SWAPA wins grievance with company

[redflyer65]

I'm not going anywhere either JT.

And I won't sit here and say you got a great deal or that SW hasn't upgraded 800 in a year. Maybe they have but in the end, the old clich? 'it is what it is' comes to mind.

I wasn't happy when this deal was announced but I'm way beyond that now. I still like the way our future looks. Eternal optimist maybe.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

It is a seat grab plain and simple. Promised to SWAPA by gk. When has SWA ever upgraded almost 800 pilots in two years with little to no growth..... FLATTISH?!

Net growth for hulls will be -20 or more for next year. They will probably have the bid for the seat with a training date to be determined. All the seats for the next couple of years will be "spoken" for and there will be a lull of vacancies as soon as 2015 comes around. Sorry FAT BOYS..... You are not RSW and gk takes care of his boys.

It will be comical to hear the bitching and moaning after a couple of years of perpetual reserve. When the vacancies do come available they will be filled by the uber senior FAT pilots, keeping the RSW boys on reserve even longer.

You should hear the "RSW" pilots that were hired in 2007-2008 as well as the 2010 pilots complain because the junior FAT pilots have not been forced over the partition to "improve" their quality of life by standing on their necks to get a better view.

Take the opportunity to let them know that they are free to leave anytime they want to and big airlines are hiring. be careful what you ask for.... you just may get it.

There's the key word for you....

 

[bluesideup1]

"You have resumes out yet? I hear Delta might be hiring. Maybe you would be happy there"...........

Not saying that I am not happy here. People have been decent to work with and in time you will see SWA adopt more procedures and policies that will resemble more of the AT operations. (Latest message to the field...... operations agents being at the gate 45 minutes prior to push, doors closing 5 prior to push, greater sense of urgency.) I also will raise the BS flag when there are those of you that are standing too close to see the obvious.

No desire to start over again.... even with the gracious three year seniority loss instead of the three and a half year seniority loss that we were so astutely able to negotiate.

Just don't ask me to shed any tears for those that are "less fortunate" with the deal. Junior RSW captains on reserve for the next five + years. RSW pilots hired 2006-2008 or the 2010 hires complaining about not moving up quickly enough. You will have those that will depart the pattern for their former carrier that they were furloughed from. Others because the upgrade time is too daunting. I will be long retired before I get the chance to see the left seat again.

I am just pointing out some factual information that demonstrates the level of absurdity to the seat grab.

Name one time when SWA upgraded almost 800 captains in a two year period when you had a net loss of hulls in the fleet? How do you explain it?

Name one time when your numbers were so far off you don't even know what you are talking about. Please show me how Southwest has upgraded 800 captains in two years. Considering that AT 737 just barely started coming over and as of last month there were only about 400 AT guys even on property. So please tell me how we grabbed your seats when the vast majority of your seats are not even over here yet?

 

[scarlet]

It should read, upgrade in 2014 and be on reserve till 2024 in OAK.

So did you really win? Its been what over 3 years without paying SW pilots Cpt pay and leaving the A/C at AT, charging for bags, lower pay=SMART. Sorry SW pilots you lost that pay raise for almost 4 years. So now you can upgrade before the AT guys and enjoy reserve, vacation bid at the bottom.

But don't worry, more senior people coming over this year. Down Down Down your bidding goes.

Jut my opinion...

 

[dicko]

It depends on how the company does with the transitioning (i.e. how many they can get done this year). And in any case, the seats will be open to all Jan 1, 2015. Every upgrade after that date is probably going to be a FAT guy for quite a while.

Bubba

They're going to be busy in that training center - They will have to train 800 AirTran transitions in the last 4 months of the year. Plus the upgrades, plus any new hires.

Sound plan.

 

[SWA Bubba]

They're going to be busy in that training center - They will have to train 800 AirTran transitions in the last 4 months of the year. Plus the upgrades, plus any new hires.

Sound plan.

I agree. It almost sounds like a plan that a pilot might come up with!

Bubba

 

[CptMurf]

Yes, such a great "culture" you guys HAD there.

Fixed it for you

 

[Mk3tm]

You can't grieve something that you already gave away due to cowardice.

No, ALPA guided that debacle right over the cliff and treated the pilots like mushrooms. The 850 AT capts would be keeping those seats thru it all, and at SWA rates, but no.

Nice going!

 

[FIREMAN]

No, ALPA guided that debacle right over the cliff and treated the pilots like mushrooms. The 850 AT capts would be keeping those seats thru it all, and at SWA rates, but no.

Nice going!

Do you really believe SLI-1 would have unfolded the way it was written? Very little of SLI-2 has gone as voted on. Both were written with loopholes designed to "capture" captain seats.

 

[IBNAV8R]

You can't grieve something that you already gave away due to cowardice.

Can you explain that to the USAPA types?

 

[Mk3tm]

Do you really believe SLI-1 would have unfolded the way it was written? Very little of SLI-2 has gone as voted on. Both were written with loopholes designed to "capture" captain seats.

Well, the capt seat thing was a major part of ALPA's argument in the DRC arb. ALPA explained to the arbitrator that the capt seats, along with the 10 yr ATL fence and the SWA pay, were the heart of the first SLI agreement. ALPA explained how the capt slots would have stayed with the pilots to which they were attached even if the 717 went away and the capt crossed to SWA to be a 73 capt. That's how you end up with the arbitrator ruling that "all these remedies you're asking for now you had in SLI1 but your MEC didn't let the pilots vote on it".

So, I'm just taking ALPA's word for it. The lawyer who represented us in the DRC was Katz, the merger counsel from the SLI negotiation, so he's got knowledge.

Hey, that's prob why the ATL capt rep in July/Aug '11 was running around saying "the MEC has to vote this down cuz if it goes out to the pilots for a vote, it'll pass". She was right.

 

[PCL_128]

All of the evidence was that the first agreement would have failed significantly. Email records, attendance at the meeting, phone calls records, etc. Get over it.

 

[FIREMAN]

Well, the capt seat thing was a major part of ALPA's argument in the DRC arb. ALPA explained to the arbitrator that the capt seats, along with the 10 yr ATL fence and the SWA pay, were the heart of the first SLI agreement. ALPA explained how the capt slots would have stayed with the pilots to which they were attached even if the 717 went away and the capt crossed to SWA to be a 73 capt. That's how you end up with the arbitrator ruling that "all these remedies you're asking for now you had in SLI1 but your MEC didn't let the pilots vote on it".

So, I'm just taking ALPA's word for it. The lawyer who represented us in the DRC was Katz, the merger counsel from the SLI negotiation, so he's got knowledge.

Hey, that's prob why the ATL capt rep in July/Aug '11 was running around saying "the MEC has to vote this down cuz if it goes out to the pilots for a vote, it'll pass". She was right.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[HowardBorden]

All of the evidence was that the first agreement would have failed significantly. Email records, attendance at the meeting, phone calls records, etc. Get over it.

Does that evidence come from the exact same group of people that you claim demanded AIP1 killed without a vote before they demanded they should have been allowed a vote on AIP1?

 

[SWA Bubba]

All of the evidence was that the first agreement would have failed significantly. Email records, attendance at the meeting, phone calls records, etc. Get over it.

Too bad. If you had let it go to a vote, and it had failed like you now say it would have, then you would have gotten the arbitration that you wanted all along. That's what GK's "hardball" was all about--from the start, he made it clear that he wanted all the pilots to vote.

Bubba