Swapa/swa Ta

[radarlove]

Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here..

Mediators don't keep anything in or out of a contract, you're confusing the term mediator with arbitrator.

In your guys' situation, there is nothing for an arbitrator to do, since it sounds like there is nothing yet in your contract that addresses this stuff.

Mediators, as many of us have become painfully aware, have zero real power. They're good at allowing the company to drag out negotiations, though.

Maybe the new appointee to the NMB will make some difference.

Has LUV ever gone into mediation? I don't think you guys know what really happens. talk to some Airtran folks.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

Not sure if we ever went to mediation. Thank you for the correction though. Just wanted to emphasize that codeshare is already in our contract. Seems to me once codeshare is in a contract it appears you have herpes. Here to stay. Hopefully we will have language to control and place hard limits on it. To be continued...

 

[radarlove]

Everyone seems to think that mediators are some sort of savior, really they're just one of the many pools of quicksand put in place by the government before unions are allowed to take job action. I don't consider mediators to be labor's friend.

Think about this, a normal union can strike any time its contract has expired. Of course a company can lock out the workers too.

But in our case, our contracts never expire (there goes that option), we have to be "released" by a mediator before we can take a job action, and of course, there's always the presidential board that can put a stop to a job action in a railroad or airline. I'm probably missing some other "circuit-breaker" in there somewhere.

Even arbitrators, the union's old friend seem to have gone off the deep end, think of the Alaska contract fiasco, or the AWA/USAir seniority list abortion.

I guess it's all for the best, strikes/job actions/lockouts aren't good for anybody, but still, the process certainly isn't stacked in our favor.

I know LUV isn't ALPA, but over here, ALPA doesn't seem to ever take a hard stance.

 

[radarlove]

I forgot the "cooling off period", and isn't there some sort of congressional intervention as well?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here.

Mediation is not the "next step" if a contract is voted down. You just go back and negotiate some more. Mediation is what happens when the company and the union feel they aren't getting anywhere at the table.

Next time you fly, ask one of your F/A's what happened when they voted their contract down a few short years ago (also why Jim Parker isn't the CEO anymore)....or ask a mechanic.

Yes...the SWA Pilots have been in mediation in the past...but it has been many years since that happened.

Additionally, a large majority of our pilots have never been through a section 6, so there is some angst there among the "rookies", combined with the real threat in codeshare.

 

[radarlove]

that's the most common outcome of a failed TA, I think. The pilots say "Not good enough'', the company says, "We were being truthful, that's the best we can do...", and one of the two calls in a mediator to start things back up again.

But that means an instant delay of at least a year or probably two. That's why you really want your NC to bring you something the pilots can vote yes to, just ask Airtran.

 

[murano]

It's official. We now have a T/A. BoD members will see it on March 24th. If they approve it will be sent out to the membership.

PS: No codeshare!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Call the PD and ask them. I had heard they were all farmed out to different HDQ positions which if true, is not a good sign.

Last time I was at HQ, it was about 2 weeks ago, they were remodeling. The place is undergoing a facelift. The rumors will begin to fly when they get the place back up and running, as much as the actual room being up and running.

I have had numerous conversations with a couple of CP's about the whole swimming/having to reinterview issue. The ones I have talked to agree that it isn't the right way to do business, for what its worth.

Dick

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Mediation is not the "next step" if a contract is voted down. You just go back and negotiate some more. Mediation is what happens when the company and the union feel they aren't getting anywhere at the table.

Next time you fly, ask one of your F/A's what happened when they voted their contract down a few short years ago (also why Jim Parker isn't the CEO anymore)....or ask a mechanic.

Yes...the SWA Pilots have been in mediation in the past...but it has been many years since that happened.

Additionally, a large majority of our pilots have never been through a section 6, so there is some angst there among the "rookies", combined with the real threat in codeshare.

Not flamin', just curious Tejas - what section 6 experience do you have - I see you are a frequent poster, so just wondering?

 

[radarlove]

I don't want to pile on, but "You just go back and negotiate some more" does not really fit into the framework of negotiations...if both NCs come to a final agreement, then the negotiations are over.

If you could just go back and get that last shiny penny that you think got left behind, there would never be an end to negotiations.

A failing vote for a T.A. is a lot more traumatic than a quick run back to the negotiating table.

Are you saying that your flight attendants actually turned down a T.A.? I never heard of that happening, was it more than 10 years ago?