SWAPA wins grievance with company

[canyonblue]

I wonder how retro will be calculated....

The same way it has always been, off of your SWA W2. I don't see the problem here.

 

[dicko]

The same way it has always been, off of your SWA W2. I don't see the problem here.

The fact that you don't see a problem isn't surprising. That nice man in Cleveland thought it was normal to keep three women as slaves for a decade. It's called normalized deviance. I'm sure that they teach you about it in CRM class, right after the GPWS and CFIT lectures that some of you must have slept through I love Albuquerque this time of year. Don't you ......

SWA has around 8000 pilots generating income for them. That's been the case for some time.

 

[PCL_128]

Ole PCL veers near some truth but not enuf.

PCL says GK briefed the MEC, the MC, the ALPA staff, etc. That was on July 14, '11, before ALPA signed the agreement with SWA which had the pay, the capt seats, the fence, the furlough protections, etc. We got the email announcing the agreement on July 16.

PCL says "some" of the MEC didn't know what to make of GK's briefing. Well, they decided to ignore their confusion and instead of being honest and letting people make their own determination, the ATL council sent out an email telling everyone "there's absolutely nothing to worry about". That's about the time our EVP was advising the MEC they had to vote no cuz the pilots couldn't be trusted to make the decision.

Our ALPA "leaders" had everybody unsure of which way to turn. People knew there was more to the story but couldn't get straight answers from anybody.

But the claim that the pilots were "adamantly opposed all along" isn't true. In fact the MCO pilots got a briefing by the MC right after they reached the agreement, and the pilots there passed a resolution trying to get the entire MEC to allow a pilot vote. A guy at that meeting sent me some notes he took. The MC was asked about the risks and said ALPA lawyers had said the courts would not force SWA to integrate, said GK had discussed not integrating, had referred to the fate of Muse/Transtar guys. That stuff got buried afterwards cuz it was only heard at MCO.

PCL says "some" of the MEC thought GKs briefing was vague. Our Comm Chair was there and he didn't think it was vague. Neither did the MC, who called it a "game changer" and said the package didn't make sense without that briefing. They tried to publish GK's remarks but "some" of the MEC wouldn't let them. At the recall meeting for those reps in Sept we learned that the lawyers had advised them to publish the info but the MEC ignored that. Pilots=Mushrooms.

I was looking back at those ALPA emails and found a little tidbit buried in an eWeakly from Aug 20, '11, right after the MEC torpedoed the deal by not allowing us to vote. The Merger chairman explained the process to that point. ALPA and SWAPA can't get close to a deal, so SWA steps in with what he called a "comprehensive package". ALPA rejects it. SWA and ALPA keep negotiating. ALPA accepts that deal.

But a few weeks later ALPA denies the pilots a vote on that deal, the deal ALPA had already accepted, and SWA pulls the offer.

After that, GK publicized the remarks he'd made to the MEC weeks earlier, and you bet the pilots were scared. Apparently the MEC was "ruled by fear" too, cuz the entire MEC voted unanimously for a far worse deal than they had just shot down by 7-1, and some of them ran to SWA as fast as they could. Maybe they were just stupid and dishonest.

So ALPA gets three offers from SWA and only lets the pilots vote on the last, worst one when it's a "take it or leave it" deal. ALPA tells us, vote no and you're voting to maybe end your career, vote yes and you integrate. Nice work, ALPA.

So many lies, it's not even worth addressing. Believe whatever makes you feel better.

 

[madjack]

Nice retort

 

[Mk3tm]

So many lies, it's not even worth addressing. Believe whatever makes you feel better.

There's not a lie in anything I've posted.

You've got some nerve calling AT pilots cowards for taking ALPA's recommendation. If JB votes ALPA in I hope they get an organization led with more character than that.

 

[Just thinking]

Here we are.... years later and people are still blaming the faceless "ALPA".
ALPA is nothing more than a tool that is an available resource for the PILOTS that are represented by PILOTS that are voted into a position. Those pilots are spineless pukes that have to hide behind an attorney before they say anything to their constituents.... it is not ALPA's fault. If those spineless pukes purposely restrict the factual information from the pilot group, it is not ALPA's fault. If your representatives waste your money with boon-doggle trips it is not ALPA's fault.

