aim for the old lady once in flight.

If you have ever had your pocket picked you know how easy it is to have things lifted out of your pockets and it is even easier to put things in.

Airport security has to search everything, every body and all the time. Or at least at statistical interval so as not to show a pattern.

Since when does a flight crew let a crowd of people congrigate anywhere on an airplane? Everybody stay in your seats.

 

[Crosscheck]

test, test.

 

[ATL2CDG]

A response...

100LL... Again!:

Ah, my favorite torch-wielding villager!

I'm sorry that you find my existence disgusting, my opinions inexcusable and my rhetoric inflammatory. While you may have lost hope in me, know that I continue to have faith in the greatness of mankind (including you). I've never claimed to have all the answers. I've never claimed to be right. I've done nothing but put forth my ideas and opinions on the various topics which fill our lives. I'm right on certain points and conversely, you're right on certain points as well. I don't claim to know it all or be enlightened; neither should you, my friend.

While my use of Nazi terminology may be a bit over the top, I still feel that some of the ideas expressed by some in this thread closely shadow the early banter of pre-war Nazism in Germany. Do I think that those expressing opinions of seeming racial intolerance and support the suspension of basic civil rights are the scum of the earth? No. I feel they are simply letting their emotions run wild and control their sense of logic. Unfortunately, for ALL mankind, it is much simpler to hate and destroy without thought than it is to show compassion and build based on wisdom; an example of this is your inference that I should personally die in a terrorist attack aboard a jetliner. Death to those who disagree, eh? I hope I never treat my daughter with the same callous disrespect for human life as you've displayed when we disagree over the music to which she can listen.

Plus, you'll be sorry to hear that I'm not upset, so you and your colleagues shouldn't rush to celebrate over my broken morale anytime soon. While I am passionate about my beliefs and strong in my convictions, I don't throw a temper-tantrum or cry myself to sleep when something doesn't "go my way." I'd rather focus that energy into a better form, whether it's doing my laundry and cleaning house, mowing and tending to the yard or furthering my studying of the things that shape my life. If you think that insulting me and my ideas will turn me into a blubbering pile of emotional goo, you're to be sadly disappointed. It would seem by your words that it's you who's becoming overly emotionally involved in this debate. "Unto to each his own."

To end, I am not your enemy. Just because we disagree on how various issues should be tackled does not mean that I'm a threat to you. Instead, we collectively should despise those heartless, barbaric criminals that killed our people and threaten our way of life. You have your opinion. I have mine. Ultimately, if you’ll cast off your blood-colored glasses, you'll see we have the same goals - peace, freedom and prosperity for ALL people. By mounting your efforts against an unlikely ally, you risk to jeopardize the mission. Let's both try to take a few deep breaths and keep our eye on the ball.

 

[FN FAL]

Back to the origional point....

Everyone just sat there and watched (what would have been) their impending doom. THAT is sad. I guess we haven't learned a goshdarned thing.

You said it...sitting there like a bunch of sheepy democrats going..."look dude, we're not your enemy, we are your friends!"

 

[ATL2CDG]

Violence... American as apple pie!

You said it...sitting there like a bunch of sheepy democrats going..."look dude, we're not your enemy, we are your friend!"

Of course. This was a Democrat only flight. Democrats have no sense of self-preservation and no idea of how to wage hand-to-hand combat.

If the FAMs sat on their arses, why would you expect unarmed civilians to do anything? Civilians attacking and subduing ethnic minorities without just cause mid-flight is NOT the solution to our problems.

 

[FN FAL]

If the FAMs sat on their arses, why would you expect unarmed civilians to do anything? Civilians attacking and subduing ethnic minorities without just cause mid-flight is NOT the solution to our problems

Uhhhhh, did you ever think that the FAMs might have been "intelligence" gathering? This is bigger than some dumb kunt from the paper realizing some slope was in the bathroom playing with his egg mc-muffin.