SWAPA wins grievance with company

[humveedriver]

I'm trying to figure out what the latest message from the SWAPA president is saying. Has any news trickled over to the AT side? Essentially it says SWA is going to maintain a 5.75 Captain to aircraft ratio. That any SWA FO who is senior to a FAT now SWA Captain will be pay protected. I gather there will be some front loading of OSW FOs to upgrade class. But honestly I can't tell what this means to the FATs after 1 Jan.

 

[redflyer65]

I think it just holds the ratio of CA upgrades that SWAPA expected with the 737 conversion. Since it recently became obvious that they would not make the conversion timeline, this was the resolution.

For FAT after Jan1? I see a front loading of CA on the SW side (as you said), then it's fair game after Jan 1 on who can hold it. When there's another CA vacancy.

 

[dicko]

a FAT now SWA Captain.

This species does not exist.

 

[humveedriver]

The more I dwell on it. The more I think SWA just gave SWAPA a placebo to make them happy. It's totally possible that with expansion at DAL, HOU and now DCA, that SWA will do this by cutting service elsewhere. But I don't think it's likely. So maybe front loading won't be that much of a speed bump after all.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm trying to figure out what the latest message from the SWAPA president is saying.

He's just pulling a Steve Chase and bragging about "capturing" captain seats again. The company is going to front-load captain upgrades to make sure that none of our guys get the seats that the SWA FOs feel that they're entitled to. Another raping of the AirTran pilots. It's become routine by now.

 

[Flyer1015]

He's just pulling a Steve Chase and bragging about "capturing" captain seats again. The company is going to front-load captain upgrades to make sure that none of our guys get the seats that the SWA FOs feel that they're entitled to. Another raping of the AirTran pilots. It's become routine by now.

File a grievance with ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

File a grievance with ALPA.

You can't grieve something that you already gave away due to cowardice.

 

[dicko]

Are they actually going to upgrade them and then have them sit in the right seat ? Or are they just paying bypass pay until the planes arrive ? The latter will mean that the seats will be open to all after 2015.

 

[Dash Power]

You can't grieve something that you already gave away due to cowardice.

You are the one who burned bridges so bad that you feel you have to quit.

Careful throwing that coward word around in your glass house.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Are they actually going to upgrade them and then have them sit in the right seat ? Or are they just paying bypass pay until the planes arrive ? The latter will mean that the seats will be open to all after 2015.

It depends on how the company does with the transitioning (i.e. how many they can get done this year). And in any case, the seats will be open to all Jan 1, 2015. Every upgrade after that date is probably going to be a FAT guy for quite a while.

Bubba

 

[Just thinking]

It is a seat grab plain and simple. Promised to SWAPA by gk. When has SWA ever upgraded almost 800 pilots in two years with little to no growth..... FLATTISH?!

Net growth for hulls will be -20 or more for next year. They will probably have the bid for the seat with a training date to be determined. All the seats for the next couple of years will be "spoken" for and there will be a lull of vacancies as soon as 2015 comes around. Sorry FAT BOYS..... You are not RSW and gk takes care of his boys.

It will be comical to hear the bitching and moaning after a couple of years of perpetual reserve. When the vacancies do come available they will be filled by the uber senior FAT pilots, keeping the RSW boys on reserve even longer.

You should hear the "RSW" pilots that were hired in 2007-2008 as well as the 2010 pilots complain because the junior FAT pilots have not been forced over the partition to "improve" their quality of life by standing on their necks to get a better view.

Take the opportunity to let them know that they are free to leave anytime they want to and big airlines are hiring. be careful what you ask for.... you just may get it.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, such a great "culture" you guys have there.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Seat Grab??? Haa. Kinda like when a kid gives away his candy, then when someone else eats it he wants it back. The only reason there are so many upgrade classes right now is because you guys said yes to a deal that gave them away!! Now you are shocked that they are training guys?

I know, I know. GK held a gun to your head. Blah, Blah, Blah.

 

[redflyer65]

Take the opportunity to let them know that they are free to leave anytime they want to and big airlines are hiring. be careful what you ask for.... you just may get it.

As are you my friend.

You have resumes out yet? I hear Delta might be hiring. Maybe you would be happy there.

 

[Just thinking]

"You have resumes out yet? I hear Delta might be hiring. Maybe you would be happy there"...........

Not saying that I am not happy here. People have been decent to work with and in time you will see SWA adopt more procedures and policies that will resemble more of the AT operations. (Latest message to the field...... operations agents being at the gate 45 minutes prior to push, doors closing 5 prior to push, greater sense of urgency.) I also will raise the BS flag when there are those of you that are standing too close to see the obvious.