The fault lies with the pilots not taking an active role in the governance of their career. If you can't bother yourself with taking the time to vote, to educate yourself about the issues, to babysit the budget, to review the notes from the meetings and to hold those duly elected representative accountable for their actions..... you are along for the ride.

In house or out house union..... it does not matter..... your fellow pilots are the ones that are going to screw you over. Trips to France for ICAO conference. Golf outings while on "official business". Lavish dinners expensed to the pilot group. Abuse of scheduling loop holes to earn way more than your peers for doing less work.

Jet Blue pilots.......Use ALPA as a nanny for your local council and MEC. Anytime you feel something is being brushed under the rug, give the national office a call.

When it comes time to negotiate a integration of lists, remember that your "trusted" representatives are the ones that you have to watch out for with your future. Ask any FAT pilot if they would do anything differently. Learn from our mistakes. This is not unique to our situation. Every pilot group out there deals with the same issues.

We got screwed by our fellow pilots...... the MEC, LEC, MC...... all of them are complicit in their failure.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Ty Webb]

Here we are.... years later and people are still blaming the faceless "ALPA".
ALPA is nothing more than a tool that is an available resource for the PILOTS that are represented by PILOTS that are voted into a position. Those pilots are spineless pukes that have to hide behind an attorney before they say anything to their constituents.... it is not ALPA's fault. If those spineless pukes purposely restrict the factual information from the pilot group, it is not ALPA's fault. If your representatives waste your money with boon-doggle trips it is not ALPA's fault.

The fault lies with the pilots not taking an active role in the governance of their career. If you can't bother yourself with taking the time to vote, to educate yourself about the issues, to babysit the budget, to review the notes from the meetings and to hold those duly elected representative accountable for their actions..... you are along for the ride.

In house or out house union..... it does not matter..... your fellow pilots are the ones that are going to screw you over. Trips to France for ICAO conference. Golf outings while on "official business". Lavish dinners expensed to the pilot group. Abuse of scheduling loop holes to earn way more than your peers for doing less work.

Jet Blue pilots.......Use ALPA as a nanny for your local council and MEC. Anytime you feel something is being brushed under the rug, give the national office a call.

When it comes time to negotiate a integration of lists, remember that your "trusted" representatives are the ones that you have to watch out for with your future. Ask any FAT pilot if they would do anything differently. Learn from our mistakes. This is not unique to our situation. Every pilot group out there deals with the same issues.

We got screwed by our fellow pilots...... the MEC, LEC, MC...... all of them are complicit in their failure.

Best of luck to you.

Well said. I'm going to start a new pilot union called SCAPE-GOAT

Strategic Coalition of Airline Pilots - Enabling Gonadless Air Trannies

Sign up cards and bag tags will be in your V-files next week.

 

[redflyer65]

Sorry Ty.

You can't have BAG tags if your Gonadless.

 

[ATLplt]

Watch SWA and JetBlue merge after they unionize. I wonder if the AirTran folks get the shaft again or if Gary will protect "his guys", regardless of their pedigree...

 

[Ty Webb]

Watch SWA and JetBlue merge after they unionize. I wonder if the AirTran folks get the shaft again or if Gary will protect "his guys", regardless of their pedigree...

Well, if the last episode was entitled "The Flintstones buy the Jetsons", what would a JB purchase be called?

Inquiring minds, and all. . . . . .

 

[humveedriver]

Well, if the last episode was entitled "The Flintstones buy the Jetsons", what would a JB purchase be called?

Inquiring minds, and all. . . . . .

Duck Dynasty buys Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

 

[canyonblue]

Well, if the last episode was entitled "The Flintstones buy the Jetsons".........

I was told it was "The Mod Squad bought Sanford and Son".

 

[ATLplt]

I was told it was "The Mod Squad bought Sanford and Son".

You were told wrong.

 

[RLAblows]

I was told it was "The Mod Squad bought Sanford and Son".

racist! Where's your sensitivity awareness?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Yes, I do. And I can tell you that when management decides to go that route, you can't keep acting like things haven't changed. When their tactics change, yours need to as well. That means picketing, billboards, radio ads, etc. It's the only way to build leverage when the RLA is stacked against you.

You guys need to listen to this guy. Airtran almost had a contract in 7 years with this and other gems. SWAPA should invite him out to Dallas to pick his brain on pilot negotiations or there will never be a new contract!