No desire to start over again.... even with the gracious three year seniority loss instead of the three and a half year seniority loss that we were so astutely able to negotiate.

Just don't ask me to shed any tears for those that are "less fortunate" with the deal. Junior RSW captains on reserve for the next five + years. RSW pilots hired 2006-2008 or the 2010 hires complaining about not moving up quickly enough. You will have those that will depart the pattern for their former carrier that they were furloughed from. Others because the upgrade time is too daunting. I will be long retired before I get the chance to see the left seat again.

I am just pointing out some factual information that demonstrates the level of absurdity to the seat grab.

Name one time when SWA upgraded almost 800 captains in a two year period when you had a net loss of hulls in the fleet? How do you explain it?

 

[redflyer65]

I'm not going anywhere either JT.

And I won't sit here and say you got a great deal or that SW hasn't upgraded 800 in a year. Maybe they have but in the end, the old clich? 'it is what it is' comes to mind.

I wasn't happy when this deal was announced but I'm way beyond that now. I still like the way our future looks. Eternal optimist maybe.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

It is a seat grab plain and simple. Promised to SWAPA by gk. When has SWA ever upgraded almost 800 pilots in two years with little to no growth..... FLATTISH?!

Net growth for hulls will be -20 or more for next year. They will probably have the bid for the seat with a training date to be determined. All the seats for the next couple of years will be "spoken" for and there will be a lull of vacancies as soon as 2015 comes around. Sorry FAT BOYS..... You are not RSW and gk takes care of his boys.

It will be comical to hear the bitching and moaning after a couple of years of perpetual reserve. When the vacancies do come available they will be filled by the uber senior FAT pilots, keeping the RSW boys on reserve even longer.

You should hear the "RSW" pilots that were hired in 2007-2008 as well as the 2010 pilots complain because the junior FAT pilots have not been forced over the partition to "improve" their quality of life by standing on their necks to get a better view.

Take the opportunity to let them know that they are free to leave anytime they want to and big airlines are hiring. be careful what you ask for.... you just may get it.

There's the key word for you....

 

[bluesideup1]

"You have resumes out yet? I hear Delta might be hiring. Maybe you would be happy there"...........

Not saying that I am not happy here. People have been decent to work with and in time you will see SWA adopt more procedures and policies that will resemble more of the AT operations. (Latest message to the field...... operations agents being at the gate 45 minutes prior to push, doors closing 5 prior to push, greater sense of urgency.) I also will raise the BS flag when there are those of you that are standing too close to see the obvious.

No desire to start over again.... even with the gracious three year seniority loss instead of the three and a half year seniority loss that we were so astutely able to negotiate.

Just don't ask me to shed any tears for those that are "less fortunate" with the deal. Junior RSW captains on reserve for the next five + years. RSW pilots hired 2006-2008 or the 2010 hires complaining about not moving up quickly enough. You will have those that will depart the pattern for their former carrier that they were furloughed from. Others because the upgrade time is too daunting. I will be long retired before I get the chance to see the left seat again.

I am just pointing out some factual information that demonstrates the level of absurdity to the seat grab.

Name one time when SWA upgraded almost 800 captains in a two year period when you had a net loss of hulls in the fleet? How do you explain it?

Name one time when your numbers were so far off you don't even know what you are talking about. Please show me how Southwest has upgraded 800 captains in two years. Considering that AT 737 just barely started coming over and as of last month there were only about 400 AT guys even on property. So please tell me how we grabbed your seats when the vast majority of your seats are not even over here yet?

 

[scarlet]

It should read, upgrade in 2014 and be on reserve till 2024 in OAK.

So did you really win? Its been what over 3 years without paying SW pilots Cpt pay and leaving the A/C at AT, charging for bags, lower pay=SMART. Sorry SW pilots you lost that pay raise for almost 4 years. So now you can upgrade before the AT guys and enjoy reserve, vacation bid at the bottom.

But don't worry, more senior people coming over this year. Down Down Down your bidding goes.

Jut my opinion...

 

[dicko]

It depends on how the company does with the transitioning (i.e. how many they can get done this year). And in any case, the seats will be open to all Jan 1, 2015. Every upgrade after that date is probably going to be a FAT guy for quite a while.

Bubba

They're going to be busy in that training center - They will have to train 800 AirTran transitions in the last 4 months of the year. Plus the upgrades, plus any new hires.

Sound plan.